Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Some Morton Info
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Some Morton Info
2004-04-07 19:41:23
Who do you think Morton was gunning for in June 1483 - Edward V or
Henry Tudor, though? If Tudor, then would there not have been
problems? The conspiracy to rescue Edward V might have ended in
Morton having him bumped off, but Elizabeth Woodville still had his
younger brother in sanctuary.
======================================
I think he saw Henry Tudor as the Lancastrian alternative and may have been thinking things over seriously from the time that it was clear Edward IV wasn't going to make it. I have a feeling that he may have not considered the Woodvilles to be much of an obstacle without the charismatic figure of Edward and that it may have been fairly easily to neutralize them. I'm not sure how he would have handled the two princes, but if he felt like using mama Cis and the archer to invalidate papa Edward, he could probably have swung that PR move more skillfully than Richard did. Whether Stillington would have shown up at his doorstop is a question; on the other hand, he may have already grapevined something about this rumor because of Stillington's imprisonment (in 1478?). So he would have had two weapons of neutralization at hand.
Henry Tudor would likely have faced a lot of trouble coming in, but would have had the more open backup of Morton (who would likely have remained in England in this scenario), mama Maggie and the ever-reliable Stanley clan (!), as well as anyone swayed (for whatever reason(s)) by Morton's exlpanation of the Yorkist illegtimacy.
In a scenario like this, Richard and Hastings may have found common ground for championing the son of Edward IV, and it looks like it still might have come down to a showdown between Richard and Henry Tudor.
Very rushed as there's a lull in an small emergency here at the office. Sorry if something doesn't make sense, but I'll try to be more forthcoming tonight.
Maria
elena@...
Henry Tudor, though? If Tudor, then would there not have been
problems? The conspiracy to rescue Edward V might have ended in
Morton having him bumped off, but Elizabeth Woodville still had his
younger brother in sanctuary.
======================================
I think he saw Henry Tudor as the Lancastrian alternative and may have been thinking things over seriously from the time that it was clear Edward IV wasn't going to make it. I have a feeling that he may have not considered the Woodvilles to be much of an obstacle without the charismatic figure of Edward and that it may have been fairly easily to neutralize them. I'm not sure how he would have handled the two princes, but if he felt like using mama Cis and the archer to invalidate papa Edward, he could probably have swung that PR move more skillfully than Richard did. Whether Stillington would have shown up at his doorstop is a question; on the other hand, he may have already grapevined something about this rumor because of Stillington's imprisonment (in 1478?). So he would have had two weapons of neutralization at hand.
Henry Tudor would likely have faced a lot of trouble coming in, but would have had the more open backup of Morton (who would likely have remained in England in this scenario), mama Maggie and the ever-reliable Stanley clan (!), as well as anyone swayed (for whatever reason(s)) by Morton's exlpanation of the Yorkist illegtimacy.
In a scenario like this, Richard and Hastings may have found common ground for championing the son of Edward IV, and it looks like it still might have come down to a showdown between Richard and Henry Tudor.
Very rushed as there's a lull in an small emergency here at the office. Sorry if something doesn't make sense, but I'll try to be more forthcoming tonight.
Maria
elena@...
[Richard III Society Forum] Re: Some Morton Info
2004-04-08 11:23:37
--- In , Maria <elena@p...>
wrote:
> Who do you think Morton was gunning for in June 1483 - Edward V or
> Henry Tudor, though? If Tudor, then would there not have been
> problems? The conspiracy to rescue Edward V might have ended in
> Morton having him bumped off, but Elizabeth Woodville still had his
> younger brother in sanctuary.
> ======================================
> I think he saw Henry Tudor as the Lancastrian alternative and may
have been thinking things over seriously from the time that it was
clear Edward IV wasn't going to make it. I have a feeling that he
may have not considered the Woodvilles to be much of an obstacle
without the charismatic figure of Edward and that it may have been
fairly easily to neutralize them. I'm not sure how he would have
handled the two princes, but if he felt like using mama Cis and the
archer to invalidate papa Edward, he could probably have swung that
PR move more skillfully than Richard did.
Yes, I see your point. I suppose that the bastardy thing could have
been used to get Tudor in, once Richard had been disposed of.
Thinking again of 13th June, I suppose the idea would have been that
once Richard was out of the way Elizabeth and her children would have
come straight out of sanctuary, thus solving the access to the Duke
of York problem.
Marie
wrote:
> Who do you think Morton was gunning for in June 1483 - Edward V or
> Henry Tudor, though? If Tudor, then would there not have been
> problems? The conspiracy to rescue Edward V might have ended in
> Morton having him bumped off, but Elizabeth Woodville still had his
> younger brother in sanctuary.
> ======================================
> I think he saw Henry Tudor as the Lancastrian alternative and may
have been thinking things over seriously from the time that it was
clear Edward IV wasn't going to make it. I have a feeling that he
may have not considered the Woodvilles to be much of an obstacle
without the charismatic figure of Edward and that it may have been
fairly easily to neutralize them. I'm not sure how he would have
handled the two princes, but if he felt like using mama Cis and the
archer to invalidate papa Edward, he could probably have swung that
PR move more skillfully than Richard did.
Yes, I see your point. I suppose that the bastardy thing could have
been used to get Tudor in, once Richard had been disposed of.
Thinking again of 13th June, I suppose the idea would have been that
once Richard was out of the way Elizabeth and her children would have
come straight out of sanctuary, thus solving the access to the Duke
of York problem.
Marie
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