Who fought at Bosworth?

Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
Bosworth?

A J

Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
Christine
Loyaulte me Lie

--- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> Bosworth?
>
> A J
>
>
>
>

 There was one on here a while ago - I can't remember who posted it though

Liz


________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 20:46
Subject: Who fought at Bosworth?

 
Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
Bosworth?

A J

Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors of
the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically a
list of those who fought at Bosworth?

A J


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> > Bosworth?
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of them.

Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it should give you a fairly good starting list.

I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors and omissions.

Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some participants.

--- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors of
> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically a
> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> > Christine
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> >
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> > > Bosworth?
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

I'm sure it was specifically Bosworth. 



Liz


________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 21:15
Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?


Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors of
the Wars of the Roses.  Am I missing something that is more specifically a
list of those who fought at Bosworth?

A J


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> > Bosworth?
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
>






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi again, I think I have a list will scan it and hopefully post it on files as soon as I can. I could have sworn there was one in the files but can't remember who posted it. it seems to have disappeared.
Christine
Loyaulte me Lie

--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sure it was specifically Bosworth. 
>
>
>
> Liz
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 21:15
> Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
>
>
> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors of
> the Wars of the Roses.  Am I missing something that is more specifically a
> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> > Christine
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> >
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> > > Bosworth?
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > 
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
& a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to other
names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
individuals. Does that seem about right?

2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?

A J


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
<theblackprussian@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of them.
>
> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
> should give you a fairly good starting list.
>
> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors and
> omissions.
>
> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
> participants.
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors
> of
> > the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically a
> > list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
> > christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> > > Christine
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
> at
> > > > Bosworth?
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......

On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...> wrote:

> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to other
> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
> individuals. Does that seem about right?
>
> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
> <theblackprussian@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of them.
>>
>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
>>
>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors and
>> omissions.
>>
>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
>> participants.
>>
>> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors
>> of
>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically a
>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>>>
>>> A J
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
>>> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
>>>> Christine
>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
>> at
>>>>> Bosworth?
>>>>>
>>>>> A J
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Thanks for the offer.

Before you do though, you might want to check David's spreadsheet. Now
that I know what to look for there are maybe 400 names included there.
(See column U "Bos").

A J


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:40 PM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> Hi again, I think I have a list will scan it and hopefully post it on
> files as soon as I can. I could have sworn there was one in the files but
> can't remember who posted it. it seems to have disappeared.
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
> --- In , liz williams
> <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure it was specifically Bosworth.
> >
> >
> >
> > Liz
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> > To: "" <
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 21:15
> > Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors
> of
> > the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically
> a
> > list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
> > christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> > > Christine
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
> at
> > > > Bosworth?
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

That was mine too; I deleted some old files when I posted the updated spreadsheet. I'll see if I still have it on file somewhere.

There's also this similar effort from the Towton BF society:

http://www.towton.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/database_war_roses_combatants.pdf

Not as comprehensive as mine, of course.

--- In , "christineholmes651@..." <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi again, I think I have a list will scan it and hopefully post it on files as soon as I can. I could have sworn there was one in the files but can't remember who posted it. it seems to have disappeared.
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
> --- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure it was specifically Bosworth. 
> >
> >
> >
> > Liz
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 21:15
> > Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
> >
> >
> > Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors of
> > the Wars of the Roses.  Am I missing something that is more specifically a
> > list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@ <
> > christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> > > Christine
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> > > > Bosworth?
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

OK, reposted under BosworthBattlelist2.

Haven't worked on this for years, so may not be as up to date as the main spreadsheet.

--- In , "davidarayner" <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> That was mine too; I deleted some old files when I posted the updated spreadsheet. I'll see if I still have it on file somewhere.
>
> There's also this similar effort from the Towton BF society:
>
> http://www.towton.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/database_war_roses_combatants.pdf
>
> Not as comprehensive as mine, of course.
>
> --- In , "christineholmes651@" <christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi again, I think I have a list will scan it and hopefully post it on files as soon as I can. I could have sworn there was one in the files but can't remember who posted it. it seems to have disappeared.
> > Christine
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> >
> > --- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm sure it was specifically Bosworth. 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Liz
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> > > To: "" <>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 21:15
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors of
> > > the Wars of the Roses.  Am I missing something that is more specifically a
> > > list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@ <
> > > christineholmes651@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> > > > Christine
> > > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard at
> > > > > Bosworth?
> > > > >
> > > > > A J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they did not grab the summer reading crowd.

On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <pbain@...<mailto:pbain@...>> wrote:



We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......

On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...<mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to other
> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
> individuals. Does that seem about right?
>
> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
> <theblackprussian@...<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk>>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of them.
>>
>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
>>
>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors and
>> omissions.
>>
>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
>> participants.
>>
>> --- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors
>> of
>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically a
>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>>>
>>> A J
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
>>> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
>>>> Christine
>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
>> at
>>>>> Bosworth?
>>>>>
>>>>> A J
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Glad to hear it. From all the comments here & elsewhere I will not be
watching the series here in the US, although some viewers think the last
episode was a big improvement & might help Richard's cause in the long run.

A J


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Pamela Bain <pbain@...> wrote:

> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a
> large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire
> HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they
> did not grab the summer reading crowd.
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <pbain@...<mailto:
> pbain@...>> wrote:
>
>
>
> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the
> weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...<mailto:
> ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
> > & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to
> other
> > names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
> > individuals. Does that seem about right?
> >
> > 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
> > of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
> > also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
> > <theblackprussian@...<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk
> >>wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
> >> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of
> them.
> >>
> >> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
> >> should give you a fairly good starting list.
> >>
> >> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors
> and
> >> omissions.
> >>
> >> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
> >> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
> >> participants.
> >>
> >> --- In <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with
> Warriors
> >> of
> >>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more
> specifically a
> >>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >>>
> >>> A J
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
> >>> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> **
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> >>>> Christine
> >>>> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
> >>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
> >> at
> >>>>> Bosworth?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A J
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Non of it does anything but besmerch the characters of all those real
life people.
I fail to understand Hilary when she said she enjoyed it!
The misuse of history and falsification of the lives of people I love
and respect, or even hate, is iniquitous.
Paul


On 15/08/2013 22:14, A J Hibbard wrote:
> Glad to hear it. From all the comments here & elsewhere I will not be
> watching the series here in the US, although some viewers think the last
> episode was a big improvement & might help Richard's cause in the long run.
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Pamela Bain <pbain@...> wrote:
>
>> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a
>> large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
>> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire
>> HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they
>> did not grab the summer reading crowd.
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <pbain@...<mailto:
>> pbain@...>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the
>> weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...<mailto:
>> ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
>>> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to
>> other
>>> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
>>> individuals. Does that seem about right?
>>>
>>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
>>> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
>>> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>>>
>>> A J
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
>>> <theblackprussian@...<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk
>>>> wrote:
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
>>>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of
>> them.
>>>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
>>>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
>>>>
>>>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors
>> and
>>>> omissions.
>>>>
>>>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
>>>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
>>>> participants.
>>>>
>>>> --- In <mailto:
>> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with
>> Warriors
>>>> of
>>>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more
>> specifically a
>>>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>>>>>
>>>>> A J
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
>>>>> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> **
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In <mailto:
>> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
>>>> at
>>>>>>> Bosworth?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Richard Liveth Yet!

Every supermarket I go into has a row of her books discounted. I turn
the covers back to front every time I see one, and put a thriller or
decent piece of writing in front of each!
Paul

On 15/08/2013 22:12, Pamela Bain wrote:
> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they did not grab the summer reading crowd.
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <pbain@...<mailto:pbain@...>> wrote:
>
>
>
> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...<mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
>> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to other
>> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
>> individuals. Does that seem about right?
>>
>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
>> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
>> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>>
>> A J
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
>> <theblackprussian@...<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk>>wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
>>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of them.
>>>
>>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
>>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
>>>
>>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors and
>>> omissions.
>>>
>>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
>>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
>>> participants.
>>>
>>> --- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with Warriors
>>> of
>>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more specifically a
>>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>>>>
>>>> A J
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
>>>> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> **
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
>>>>> Christine
>>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
>>> at
>>>>>> Bosworth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A J
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Richard Liveth Yet!

 I suppose I enjoyed it Paul (and I was talking about Episode 6, not the rest) because despite its dreadful inaccuracies (and I'm with you there) it at least makes Richard a sympathetic character and the actor really does do his best with a basic script. So hopefully those who come new to him will want to find out more about him. Can't say the same at all for Max Irons whose misinterpretation and wooden acting would turn people off Edward forever.  I agree entirely about falsification of facts being iniquitous. (BTW I think we are getting a Ricardian slant on the princes because Baldwin was her adviser - he writes about it on the BBC website). We should be glad for that at least.  Hilary



________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 9:46
Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?


 

Non of it does anything but besmerch the characters of all those real
life people.
I fail to understand Hilary when she said she enjoyed it!
The misuse of history and falsification of the lives of people I love
and respect, or even hate, is iniquitous.
Paul

On 15/08/2013 22:14, A J Hibbard wrote:
> Glad to hear it. From all the comments here & elsewhere I will not be
> watching the series here in the US, although some viewers think the last
> episode was a big improvement & might help Richard's cause in the long run.
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Pamela Bain <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com> wrote:
>
>> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a
>> large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
>> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire
>> HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they
>> did not grab the summer reading crowd.
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com<mailto:
>> mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the
>> weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com<mailto:
>> ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
>>> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to
>> other
>>> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
>>> individuals. Does that seem about right?
>>>
>>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
>>> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
>>> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>>>
>>> A J
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
>>> <mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk
>>>> wrote:
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
>>>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of
>> them.
>>>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
>>>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
>>>>
>>>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors
>> and
>>>> omissions.
>>>>
>>>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
>>>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
>>>> participants.
>>>>
>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
>> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with
>> Warriors
>>>> of
>>>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more
>> specifically a
>>>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
>>>>>
>>>>> A J
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@... <
>>>>> christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> **
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
>> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
>>>> at
>>>>>>> Bosworth?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Richard Liveth Yet!

Hilary wrote:
"I suppose I enjoyed it Paul (and I was talking about Episode 6, not the rest) because despite its dreadful inaccuracies (and I'm with you there) it at least makes Richard a sympathetic character and the actor really does do his best with a basic script. So hopefully those who come new to him will want to find out more about him. Can't say the same at all for Max Irons whose misinterpretation and wooden acting would turn people off Edward forever.  I agree entirely about falsification of facts being iniquitous. (BTW I think we are getting a Ricardian slant on the princes because Baldwin was her adviser - he writes about it on the BBC website)."

Marie replies:
But that's the very same reason PG has Richard and Anne marrying without a dispensation. David Baldwin seems to have been unable to get his head round the idea there could be any other possible reason for the "divorce clause" in the parliamentary settlement, despite the fact that the reason is recorded in a contemporary document.
Has anybody read 'The White Princess'? Does RDoY turn up as a bricklayer in Colchester, by any chance?

Amazon.co.uk enables you to read the first few pags of "The White Princess" should you feel so inclined.  I didn't get very so have no idea if there is any historical accuracy in it .  I just can't stomach her awful prose.



Liz

From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 12:46
Subject: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?

 
Marie replies:
But that's the very same reason PG has Richard and Anne marrying without a dispensation. David Baldwin seems to have been unable to get his head round the idea there could be any other possible reason for the "divorce clause" in the parliamentary settlement, despite the fact that the reason is recorded in a contemporary document.
Has anybody read 'The White Princess'? Does RDoY turn up as a bricklayer in Colchester, by any chance?

TWQ lost me completely with the last episode (nine). I could only laugh out loud when they had Richard lying like a pout-sulky teenager in a fur-crowded fourposter and Anne coming in to tell him, "Richard, your parliament is waiting." Richard then proceeded to whinge about everyone thinking he'd killed the princes -- this after he had been shown personally searching the Tower "door to door" after being told they were missing.

I like the actors portraying Richard and Anne and especially hope Anuerin Barnard gets to reprise playing Richard because there's great potential there, but the script of TWQ would have worked 200% better as comedy or satire. As it is, it doesn't work dramatically on multiple levels, I don't know how anyone ignorant of the period can even follow along given the rate at which they're pulled along from scene to scene. Not to mention the endless expositionary dialogue along the lines of, "Sir Robert Brackenbury, I see you are kneeling before me and give you a gold collar and take your fealty because you are now my Whatever Of the Tower."

Richard's abrupt personality change is annoying and so entirely inaccurate for any medieval warlord that...ngh, there are no words.

Ah, well. It endeth in two days.

~Weds


--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
>  I suppose I enjoyed it Paul (and I was talking about Episode 6, not the rest) because despite its dreadful inaccuracies (and I'm with you there) it at least makes Richard a sympathetic character and the actor really does do his best with a basic script. So hopefully those who come new to him will want to find out more about him. Can't say the same at all for Max Irons whose misinterpretation and wooden acting would turn people off Edward forever.  I agree entirely about falsification of facts being iniquitous. (BTW I think we are getting a Ricardian slant on the princes because Baldwin was her adviser - he writes about it on the BBC website). We should be glad for that at least.  Hilary
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 9:46
> Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
>
>
>  
>
> Non of it does anything but besmerch the characters of all those real
> life people.
> I fail to understand Hilary when she said she enjoyed it!
> The misuse of history and falsification of the lives of people I love
> and respect, or even hate, is iniquitous.
> Paul
>
> On 15/08/2013 22:14, A J Hibbard wrote:
> > Glad to hear it. From all the comments here & elsewhere I will not be
> > watching the series here in the US, although some viewers think the last
> > episode was a big improvement & might help Richard's cause in the long run.
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Pamela Bain <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a
> >> large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
> >> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire
> >> HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they
> >> did not grab the summer reading crowd.
> >>
> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com<mailto:
> >> mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the
> >> weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
> >>
> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com<mailto:
> >> ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
> >>> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to
> >> other
> >>> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
> >>> individuals. Does that seem about right?
> >>>
> >>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
> >>> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
> >>> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >>>
> >>> A J
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
> >>> <mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> **
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
> >>>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of
> >> them.
> >>>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
> >>>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
> >>>>
> >>>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors
> >> and
> >>>> omissions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
> >>>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
> >>>> participants.
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with
> >> Warriors
> >>>> of
> >>>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more
> >> specifically a
> >>>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A J
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@ <
> >>>>> christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> **
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> >>>>>> Christine
> >>>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
> >>>> at
> >>>>>>> Bosworth?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A J
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>

Ten tiresome weeks of tediously terrible torture that tried to trick us of the truth, tell us tittle-tattle and treacherous tales to take us to Tudor's tenaciously timely and tempting trap. (Couldn't think of any more t-words! But it's my notion of a crossword clue for TWQ.) =^..^=

From: wednesday_mc
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 4:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?


TWQ lost me completely with the last episode (nine). I could only laugh out loud when they had Richard lying like a pout-sulky teenager in a fur-crowded fourposter and Anne coming in to tell him, "Richard, your parliament is waiting." Richard then proceeded to whinge about everyone thinking he'd killed the princes -- this after he had been shown personally searching the Tower "door to door" after being told they were missing.

I like the actors portraying Richard and Anne and especially hope Anuerin Barnard gets to reprise playing Richard because there's great potential there, but the script of TWQ would have worked 200% better as comedy or satire. As it is, it doesn't work dramatically on multiple levels, I don't know how anyone ignorant of the period can even follow along given the rate at which they're pulled along from scene to scene. Not to mention the endless expositionary dialogue along the lines of, "Sir Robert Brackenbury, I see you are kneeling before me and give you a gold collar and take your fealty because you are now my Whatever Of the Tower."

Richard's abrupt personality change is annoying and so entirely inaccurate for any medieval warlord that...ngh, there are no words.

Ah, well. It endeth in two days.

~Weds


--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
>  I suppose I enjoyed it Paul (and I was talking about Episode 6, not the rest) because despite its dreadful inaccuracies (and I'm with you there) it at least makes Richard a sympathetic character and the actor really does do his best with a basic script. So hopefully those who come new to him will want to find out more about him. Can't say the same at all for Max Irons whose misinterpretation and wooden acting would turn people off Edward forever. I agree entirely about falsification of facts being iniquitous. (BTW I think we are getting a Ricardian slant on the princes because Baldwin was her adviser - he writes about it on the BBC website). We should be glad for that at least.  Hilary
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 9:46
> Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
>
>
> Â
>
> Non of it does anything but besmerch the characters of all those real
> life people.
> I fail to understand Hilary when she said she enjoyed it!
> The misuse of history and falsification of the lives of people I love
> and respect, or even hate, is iniquitous.
> Paul
>
> On 15/08/2013 22:14, A J Hibbard wrote:
> > Glad to hear it. From all the comments here & elsewhere I will not be
> > watching the series here in the US, although some viewers think the last
> > episode was a big improvement & might help Richard's cause in the long run.
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Pamela Bain <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a
> >> large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
> >> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire
> >> HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they
> >> did not grab the summer reading crowd.
> >>
> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com<mailto:
> >> mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the
> >> weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
> >>
> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com<mailto:
> >> ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
> >>> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to
> >> other
> >>> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
> >>> individuals. Does that seem about right?
> >>>
> >>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
> >>> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
> >>> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >>>
> >>> A J
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
> >>> <mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> **
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
> >>>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of
> >> them.
> >>>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
> >>>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
> >>>>
> >>>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors
> >> and
> >>>> omissions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
> >>>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
> >>>> participants.
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with
> >> Warriors
> >>>> of
> >>>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more
> >> specifically a
> >>>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A J
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@ <
> >>>>> christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> **
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> >>>>>> Christine
> >>>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
> >>>> at
> >>>>>>> Bosworth?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A J
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>

AJ wrote:
> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>
> A J

Carol responds:

"The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.

I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).

I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Carol

This is true. We've only watched the first episode, but my husband (who knows very little about the WOR) said it would have been nice if they explained things a little more.  His statement was "I don't even know why they were mad at each other" ( I explained!)  It would have been better if some background had been given.
Vickie


________________________________
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?

 

TWQ lost me completely with the last episode (nine). I could only laugh out loud when they had Richard lying like a pout-sulky teenager in a fur-crowded fourposter and Anne coming in to tell him, "Richard, your parliament is waiting." Richard then proceeded to whinge about everyone thinking he'd killed the princes -- this after he had been shown personally searching the Tower "door to door" after being told they were missing.

I like the actors portraying Richard and Anne and especially hope Anuerin Barnard gets to reprise playing Richard because there's great potential there, but the script of TWQ would have worked 200% better as comedy or satire. As it is, it doesn't work dramatically on multiple levels, I don't know how anyone ignorant of the period can even follow along given the rate at which they're pulled along from scene to scene. Not to mention the endless expositionary dialogue along the lines of, "Sir Robert Brackenbury, I see you are kneeling before me and give you a gold collar and take your fealty because you are now my Whatever Of the Tower."

Richard's abrupt personality change is annoying and so entirely inaccurate for any medieval warlord that...ngh, there are no words.

Ah, well. It endeth in two days.

~Weds


--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
>  I suppose I enjoyed it Paul (and I was talking about Episode 6, not the rest) because despite its dreadful inaccuracies (and I'm with you there) it at least makes Richard a sympathetic character and the actor really does do his best with a basic script. So hopefully those who come new to him will want to find out more about him. Can't say the same at all for Max Irons whose misinterpretation and wooden acting would turn people off Edward forever.  I agree entirely about falsification of facts being iniquitous. (BTW I think we are getting a Ricardian slant on the princes because Baldwin was her adviser - he writes about it on the BBC website). We should be glad for that at least.  Hilary
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 9:46
> Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
>
>
>  
>
> Non of it does anything but besmerch the characters of all those real
> life people.
> I fail to understand Hilary when she said she enjoyed it!
> The misuse of history and falsification of the lives of people I love
> and respect, or even hate, is iniquitous.
> Paul
>
> On 15/08/2013 22:14, A J Hibbard wrote:
> > Glad to hear it. From all the comments here & elsewhere I will not be
> > watching the series here in the US, although some viewers think the last
> > episode was a big improvement & might help Richard's cause in the long run.
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Pamela Bain <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Oops, sorry, wires crossed somehow. That was to my cousin. We re having a
> >> large rain and wind storm so some things crossed lines. My apologies.
> >> But, for good news, I was at the grocery this afternoon, and an entire
> >> HUGE shelf of PG books where on sale from 20% to 40% off. Evidently, they
> >> did not grab the summer reading crowd.
> >>
> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:43 PM, "Pamela Bain" <mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com<mailto:
> >> mailto:pbain%40bmbi.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are a pair, I have a broken arm...... Long tale tomorrow or over the
> >> weekend? Sorry about your eyes. God, always something......
> >>
> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "A J Hibbard" <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com<mailto:
> >> ajhibbard%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Okay, thanks - I think I've got it. The information I want is in column U
> >>> & a search for "bos" turns up 468 matches, some of which hits are to
> >> other
> >>> names like Bosvil, Boscawen or Bostock, leaving maybe 400 known
> >>> individuals. Does that seem about right?
> >>>
> >>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad
> >>> of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I
> >>> also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >>>
> >>> A J
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, davidarayner
> >>> <mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk<mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> **
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume you're referring to my list; if you scroll right you'll see
> >>>> columns for each battle, and notes as L or Y for who fought in each of
> >> them.
> >>>> Such data is, of course, never complete or entirely reliable, but it
> >>>> should give you a fairly good starting list.
> >>>>
> >>>> I try to keep the file updated, but there are bound to be some errors
> >> and
> >>>> omissions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also bear in mind that due to indifferent spelling from chroniclers
> >>>> unfamiliar with family names, it is often difficult to identify some
> >>>> participants.
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks - I did have a look & there is indeed a spreadsheet with
> >> Warriors
> >>>> of
> >>>>> the Wars of the Roses. Am I missing something that is more
> >> specifically a
> >>>>> list of those who fought at Bosworth?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A J
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, christineholmes651@ <
> >>>>> christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> **
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello, there is a list in the forum files I believe.
> >>>>>> Christine
> >>>>>> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Does anyone know of an existing list of those who fought for Richard
> >>>> at
> >>>>>>> Bosworth?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A J
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>


 

Some of the names mentioned are impossible to identify, but those which can be determined are included.

We'll probably never know the truth of some individuals; probably the Earl of Nottingham wasn't there, but he is featured on the famous relief of the battle at Stowe.

Some historians assert that hardly any nobles turned out for Richard; in fact the attendance from adult peers was fairly high.

As I suggested in a thread some months ago, the large number of men of knightly rank killed in the battle suggests a higher casualty rate than is usually given, and that the killing didn't stop when Richard fell as is often asserted.

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> AJ wrote:
> > 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >
> > A J
>
> Carol responds:
>
> "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
>
> I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
>
> I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> Carol
>

Thanks again, all very useful information. I'm almost finished
transcribing the Commissions of the Peace 1467-1477 & will then jump ahead
to the last ones for each county, for Richard's & I suppose Henry VII's.
By then I should have a good handle on who were involved in the
government. (Probably an easier way, but the names are starting to sink
into my brain).

A J


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 1:12 PM, davidarayner
<theblackprussian@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Some of the names mentioned are impossible to identify, but those which
> can be determined are included.
>
> We'll probably never know the truth of some individuals; probably the Earl
> of Nottingham wasn't there, but he is featured on the famous relief of the
> battle at Stowe.
>
> Some historians assert that hardly any nobles turned out for Richard; in
> fact the attendance from adult peers was fairly high.
>
> As I suggested in a thread some months ago, the large number of men of
> knightly rank killed in the battle suggests a higher casualty rate than is
> usually given, and that the killing didn't stop when Richard fell as is
> often asserted.
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > AJ wrote:
> > > 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the
> Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should
> I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> > >
> > > A J
> >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley
> follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep
> some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything
> in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
> >
> > I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but
> also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most
> historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
> >
> > I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to
> WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm
> wrong.)
> >
> > Carol
> >
>
>
>

Correct Carol.
Paul
On 16/08/2013 17:30, justcarol67 wrote:
> AJ wrote:
>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>>
>> A J
> Carol responds:
>
> "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
>
> I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
>
> I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Richard Liveth Yet!

Mmm, sorry, but isn't everyone referring to my file (the Bosworth Battle one)?

Which file did you post?

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Correct Carol.
> Paul
> On 16/08/2013 17:30, justcarol67 wrote:
> > AJ wrote:
> >> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >>
> >> A J
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
> >
> > I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
> >
> > I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Oh for goodness sakes! I don't care who claims what, but I posted a long
list of participants, a copy of which I sent off list to AJ. That was
the one I imagined referred to. You want credit David, fine.
All this sniping at each other is getting on my nerves.

Marie, in your post you said I said Richard wasn't at Middleham more
than four years at most. You came back with "wrong dates Paul". Yes, in
my haste I put the wrong dates in. Still 4 years though!

Time to take time away again and get on with more important Ricardian
things.
Paul



On 18/08/2013 00:47, davidarayner wrote:
> Mmm, sorry, but isn't everyone referring to my file (the Bosworth Battle one)?
>
> Which file did you post?
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>> Correct Carol.
>> Paul
>> On 16/08/2013 17:30, justcarol67 wrote:
>>> AJ wrote:
>>>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>>>>
>>>> A J
>>> Carol responds:
>>>
>>> "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
>>>
>>> I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
>>>
>>> I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Richard Liveth Yet!

Come back soon! I always look forward to your posts.  Hilary



________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 18 August 2013, 10:13
Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?


 

Oh for goodness sakes! I don't care who claims what, but I posted a long
list of participants, a copy of which I sent off list to AJ. That was
the one I imagined referred to. You want credit David, fine.
All this sniping at each other is getting on my nerves.

Marie, in your post you said I said Richard wasn't at Middleham more
than four years at most. You came back with "wrong dates Paul". Yes, in
my haste I put the wrong dates in. Still 4 years though!

Time to take time away again and get on with more important Ricardian
things.
Paul

On 18/08/2013 00:47, davidarayner wrote:
> Mmm, sorry, but isn't everyone referring to my file (the Bosworth Battle one)?
>
> Which file did you post?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>> Correct Carol.
>> Paul
>> On 16/08/2013 17:30, justcarol67 wrote:
>>> AJ wrote:
>>>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
>>>>
>>>> A J
>>> Carol responds:
>>>
>>> "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
>>>
>>> I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
>>>
>>> I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Richard Liveth Yet!

Nothing personal, I was just interested to know if you'd also posted a list I could use for comparison.

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Come back soon! I always look forward to your posts.  Hilary
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 18 August 2013, 10:13
> Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?
>
>
>  
>
> Oh for goodness sakes! I don't care who claims what, but I posted a long
> list of participants, a copy of which I sent off list to AJ. That was
> the one I imagined referred to. You want credit David, fine.
> All this sniping at each other is getting on my nerves.
>
> Marie, in your post you said I said Richard wasn't at Middleham more
> than four years at most. You came back with "wrong dates Paul". Yes, in
> my haste I put the wrong dates in. Still 4 years though!
>
> Time to take time away again and get on with more important Ricardian
> things.
> Paul
>
> On 18/08/2013 00:47, davidarayner wrote:
> > Mmm, sorry, but isn't everyone referring to my file (the Bosworth Battle one)?
> >
> > Which file did you post?
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >> Correct Carol.
> >> Paul
> >> On 16/08/2013 17:30, justcarol67 wrote:
> >>> AJ wrote:
> >>>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >>>>
> >>>> A J
> >>> Carol responds:
> >>>
> >>> "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable source.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
> >>>
> >>> I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
> >>>
> >>> Carol
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Oh for goodness sakes! I don't care who claims what, but I posted a long
> list of participants, a copy of which I sent off list to AJ. That was
> the one I imagined referred to. You want credit David, fine.
> All this sniping at each other is getting on my nerves.
>
> Marie, in your post you said I said Richard wasn't at Middleham more
> than four years at most. You came back with "wrong dates Paul". Yes, in
> my haste I put the wrong dates in. Still 4 years though!


Marie replies,
Paul, I didn't comment on the number of years, only which years they were.

>
> Time to take time away again and get on with more important Ricardian
> things.

Snap.
Marie

Sorry to inadvertently start a row. And thanks to you both for the lists.

A J


On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 4:13 AM, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Oh for goodness sakes! I don't care who claims what, but I posted a long
> list of participants, a copy of which I sent off list to AJ. That was
> the one I imagined referred to. You want credit David, fine.
> All this sniping at each other is getting on my nerves.
>
> Marie, in your post you said I said Richard wasn't at Middleham more
> than four years at most. You came back with "wrong dates Paul". Yes, in
> my haste I put the wrong dates in. Still 4 years though!
>
> Time to take time away again and get on with more important Ricardian
> things.
> Paul
>
>
> On 18/08/2013 00:47, davidarayner wrote:
> > Mmm, sorry, but isn't everyone referring to my file (the Bosworth Battle
> one)?
> >
> > Which file did you post?
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale
> <paul.bale@...> wrote:
> >> Correct Carol.
> >> Paul
> >> On 16/08/2013 17:30, justcarol67 wrote:
> >>> AJ wrote:
> >>>> 2 sources that have been mentioned by someone on Ricardian are the
> Ballad of Bosworth Field & "a source from 1813 written by W Hutton." Should
> I also look at these or are they already incorporated in your table?
> >>>>
> >>>> A J
> >>> Carol responds:
> >>>
> >>> "The Ballad of Bosworth Field" is Tudor propaganda written by a
> Stanley follower, as you'll find if you can steel yourself to read the
> thing. (Keep some antacids handy--and maybe a punching bag.) I wouldn't
> trust anything in it unless the information also appears in some reliable
> source.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know anything about Hutton, but 1813 is not only very late but
> also a time when the Tudor version of events was accepted by most
> historians (despite Buck and a few other questioners).
> >>>
> >>> I *think* that the person who posted a file of Bosworth (as opposed to
> WOTR) participants to our Files was Paul. (Paul, please correct me if I'm
> wrong.)
> >>>
> >>> Carol
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>

davidarayner wrote:

"Nothing personal, I was just interested to know if you'd also posted a list
I could use for comparison."

Doug here:
There were two posts by Paul, I've cut and pasted them below. The second
part was sent on 24 Aug, 2012, but I'm afraid I did't keep the header for
the first post. Paul's posts start with the first quotation mark:

"Here is a roll call of the knights [plus assorted lords etc] who fought at
Bosworth, and what happened to them. As you can see there were far more
fighting for their king than were with Tudor, and those with Tudor mostly
had an axe to grind of a personal nature with Richard [attainted for
involvement in a conspiracy mainly].
The number of dead is not large, and only two names came up as having been
executed after the battle, one our "dear" Catesby.
Paul

Yorkists
Sir Ralph Ashton of Ashton Under Lyne, did not suffer forfeiture under Henry
VII
Sir John Audley of Markeaton, Derbyshire
Sir John Babington of Chilwell
Sir Humphrey Beaufort of Barford St. John, Oxfordshire, killed in battle
Sir Willialm Berkeley of Uley, Gloucestershire
Sir Henry Bodrugan of Restronget, Cornwall, attainted
Sir Reginald Bray of Eaton Bray, Bedfordshire
Sir Robert Brackenbury of Denton, Durham, killed in battle
Sir Thomas Broughton of Broughton in Furness, Lancashire, attainted*
Sir John Buck of Harthill, Yorkshire, executed
Sir William Catesby of Ashby St. Legers, Northamptonshire, executed after
the battle
Sir Richard Charlton of Edmonton, Middlesex, killed in battle
Sir Gervase Clifton of Clifton, Nottinghamshire
Sir Marmaduke Constable* of Somersby, Lincolnshire, pardoned
Sir John Conyers of Hornby, Yorkshire
Sir William Conyers, killed in battle
Lord Thomas Dacre of Gilsland, Cumbria
Walter Devereaux, Lord Ferrers of Chartley of Weobley, Herefordshire, killed
in battle
John Lord Dudley, created Sheriff of Sussex by Henry VII
Sir John Ferrers, killed in battle
Thomas Fiennes, Lord Dacre, did not suffer forfeiture under Henry VII
Thomas Fitzalan, Lord Maltravers, pardoned
Richard Lord Fitzhugh of Ravensworth, Yorkshire, created chief lieutenant of
the North under Henry VII
Sir William Gascoigne of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire
Sir Thomas Gower of Sittenham, Durham, killed in battle
Lord Henry Grey of Codnor, Derbyshire
Sir John Grey
Ralph Lord Greystoke of Greystoke, Cumbria*, did not suffer forfeiture under
Henry VII
Sir Ralph Harbottle of Beamish, Durham
Sir James Harrington of Brearley, Yorkshire, attainted*
Sir Robert Harrington of Badsworth, Yorkshire
Richard Hastings, Lord Welles
John Howard, Duke of Norfolk* of Stoke by Nayland, Suffolk, killed in battle
Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey of Ashwellthorp, Norfolk, imprisoned*
Sir John Huddleston, attainted
Sir Piers Legh of Lymm, Cheshire
George Lord Lumley of Lumley, Durham
Thomas Lord Lumley, pardoned
Sir Robert Manners of Etal, Northumberland
Sir Thomas Markenfield of Markenfield, Yorkshire, created Sheriff of
Yorkshire under Henry VII*
Sir Thomas Maulever of Allerton Mauleverer, Yorkshire, fought for Yorkists
at Battle of Stoke (1487)
Sir John Melton of Ashton by Sheffield, Yorkshire
Sir John Middleton of Belsay, Northumberland
Sir Robert Middleton of Dalton, Westmoreland, attainted
Sir Thomas Montgomery of Faulkborn, Essex, did not suffer forfeiture under
Henry VII
Sir Christopher Moresby* of Windermere, Westmoreland, created Sheriff of
Cumberland under Henry VII
Sir John Neville* of Liversedge, Yorkshire
Ralph Neville, Earl of Westmorland, pardoned
Sir William Parker of London
Sir John Paston
Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland*, of Alnwick, Northumberland,
imprisoned, then released
Sir Robert Percy* of Scotton, Yorkshire, killed in battle
Sir Henry Pierpont of Holme Pierrepoint, Nottinghamshire
Sir Thomas Pilkington* of Pilkington, Lancashire, attainted
Sir Robert Plumpton of Plumpton, Yorkshire
John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln, of Wingfield, Suffolk
Sir John Pudsey of Arnford, Yorkshire
Sir Richard Ratcliffe of Derwentwater, Cumbria*, killed in battle
Sir Robert Ryther of Ryther, Yorkshire
Sir Martin del See, Barmston, Yorkshire
John Lord Scrope of Castle Bolton, Yorkshire, fought for Yorkists at Battle
of Stoke (1487)
Thomas Lord Scrope of Masham, Yorkshire
Sir Humphrey Stafford of Grafton, Worcestershire, attainted
Sir Brian Stapleton of Carleton, Yorkshire
Sir Thomas Strickland of Sizergh, Westmoreland
Sir Richard Tempest of Bracewell, Yorkshire
Sir Percival Thirlwall of Thirlwall, Northumberland, killed in battle
Sir Robert Ughtered of Kexby, Yorkshire
Sir Christopher Warde of Givendale, Yorkshire

Lancastrians

Sir James Blount of Tutbury, Staffordshire, attainder under Richard III
reversed
Sir Thomas Bourchier* of Horsley, Surrey
Sir William Brandon* of Soham, Cambridgeshire, killed in battle
Sir Edmund Carew of Mohun's Ottery, Devon
Sir John Cheyne of Falstone Cheney, Wiltshire, created Lord Cheyne after
Bosworth*
Sir Edward Courtnenay of Tiverton, Devon, created Earl of Devon by Henry VII
Sir Richard Corbet of Moreton Corbet, Shropshire
Sir Giles Daubeney of South Petherton, Somerset, became royal councillor
under Henry VII
Sir Simon Digby of Coleshill, Warwickshire
Sir Richard Edgecombe of Cotehele, Cornwall,
Sir John ap Ellis Eyton of Ruabon, Denbighshire
Sir John Fortescue of Ponsbourne, Hertfordshire, attainder under Richard III
Sir John Hallwell of Bigbury, Devon
Sir Robert Harcourt of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire
Sir Walter Hungerford* of Heytesbury, Wiltshire, knighted, attainder under
Richard III
Sir Nicholas Latimer of Buckland in Duntish, Dorset
Sir Roger Kynaston of Hordley, Shropshire
Sir Thomas Milbourn of Salisbury, Wiltshire
Sir John Morgan, rewarded after battle
Sir John Mordaunt of Turvey, Bedforshire
Sir James Parker, awarded part of Clevedon, Somerset
Sir Thomas Perrott of Haroldston, Pembrokeshire
Sir Hugh Pershall of Knightley, Staffordshire,
Sir John Risley of Laenham, Suffolk, attainder under Richard III
Sir Brian Sandford ofThorpe Salvin, Yorkshire
Sir Charles Somerset of Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Sir Humphrey Stanley, awarded part of Clevedon, Somerset
Sir Roger Tocotes
Sir John Treffry of Fowey
Sir Richard Tunstall
Sir William Tyler of Snarestone, Leicestershire
Sir Robert Willoughby of Beer Ferrers, Devon
Sir Christopher of Urswick of London
John Lord Welles of Maxey, Northamptonshire,
Sir John Wogan of Wiston, Pembrokeshire
Sir Edward Woodville, rewarded after battle
Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, created Duke of Bedford*
Thomas Lord Stanley of Lathom Lancashire, created Earl of Derby after battle
Sir William Stanley* of Holt Denbighshire, created Chamberlain of Henry VII's
household
Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, created Duke of Bedford*
John de Vere, Earl of Oxford of Hedingham, Essex, created hereditary Great
Chamberlain of England*
John Lord Welles of Maxey, Northamptonshire, awarded property in East
Deeping, Lincolnshire

The following additions can be made to those killed at Bosworth. Not all are
Knights, but are are of landowning families.

William Allington of Horsheath
Richard Bagot of Blithfield (Lan)
John Bernard of Abington
Roger Betham of Betham
Richard Boughton of Little Lawford (killed while recruiting August 20th)
John Brabazon of Eastwell
Henry Brome of Brome (Lan)
Richard Charlton of Edmonton
Robert Claxton of Westhall
Humphrey Cotes of Woodcote
Thomas Curzon of Croxall
Ralph Danby of Little Danby
William Gilpin of Kentmere
Thomas Hampden of Upton
John Harbottle of Beamish (killed August 21st)
Roger Heron of the Ford
Walter Hopton (Treasurer)
John Hutton of Hunwick
John Iwardby of Missenden
John Joyce of Windsor
John Kendal of York
Thomas Lynde of Stoke Lynde
Robert Mortimer of Thorpe-le-Soken
John Mynde of Little Sutton (Lan)
John Nesfield?
Ralph Perceval of Tykenham
John Radcliffe of Radcliffe Tower
John Sacheverall of Ratcliffe on Soar
Geoffrey St German of Broughton
William Sapcote of Burley
Thomas Strange of Walton
Gilbert Swinburne of Chopwell
Ralph Valentine of Flixton
John Whittingham of Pendley (Lan)
Thomas Wingfield of Letheringham
(William Bracher & son - executed)

Altogether its a fairly long list for a battle which is considered to have
been short, and not to have ended in a rout. Men clad in steel plate were
hard to kill, which is why I question the accepted accounts of a relatively
bloodless battle."

"davidarayner" <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Nothing personal, I was just interested to know if you'd also posted a list I could use for comparison.

Carol responds:

David, I could have sworn that Paul posted a list of Bosworth participants in the Files (a different file from yours), but I can't find it. Thank you for reposting yours. I hope that Paul will post a link to his as well. The more information we have, the better.

Paul, David wasn't claiming credit for your file. They are two separate documents. Like David, I'm interested in comparing them.

Carol

Now looking at your list you might be interested in the history of the family of Richard Boughton of Little Lawford who died recruiting troops for HT just before Bosworth (shame!).
 
Boughton was a Warks gent who hung out with the Belknaps, the Butlers and the Catesbys (sound familiar?). Like them his main aim was acquiring manors including that of Brownsover, just across the road from me. Well, he met a bad end as you've seen, but a century later his one-handed descendant was (literally) haunting the roads around here driving a coach and four. His spirit had to be exorcised, trapped in a bottle and thrown into a pond, but it re-surfaced and is now hidden in Brownsover Hall in an undisclosed place. I joke not, this was done by the local clergy. That was not all. At the end of the eighteenth century the young heir (now Boughton-Leigh of Stoneleigh Abbey as well) was poisoned by his brother-in-law, who was hanged at Warwick on very flimsy evidence. The Boughton-Leighs are with us no more.
 
Was this the curse of Melusine? I'm sure PG would say it was. Did the curse follow other combatants? But Brownsover Hall is a very spooky place.... H.  :)


________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 18 August 2013, 19:58
Subject: Re: Re: Who fought at Bosworth?

 


davidarayner wrote:

"Nothing personal, I was just interested to know if you'd also posted a list
I could use for comparison."

Doug here:
There were two posts by Paul, I've cut and pasted them below. The second
part was sent on 24 Aug, 2012, but I'm afraid I did't keep the header for
the first post. Paul's posts start with the first quotation mark:

"Here is a roll call of the knights [plus assorted lords etc] who fought at
Bosworth, and what happened to them. As you can see there were far more
fighting for their king than were with Tudor, and those with Tudor mostly
had an axe to grind of a personal nature with Richard [attainted for
involvement in a conspiracy mainly].
The number of dead is not large, and only two names came up as having been
executed after the battle, one our "dear" Catesby.
Paul

Yorkists
Sir Ralph Ashton of Ashton Under Lyne, did not suffer forfeiture under Henry
VII
Sir John Audley of Markeaton, Derbyshire
Sir John Babington of Chilwell
Sir Humphrey Beaufort of Barford St. John, Oxfordshire, killed in battle
Sir Willialm Berkeley of Uley, Gloucestershire
Sir Henry Bodrugan of Restronget, Cornwall, attainted
Sir Reginald Bray of Eaton Bray, Bedfordshire
Sir Robert Brackenbury of Denton, Durham, killed in battle
Sir Thomas Broughton of Broughton in Furness, Lancashire, attainted*
Sir John Buck of Harthill, Yorkshire, executed
Sir William Catesby of Ashby St. Legers, Northamptonshire, executed after
the battle
Sir Richard Charlton of Edmonton, Middlesex, killed in battle
Sir Gervase Clifton of Clifton, Nottinghamshire
Sir Marmaduke Constable* of Somersby, Lincolnshire, pardoned
Sir John Conyers of Hornby, Yorkshire
Sir William Conyers, killed in battle
Lord Thomas Dacre of Gilsland, Cumbria
Walter Devereaux, Lord Ferrers of Chartley of Weobley, Herefordshire, killed
in battle
John Lord Dudley, created Sheriff of Sussex by Henry VII
Sir John Ferrers, killed in battle
Thomas Fiennes, Lord Dacre, did not suffer forfeiture under Henry VII
Thomas Fitzalan, Lord Maltravers, pardoned
Richard Lord Fitzhugh of Ravensworth, Yorkshire, created chief lieutenant of
the North under Henry VII
Sir William Gascoigne of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire
Sir Thomas Gower of Sittenham, Durham, killed in battle
Lord Henry Grey of Codnor, Derbyshire
Sir John Grey
Ralph Lord Greystoke of Greystoke, Cumbria*, did not suffer forfeiture under
Henry VII
Sir Ralph Harbottle of Beamish, Durham
Sir James Harrington of Brearley, Yorkshire, attainted*
Sir Robert Harrington of Badsworth, Yorkshire
Richard Hastings, Lord Welles
John Howard, Duke of Norfolk* of Stoke by Nayland, Suffolk, killed in battle
Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey of Ashwellthorp, Norfolk, imprisoned*
Sir John Huddleston, attainted
Sir Piers Legh of Lymm, Cheshire
George Lord Lumley of Lumley, Durham
Thomas Lord Lumley, pardoned
Sir Robert Manners of Etal, Northumberland
Sir Thomas Markenfield of Markenfield, Yorkshire, created Sheriff of
Yorkshire under Henry VII*
Sir Thomas Maulever of Allerton Mauleverer, Yorkshire, fought for Yorkists
at Battle of Stoke (1487)
Sir John Melton of Ashton by Sheffield, Yorkshire
Sir John Middleton of Belsay, Northumberland
Sir Robert Middleton of Dalton, Westmoreland, attainted
Sir Thomas Montgomery of Faulkborn, Essex, did not suffer forfeiture under
Henry VII
Sir Christopher Moresby* of Windermere, Westmoreland, created Sheriff of
Cumberland under Henry VII
Sir John Neville* of Liversedge, Yorkshire
Ralph Neville, Earl of Westmorland, pardoned
Sir William Parker of London
Sir John Paston
Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland*, of Alnwick, Northumberland,
imprisoned, then released
Sir Robert Percy* of Scotton, Yorkshire, killed in battle
Sir Henry Pierpont of Holme Pierrepoint, Nottinghamshire
Sir Thomas Pilkington* of Pilkington, Lancashire, attainted
Sir Robert Plumpton of Plumpton, Yorkshire
John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln, of Wingfield, Suffolk
Sir John Pudsey of Arnford, Yorkshire
Sir Richard Ratcliffe of Derwentwater, Cumbria*, killed in battle
Sir Robert Ryther of Ryther, Yorkshire
Sir Martin del See, Barmston, Yorkshire
John Lord Scrope of Castle Bolton, Yorkshire, fought for Yorkists at Battle
of Stoke (1487)
Thomas Lord Scrope of Masham, Yorkshire
Sir Humphrey Stafford of Grafton, Worcestershire, attainted
Sir Brian Stapleton of Carleton, Yorkshire
Sir Thomas Strickland of Sizergh, Westmoreland
Sir Richard Tempest of Bracewell, Yorkshire
Sir Percival Thirlwall of Thirlwall, Northumberland, killed in battle
Sir Robert Ughtered of Kexby, Yorkshire
Sir Christopher Warde of Givendale, Yorkshire

Lancastrians

Sir James Blount of Tutbury, Staffordshire, attainder under Richard III
reversed
Sir Thomas Bourchier* of Horsley, Surrey
Sir William Brandon* of Soham, Cambridgeshire, killed in battle
Sir Edmund Carew of Mohun's Ottery, Devon
Sir John Cheyne of Falstone Cheney, Wiltshire, created Lord Cheyne after
Bosworth*
Sir Edward Courtnenay of Tiverton, Devon, created Earl of Devon by Henry VII
Sir Richard Corbet of Moreton Corbet, Shropshire
Sir Giles Daubeney of South Petherton, Somerset, became royal councillor
under Henry VII
Sir Simon Digby of Coleshill, Warwickshire
Sir Richard Edgecombe of Cotehele, Cornwall,
Sir John ap Ellis Eyton of Ruabon, Denbighshire
Sir John Fortescue of Ponsbourne, Hertfordshire, attainder under Richard III
Sir John Hallwell of Bigbury, Devon
Sir Robert Harcourt of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire
Sir Walter Hungerford* of Heytesbury, Wiltshire, knighted, attainder under
Richard III
Sir Nicholas Latimer of Buckland in Duntish, Dorset
Sir Roger Kynaston of Hordley, Shropshire
Sir Thomas Milbourn of Salisbury, Wiltshire
Sir John Morgan, rewarded after battle
Sir John Mordaunt of Turvey, Bedforshire
Sir James Parker, awarded part of Clevedon, Somerset
Sir Thomas Perrott of Haroldston, Pembrokeshire
Sir Hugh Pershall of Knightley, Staffordshire,
Sir John Risley of Laenham, Suffolk, attainder under Richard III
Sir Brian Sandford ofThorpe Salvin, Yorkshire
Sir Charles Somerset of Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Sir Humphrey Stanley, awarded part of Clevedon, Somerset
Sir Roger Tocotes
Sir John Treffry of Fowey
Sir Richard Tunstall
Sir William Tyler of Snarestone, Leicestershire
Sir Robert Willoughby of Beer Ferrers, Devon
Sir Christopher of Urswick of London
John Lord Welles of Maxey, Northamptonshire,
Sir John Wogan of Wiston, Pembrokeshire
Sir Edward Woodville, rewarded after battle
Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, created Duke of Bedford*
Thomas Lord Stanley of Lathom Lancashire, created Earl of Derby after battle
Sir William Stanley* of Holt Denbighshire, created Chamberlain of Henry VII's
household
Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, created Duke of Bedford*
John de Vere, Earl of Oxford of Hedingham, Essex, created hereditary Great
Chamberlain of England*
John Lord Welles of Maxey, Northamptonshire, awarded property in East
Deeping, Lincolnshire

The following additions can be made to those killed at Bosworth. Not all are
Knights, but are are of landowning families.

William Allington of Horsheath
Richard Bagot of Blithfield (Lan)
John Bernard of Abington
Roger Betham of Betham
Richard Boughton of Little Lawford (killed while recruiting August 20th)
John Brabazon of Eastwell
Henry Brome of Brome (Lan)
Richard Charlton of Edmonton
Robert Claxton of Westhall
Humphrey Cotes of Woodcote
Thomas Curzon of Croxall
Ralph Danby of Little Danby
William Gilpin of Kentmere
Thomas Hampden of Upton
John Harbottle of Beamish (killed August 21st)
Roger Heron of the Ford
Walter Hopton (Treasurer)
John Hutton of Hunwick
John Iwardby of Missenden
John Joyce of Windsor
John Kendal of York
Thomas Lynde of Stoke Lynde
Robert Mortimer of Thorpe-le-Soken
John Mynde of Little Sutton (Lan)
John Nesfield?
Ralph Perceval of Tykenham
John Radcliffe of Radcliffe Tower
John Sacheverall of Ratcliffe on Soar
Geoffrey St German of Broughton
William Sapcote of Burley
Thomas Strange of Walton
Gilbert Swinburne of Chopwell
Ralph Valentine of Flixton
John Whittingham of Pendley (Lan)
Thomas Wingfield of Letheringham
(William Bracher & son - executed)

Altogether its a fairly long list for a battle which is considered to have
been short, and not to have ended in a rout. Men clad in steel plate were
hard to kill, which is why I question the accepted accounts of a relatively
bloodless battle."