Elizabeth Mowbray and Sir Richard Brackenbury's daughter

Sorry, I don't know if this is common knowledge but I've never come across it myself (I think). I was quite surprised to find out that Elizabeth Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk took Sir Robert Brackenbury's daughter under her wing after Bosworth - to the point of being mentioned in Elizabeth Brackenbury's will as 'my speciall goode lady' and 'my lady's grace of Norfolk, to whome I am most specially bounde'. If I understand correctly, she and her chaplain, Dr. Thomas Cosyn, were beneficiaries of the will, and Thomas Cosyn was also one of the executors (I think 'Sir Robert Sowthwell, knyght' is also a Mowbray connection, as people named Southwell had served the Dukes of Norfolk for decades).

You can find the will by searching for 'Elizabeth Brackenbury' here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=OpfkUi1UadMC

Wonder why? Was it just a random act of sympathy? Is it too much of a leap to wonder if taking the daughter of one of Richard's biggest supporters under her protection might mean Elizabeth was pro-Richard herself...?

(Note: the editor in the above book says Elizabeth Brackenbury 'found shelter under the wing of the Howards', but the Duchess in the will is definitely Elizabeth *Mowbray*. For one thing, Thomas Cosyn was Elizabeth Mowbray's chaplain. For another, the Howards weren't even Dukes of Norfolk in 1504.)

Sorry, I have always catch myself mistyping Roberts as Richards... wonder why ;)


--- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't know if this is common knowledge but I've never come across it myself (I think). I was quite surprised to find out that Elizabeth Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk took Sir Robert Brackenbury's daughter under her wing after Bosworth - to the point of being mentioned in Elizabeth Brackenbury's will as 'my speciall goode lady' and 'my lady's grace of Norfolk, to whome I am most specially bounde'. If I understand correctly, she and her chaplain, Dr. Thomas Cosyn, were beneficiaries of the will, and Thomas Cosyn was also one of the executors (I think 'Sir Robert Sowthwell, knyght' is also a Mowbray connection, as people named Southwell had served the Dukes of Norfolk for decades).
>
> You can find the will by searching for 'Elizabeth Brackenbury' here:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=OpfkUi1UadMC
>
> Wonder why? Was it just a random act of sympathy? Is it too much of a leap to wonder if taking the daughter of one of Richard's biggest supporters under her protection might mean Elizabeth was pro-Richard herself...?
>
> (Note: the editor in the above book says Elizabeth Brackenbury 'found shelter under the wing of the Howards', but the Duchess in the will is definitely Elizabeth *Mowbray*. For one thing, Thomas Cosyn was Elizabeth Mowbray's chaplain. For another, the Howards weren't even Dukes of Norfolk in 1504.)
>

On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.


From: pansydobersby <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Monday, 5 August 2013, 7:49
Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean

 
Sorry, I have always catch myself mistyping Roberts as Richards... wonder why ;)

--- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't know if this is common knowledge but I've never come across it myself (I think). I was quite surprised to find out that Elizabeth Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk took Sir Robert Brackenbury's daughter under her wing after Bosworth - to the point of being mentioned in Elizabeth Brackenbury's will as 'my speciall goode lady' and 'my lady's grace of Norfolk, to whome I am most specially bounde'. If I understand correctly, she and her chaplain, Dr. Thomas Cosyn, were beneficiaries of the will, and Thomas Cosyn was also one of the executors (I think 'Sir Robert Sowthwell, knyght' is also a Mowbray connection, as people named Southwell had served the Dukes of Norfolk for decades).
>
> You can find the will by searching for 'Elizabeth Brackenbury' here:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=OpfkUi1UadMC
>
> Wonder why? Was it just a random act of sympathy? Is it too much of a leap to wonder if taking the daughter of one of Richard's biggest supporters under her protection might mean Elizabeth was pro-Richard herself...?
>
> (Note: the editor in the above book says Elizabeth Brackenbury 'found shelter under the wing of the Howards', but the Duchess in the will is definitely Elizabeth *Mowbray*. For one thing, Thomas Cosyn was Elizabeth Mowbray's chaplain. For another, the Howards weren't even Dukes of Norfolk in 1504.)
>

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
>

Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ

It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?

Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ

Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?

I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...

You won't regret buying "Eleanor", a whole book on a single case. His "Royal Marriage Secrets" covers a plethora of cases from 1050.
----- Original Message -----
From: pansydobersby
To:
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean



--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
>

Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ

It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?

Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ

Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?

I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...

--- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> >
> > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
> >
>
> Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
> http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ
>
> It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?
>
> Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ
>
> Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?


Marie pops in
They both living in the London Minories (convent of female Franciscans, these days generally known as Poor Clares). There's an article about the ladies who retired to the London Minories after Bosworth in an old Ricardian.

--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?
>
>
> Marie pops in
> They both living in the London Minories (convent of female Franciscans, these days generally known as Poor Clares). There's an article about the ladies who retired to the London Minories after Bosworth in an old Ricardian.
>

Thank you, Marie! My, that's fascinating: even just a quick search in Google Books tells me that the Duchess of Norfolk's circle at the Minories also included Mary Tyrrell - presumably a relative of Sir James Tyrrell?!

I won't rest until I have a complete collection of old back issues of the Ricardian... the wealth of information that's out there is staggering!

I assume this is Elizabeth Mowbray nee Talbot; sister of one Eleanor Butler (yes, that one).

Her DNB:

The Dowager Duchess
The most formidable among the adversaries of the Pastons, although she claimed she was sympathetic to their case for Caister, was the fourth duke's wife Elizabeth Talbot [Elizabeth Mowbray, duchess of Norfolk (d. 1506/7)]. The fourth duke was as open-handed to his wife as to his mother. By 1467 her jointure had been expanded to include most of the inheritance, of which in the event of the duke's death she was ensured control. When he died the duchess was pregnant; she either miscarried or the child was stillborn, which left as heir to the Mowbray inheritance a single daughter, Anne, aged three. At once Edward IV saw the heiress Anne Mowbray as a way of endowing his second son, Richard, duke of York, aged two. An amicable arrangement was achieved with Elizabeth, a process no doubt made easier by the fact that she was apparently in favour at court, having accompanied the king's sister Margaret to Burgundy for her marriage to Duke Charles in 1468. The duchess was determined on two things, an adequate dower for herself, and the disinheritance of one of Anne Mowbray's two heirs, the opponent of the Talbot family in the fifty-year Lisle–Berkeley dispute, William, Lord Berkeley. Both her conditions were met in a series of settlements arrived at in 1476–7. Elizabeth received property valued at £1309, more than half of the value of her late husband's estates, and Lord Berkeley relinquished all interest in the Mowbray inheritance in return for an agreement by Edward IV to pay the debts he owed to the Talbots. Richard of York, who had been created duke of Norfolk on 7 February 1477, was married to Anne Mowbray in St Stephen's Chapel, Westminster, in January 1478. She was now aged five, he was aged four. Anne died in 1482; Richard died in 1483. Elizabeth Talbot remained an influential figure in East Anglia for over a quarter of a century. In 1492, for instance, she is recorded as intervening to protect the rights of the heir to the manor of Ketteringham, Norfolk. But by the time she died, between 6 November 1506 and 10 May 1507, she may have retired to London. Not only did she direct that she was to be buried in the nun's choir of the Minories in Aldgate, rather than beside her husband at Thetford, but she also left 100 marks to be distributed among the poor of Hackney and Whitechapel.

Colin Richmond

--- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't know if this is common knowledge but I've never come across it myself (I think). I was quite surprised to find out that Elizabeth Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk took Sir Robert Brackenbury's daughter under her wing after Bosworth - to the point of being mentioned in Elizabeth Brackenbury's will as 'my speciall goode lady' and 'my lady's grace of Norfolk, to whome I am most specially bounde'. If I understand correctly, she and her chaplain, Dr. Thomas Cosyn, were beneficiaries of the will, and Thomas Cosyn was also one of the executors (I think 'Sir Robert Sowthwell, knyght' is also a Mowbray connection, as people named Southwell had served the Dukes of Norfolk for decades).
>
> You can find the will by searching for 'Elizabeth Brackenbury' here:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=OpfkUi1UadMC
>
> Wonder why? Was it just a random act of sympathy? Is it too much of a leap to wonder if taking the daughter of one of Richard's biggest supporters under her protection might mean Elizabeth was pro-Richard herself...?
>
> (Note: the editor in the above book says Elizabeth Brackenbury 'found shelter under the wing of the Howards', but the Duchess in the will is definitely Elizabeth *Mowbray*. For one thing, Thomas Cosyn was Elizabeth Mowbray's chaplain. For another, the Howards weren't even Dukes of Norfolk in 1504.)
>

Obviously Colin Richmond knows something that we don't. Richard of York died in 1483.

--- In , "davidarayner" <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> I assume this is Elizabeth Mowbray nee Talbot; sister of one Eleanor Butler (yes, that one).
>
> Her DNB:
>
> The Dowager Duchess
> The most formidable among the adversaries of the Pastons, although she claimed she was sympathetic to their case for Caister, was the fourth duke's wife Elizabeth Talbot [Elizabeth Mowbray, duchess of Norfolk (d. 1506/7)]. The fourth duke was as open-handed to his wife as to his mother. By 1467 her jointure had been expanded to include most of the inheritance, of which in the event of the duke's death she was ensured control. When he died the duchess was pregnant; she either miscarried or the child was stillborn, which left as heir to the Mowbray inheritance a single daughter, Anne, aged three. At once Edward IV saw the heiress Anne Mowbray as a way of endowing his second son, Richard, duke of York, aged two. An amicable arrangement was achieved with Elizabeth, a process no doubt made easier by the fact that she was apparently in favour at court, having accompanied the king's sister Margaret to Burgundy for her marriage to Duke Charles in 1468. The duchess was determined on two things, an adequate dower for herself, and the disinheritance of one of Anne Mowbray's two heirs, the opponent of the Talbot family in the fifty-year Lisle–Berkeley dispute, William, Lord Berkeley. Both her conditions were met in a series of settlements arrived at in 1476–7. Elizabeth received property valued at £1309, more than half of the value of her late husband's estates, and Lord Berkeley relinquished all interest in the Mowbray inheritance in return for an agreement by Edward IV to pay the debts he owed to the Talbots. Richard of York, who had been created duke of Norfolk on 7 February 1477, was married to Anne Mowbray in St Stephen's Chapel, Westminster, in January 1478. She was now aged five, he was aged four. Anne died in 1482; Richard died in 1483. Elizabeth Talbot remained an influential figure in East Anglia for over a quarter of a century. In 1492, for instance, she is recorded as intervening to protect the rights of the heir to the manor of Ketteringham, Norfolk. But by the time she died, between 6 November 1506 and 10 May 1507, she may have retired to London. Not only did she direct that she was to be buried in the nun's choir of the Minories in Aldgate, rather than beside her husband at Thetford, but she also left 100 marks to be distributed among the poor of Hackney and Whitechapel.
>
> Colin Richmond
>
> --- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I don't know if this is common knowledge but I've never come across it myself (I think). I was quite surprised to find out that Elizabeth Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk took Sir Robert Brackenbury's daughter under her wing after Bosworth - to the point of being mentioned in Elizabeth Brackenbury's will as 'my speciall goode lady' and 'my lady's grace of Norfolk, to whome I am most specially bounde'. If I understand correctly, she and her chaplain, Dr. Thomas Cosyn, were beneficiaries of the will, and Thomas Cosyn was also one of the executors (I think 'Sir Robert Sowthwell, knyght' is also a Mowbray connection, as people named Southwell had served the Dukes of Norfolk for decades).
> >
> > You can find the will by searching for 'Elizabeth Brackenbury' here:
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=OpfkUi1UadMC
> >
> > Wonder why? Was it just a random act of sympathy? Is it too much of a leap to wonder if taking the daughter of one of Richard's biggest supporters under her protection might mean Elizabeth was pro-Richard herself...?
> >
> > (Note: the editor in the above book says Elizabeth Brackenbury 'found shelter under the wing of the Howards', but the Duchess in the will is definitely Elizabeth *Mowbray*. For one thing, Thomas Cosyn was Elizabeth Mowbray's chaplain. For another, the Howards weren't even Dukes of Norfolk in 1504.)
> >
>

Given that there is no evidence about either "ex-Prince" otherwise, Richmond must be a time-traveller and eye-witness.
----- Original Message -----
From: ricard1an
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Elizabeth Mowbray and Sir Richard Brackenbury's daughter



Obviously Colin Richmond knows something that we don't. Richard of York died in 1483.

--- In , "davidarayner" <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> I assume this is Elizabeth Mowbray nee Talbot; sister of one Eleanor Butler (yes, that one).
>
> Her DNB:
>
> The Dowager Duchess
> The most formidable among the adversaries of the Pastons, although she claimed she was sympathetic to their case for Caister, was the fourth duke's wife Elizabeth Talbot [Elizabeth Mowbray, duchess of Norfolk (d. 1506/7)]. The fourth duke was as open-handed to his wife as to his mother. By 1467 her jointure had been expanded to include most of the inheritance, of which in the event of the duke's death she was ensured control. When he died the duchess was pregnant; she either miscarried or the child was stillborn, which left as heir to the Mowbray inheritance a single daughter, Anne, aged three. At once Edward IV saw the heiress Anne Mowbray as a way of endowing his second son, Richard, duke of York, aged two. An amicable arrangement was achieved with Elizabeth, a process no doubt made easier by the fact that she was apparently in favour at court, having accompanied the king's sister Margaret to Burgundy for her marriage to Duke Charles in 1468. The duchess was determined on two things, an adequate dower for herself, and the disinheritance of one of Anne Mowbray's two heirs, the opponent of the Talbot family in the fifty-year Lisle-Berkeley dispute, William, Lord Berkeley. Both her conditions were met in a series of settlements arrived at in 1476-7. Elizabeth received property valued at £1309, more than half of the value of her late husband's estates, and Lord Berkeley relinquished all interest in the Mowbray inheritance in return for an agreement by Edward IV to pay the debts he owed to the Talbots. Richard of York, who had been created duke of Norfolk on 7 February 1477, was married to Anne Mowbray in St Stephen's Chapel, Westminster, in January 1478. She was now aged five, he was aged four. Anne died in 1482; Richard died in 1483. Elizabeth Talbot remained an influential figure in East Anglia for over a quarter of a century. In 1492, for instance, she is recorded as intervening to protect the rights of the heir to the manor of Ketteringham, Norfolk. But by the time she died, between 6 November 1506 and 10 May 1507, she may have retired to London. Not only did she direct that she was to be buried in the nun's choir of the Minories in Aldgate, rather than beside her husband at Thetford, but she also left 100 marks to be distributed among the poor of Hackney and Whitechapel.
>
> Colin Richmond
>
> --- In , pansydobersby <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I don't know if this is common knowledge but I've never come across it myself (I think). I was quite surprised to find out that Elizabeth Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk took Sir Robert Brackenbury's daughter under her wing after Bosworth - to the point of being mentioned in Elizabeth Brackenbury's will as 'my speciall goode lady' and 'my lady's grace of Norfolk, to whome I am most specially bounde'. If I understand correctly, she and her chaplain, Dr. Thomas Cosyn, were beneficiaries of the will, and Thomas Cosyn was also one of the executors (I think 'Sir Robert Sowthwell, knyght' is also a Mowbray connection, as people named Southwell had served the Dukes of Norfolk for decades).
> >
> > You can find the will by searching for 'Elizabeth Brackenbury' here:
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=OpfkUi1UadMC
> >
> > Wonder why? Was it just a random act of sympathy? Is it too much of a leap to wonder if taking the daughter of one of Richard's biggest supporters under her protection might mean Elizabeth was pro-Richard herself...?
> >
> > (Note: the editor in the above book says Elizabeth Brackenbury 'found shelter under the wing of the Howards', but the Duchess in the will is definitely Elizabeth *Mowbray*. For one thing, Thomas Cosyn was Elizabeth Mowbray's chaplain. For another, the Howards weren't even Dukes of Norfolk in 1504.)
> >
>

The Secret Queen has some good information, but the writing is dry as dust. Had to limit myself to a chapter a day to avoid narcolepsy. The documents section is excellent, though.

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> You won't regret buying "Eleanor", a whole book on a single case. His "Royal Marriage Secrets" covers a plethora of cases from 1050.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pansydobersby
> To:
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean
>
>
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> >
> > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
> >
>
> Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
> http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ
>
> It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?
>
> Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ
>
> Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?
>
> I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'm reading it now, and it's considerably less dry than some other things I've tackled. e. g. Richard III's Books
Nicole

~~~ Music is lots of sound waves coming toward us in a completely chaotic manner and somehow our brain receives that as something beautiful - Matthew Bellamy

To:
From: nanyeha@...
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:19:07 +0000
Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean


























The Secret Queen has some good information, but the writing is dry as dust. Had to limit myself to a chapter a day to avoid narcolepsy. The documents section is excellent, though.



--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:

>

> You won't regret buying "Eleanor", a whole book on a single case. His "Royal Marriage Secrets" covers a plethora of cases from 1050.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: pansydobersby

> To:

> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 4:22 PM

> Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean

>

>

>

> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:

> >

> > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.

> >

>

> Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?

> http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ

>

> It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?

>

> Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ

>

> Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?

>

> I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

To Hilary - I have a copy of the 1984 Ricardian article concerning Eliz Brackenbury's will, because that is the one that suggests Brackenbury is actually buried in St Mary's Church, Gainford, Co Durham - and argues it very plausibly. It doesn't mention any connection with the Mowbrays though, I'm afraid. If you would be interested more in it, message me here.

Cheers,
Col


> > --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ
> >
> > It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?
> >
> > Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ
> >
> > Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?
> >
> > I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Thanks Col. The second bit of this about Elizabeth Brackenbury is not from me but I'm still interested, particularly in 'northern things' and northern wills.



________________________________
From: colyngbourne <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Monday, 19 August 2013, 10:57
Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean

 



To Hilary - I have a copy of the 1984 Ricardian article concerning Eliz Brackenbury's will, because that is the one that suggests Brackenbury is actually buried in St Mary's Church, Gainford, Co Durham - and argues it very plausibly. It doesn't mention any connection with the Mowbrays though, I'm afraid. If you would be interested more in it, message me here.

Cheers,
Col

> > --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ
> >
> > It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?
> >
> > Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ
> >
> > Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?
> >
> > I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Have you purchased a copy of the Society's latest publication, the York Wills?
Marie

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Col. The second bit of this about Elizabeth Brackenbury is not from me but I'm still interested, particularly in 'northern things' and northern wills.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: colyngbourne <[email protected]>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 19 August 2013, 10:57
> Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean
>
>  
>
>
>
> To Hilary - I have a copy of the 1984 Ricardian article concerning Eliz Brackenbury's will, because that is the one that suggests Brackenbury is actually buried in St Mary's Church, Gainford, Co Durham - and argues it very plausibly. It doesn't mention any connection with the Mowbrays though, I'm afraid. If you would be interested more in it, message me here.
>
> Cheers,
> Col
>
> > > --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
> > > http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ
> > >
> > > It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?
> > >
> > > Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
> > > http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ
> > >
> > > Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?
> > >
> > > I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

No, thanks for that reminder Marie. Shall do. Will save me a lot of squinting and translating.  Hilary



________________________________
From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2013, 12:29
Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean

 

Have you purchased a copy of the Society's latest publication, the York Wills?
Marie

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Col. The second bit of this about Elizabeth Brackenbury is not from me but I'm still interested, particularly in 'northern things' and northern wills.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: colyngbourne <[email protected]>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 19 August 2013, 10:57
> Subject: Re: Sir ROBERT Brackenbury's daughter, I mean
>
>  
>
>
>
> To Hilary - I have a copy of the 1984 Ricardian article concerning Eliz Brackenbury's will, because that is the one that suggests Brackenbury is actually buried in St Mary's Church, Gainford, Co Durham - and argues it very plausibly. It doesn't mention any connection with the Mowbrays though, I'm afraid. If you would be interested more in it, message me here.
>
> Cheers,
> Col
>
> > > --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On another note Cosyn was connected with Christ's College Cambridge which both Elizabeth and Eleanor endowed. He is Leslau's candidate for being EB and Edward's covert son; but his dates were wrong, he is too old.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Indeed - I wonder if this is the same 'Tho. Cosyn' who is mentioned as being the rector of Denton (Norfolk) in 1468 in this book?
> > > http://books.google.com/books?id=RdwvAAAAYAAJ
> > >
> > > It says: '1468, Tho. Cosyn, S.T.B. Lapse. He resigned for a pension of 10 marks per annum, out of it, with the Bishop's consent.' I know what S.T.B. means, but what does 'Lapse' mean in this context?
> > >
> > > Regarding Elizabeth Brackenbury's will, I see it has been discussed in this issue of The Ricardian from 1984:
> > > http://books.google.com/books?id=gyPvAAAAMAAJ
> > >
> > > Does anyone here have a copy, and could you please tell me if there's any further information about the possible connection between Elizabeth Mowbray and the Brackenburys? Pretty please?
> > >
> > > I got my copy of 'Eleanor, the Secret Queen' and I can see Thomas Cosyn is mentioned several times in it, as well. Can't wait to read it! This book has intrigued me for such a long time...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>