the Binche boy

Harking back to the Binche boy, does anyone have any more information
or thoughts as to who he might have been?

I find it very interesting that he was mentioned by name, but it
almost certainly was not his real name. If he was not somebody
fairly significant, would, at age 5 or so, have been traveling under
an alias? It sees more likey that he would have been mentioned
either without a name -- "a young boy" -- or by his actual name, but
instead he is called what obviously isn't his name...even if it
hadn't been the moniker Edward IV's fool went by, Jehan le Sage --
"Wise Jack" or "Smart Little Johnny" -- is not a real name.

Katy

Katy asked: Harking back to the Binche boy, does
anyone have any more information
or thoughts as to who he might have been?

***

I have thoughts, but no more information.

I've compared the years that were covered for the
Binche boy in Margaret of York's accounts to the years
that Anne Wroe gives for Richard of York's (?)
appearances in Portugal.

The Binche boy's expenses appear from 1478 to 1485.
Then he disappears. He was around 12 years old.

There's a gap between the Binche boy's disappearance
from Margaret of York's accounts at the end of 1485
and Richard of York's (?) appearance in Portugal in
1487. Richard of York (?) appeared to be about the
right age, 14/15 when he served as a page in Portugal.

So it's possible that the Binche boy spent his
thirteenth year unaccounted for before going to the
Portuguese court, to serve as a page at age 14.

But I have doubts about a tutor's ability to train a
boy to impersonate a prince. The tutor Margaret hired
for Jehan le Sage might have been capable of teaching
him to do it, but I'm not convinced he did. I'm also
not sure that the political upheavals between
1478-1485 allowed Margaret of York enough time or
privacy to train the Binche boy to impersonate Richard
of York.

Ann Wroe discusses the acting traditions of Tournai
late in the book. But she doesn't claim that the
Binche boy learned that tradition. IIRC, she doesn't
claim that the person who went from Portugal to France
to Burgundy to Scotland to Wales before being captured
by Henry VII drew on the Tournai acting tradition,
either. She just suggests that someone who grew up in
Tournai could have been influenced by the acting
there.

Military training is another problem. Could the tutor
Margaret of York paid have trained the Binche boy to
lead armies? I don't remember Ann Wroe mentioning
anything about military training for the Binche boy.
She does discuss a possible lack of military training
for Richard of York (?). Wroe compares Richard of
York's (?) fear of battle with the fears of other 15th
century nobles. IIRC, one was the Duke of Berry. I
clearly remember that another was Henry VII himself.

I haven't decided whether I believe the Binche boy and
the person Henry VII hunted down and killed were the
same person.

Marion












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Katy wrote: I find it very interesting that he was
mentioned by name, but it almost certainly was not his
real name. If he was not somebody fairly significant,
would, at age 5 or so, have been traveling under
an alias? It sees more likey that he would have been
mentioned either without a name -- "a young boy" -- or
by his actual name, but instead he is called what
obviously isn't his name...even if it hadn't been the
moniker Edward IV's fool went by, Jehan le Sage --
"Wise Jack" or "Smart Little Johnny" -- is not a real
name.

***

Although I haven't found time to read up on Edward,
Earl of Warwick, I've been thinking about the
possibility that he was sent to Margaret of York for
safety in 1478.

Here are a couple of ideas in favor of it:

1 - As a child, George was sent with Richard to
Burgundy for safety.

2 - It's been claimed that George was Margaret of
York's favorite brother.

Sending Edward, Earl of Warwick to Margaret of York
may have seemed like the best way to protect him as
George's position deteriorated.

If "Jehan le Sage" was an alias for Edward, Earl of
Warwick, then someone must have taken his place at
Binche when he returned to England.

Or else Edward, Earl of Warwick didn't return to
England before 1485, and Richard III sent someone else
to Sheriff Hutton, and Henry VII captured, imprisoned
and executed someone else. But why would Richard do
that?

It's possible that Edward, Earl of Warwick was the
same person as the Binche boy. Maybe he found safety
somewhere in Europe and never returned to England or
reclaimed his true identity.

Maybe the person who appeared in Portugal, passed
through the French, Burgundian, and Scottish courts on
his way to Henry VII's gallows was never in Binche.

Right now, I don't know what to think.

Marion


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