Going to see Dr. Appleby tonight

Sorry to anyone who gets this twice. Sent it by email seven hours ago and not showing up. Trying again directly from the site. Dr. Appleby is giving a lecture at the Royal Alberta Museum in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks to Tracy Bryce for alerting me, otherwise I likely wouldn't have known about it. My nerdy little mind is actually quite excited.

She's giving a lecture at the Royal Alberta Museum in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks to Tracy Bryce for alerting me, otherwise I likely wouldn't have known about it. My nerdy little mind is actually quite excited.

= = = = = = = = =
Angie Telepenko
http://www.angietelepenko.com
http://moonlitwalk.blogspot.com
Are you smarter than me? http://www.funtrivia.com/private/main.cfm?tid=9

I'm also posting this in a few Facebook groups so apologies to anyone who sees this more than once. So the talk was quite entertaining. She comes across a lot warmer than her appearance in "The King in the Car Park" would indicate, and is actually rather funny. There was a slide show to go along with it, which was informative as long as you ignored the couple of errors in the family trees, which I'm sure only anoraks like me would have noticed anyway. One thing that irked me a bit was when she gave a brief explanation of the Wars of the Roses and said that R3 "decided to have" E5 declared illegitimate so that he could have a go at the throne, but at least she didn't say that he killed him or H6!

She was asked about the lead coffin which was also discovered in the Friary, and she said she won't be working on that skeleton as she is pregnant so she can't work on anything that has lead involved.

Afterwards there was a short reception where she was invited to help cut cake for the 20th anniversary of this museum lecture series. She was very accessible to people coming up and talking to her, taking photos, etc. I didn't go up as I just get tongue-tied in situations like that.

---In , <gooble@...> wrote:

Sorry to anyone who gets this twice. Sent it by email seven hours ago and not showing up. Trying again directly from the site. Dr. Appleby is giving a lecture at the Royal Alberta Museum in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks to Tracy Bryce for alerting me, otherwise I likely wouldn't have known about it. My nerdy little mind is actually quite excited.

Did anyone ask Jo Appleby why she, as an osteologist, was swinging a
mattock (of all things) in the trench in which the bones had already
largely been exposed?

Nic.

--
This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.

Only four questions were allowed after the talk - and no she didn't mention the mattock blunder at all.

---In , <marcodubnos@...> wrote:

Did anyone ask Jo Appleby why she, as an osteologist, was swinging a
mattock (of all things) in the trench in which the bones had already
largely been exposed?

Nic.

--
This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.

Hi
Philippa suggests in her book it was because it was not expected for the skull to be where it was because it should have been at a lower level commensurate with the rest of the remains. It was higher than expected because the body had been put into a hastily dug grave that was too short and therefore the head was in the wrong place technically speaking and not in the place it should have been.
Elaine

--- In , nic ford <marcodubnos@...> wrote:
>
> Did anyone ask Jo Appleby why she, as an osteologist, was swinging a
> mattock (of all things) in the trench in which the bones had already
> largely been exposed?
>
> Nic.
>
> --
> This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.
>

Immaterial Elaine. No self respecting archaeologist ever uses a mattock!
Paul

On 22/10/2013 01:23, ellrosa1452 wrote:
> Hi
> Philippa suggests in her book it was because it was not expected for the skull to be where it was because it should have been at a lower level commensurate with the rest of the remains. It was higher than expected because the body had been put into a hastily dug grave that was too short and therefore the head was in the wrong place technically speaking and not in the place it should have been.
> Elaine
>
> --- In , nic ford <marcodubnos@...> wrote:
>> Did anyone ask Jo Appleby why she, as an osteologist, was swinging a
>> mattock (of all things) in the trench in which the bones had already
>> largely been exposed?
>>
>> Nic.
>>
>> --
>> This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Richard Liveth Yet!

Philippa is not an archaeologist. If you want to excavate a grave you
expose the entire feature and work your way down, layer by layer. A
feature that appears small for the probable size of the bones you've
already uncovered with an exploratory trench, should lead you to
expect that the upper body will be doubled up and therefore at a
somewhat higher level than the feet. My best guess is that the
production crew (who had various agenda other than making a straight,
informative documentary) asked Jo to stand in the trench and swing a
mattock, Jo obliged because she's not an experienced excavator, and
there was no serious onsite supervision at the time - otherwise I am
sure it would not have been allowed.

Nic



--
This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.

The time factor seemed to be driving the whole project and the focus of the ULAS had moved onto the third trench in which they were finding quite a lot of evidence of the Greyfriars. Trench one had been explored at the beginning of the dig in week one and the remains uncovered there. It appears to have been relegated as far as the team were concerned as they were looking for proof of the Greyfriars. Also the licence to remove the remains meant that there was a delay and it was a Bank Holiday . It should have been Turi King and Jo Appleby, who recovered the remains, but King was unable to do the exhumation as she was at a conference in Switzerland and it was left to Appleby. She was not originally the osteologist when the project was mooted but by the time of the dig had been assigned. Also, at the beginning of the dig when the team was using an excavator to remove clods of earth, debris and rubble, one of the leg bones was damaged.

I was not suggesting that Philippa is an archeologist and giving her expert opinion. It was how Philippa explained it in the book as she gives a running commentary on the events as they were happening. She tries to be as objective as possible putting forward both her own point of view and that of the other partners.
Elaine


--- In , nic ford <marcodubnos@...> wrote:
>
> Philippa is not an archaeologist. If you want to excavate a grave you
> expose the entire feature and work your way down, layer by layer. A
> feature that appears small for the probable size of the bones you've
> already uncovered with an exploratory trench, should lead you to
> expect that the upper body will be doubled up and therefore at a
> somewhat higher level than the feet. My best guess is that the
> production crew (who had various agenda other than making a straight,
> informative documentary) asked Jo to stand in the trench and swing a
> mattock, Jo obliged because she's not an experienced excavator, and
> there was no serious onsite supervision at the time - otherwise I am
> sure it would not have been allowed.
>
> Nic
>
>
>
> --
> This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.
>

The overburden of dirt was being mattocked/spaded off because medieval burials *inside churches* were always laid out flat in proper graves. Burials were simple w/o grave goods. Therefore the archeologists' knowledge base to date told them that this layer would be empty. Digs are always under time and money constraints, so choices have to be made. Speaking as someone who has volunteered a bit at digs in the US and UK, I don't believe Dr. Appleby did anything unreasonable or substandard--it's just that this particular burial was not typical, in more ways than one.

Anne

---In , <marcodubnos@...> wrote:

Did anyone ask Jo Appleby why she, as an osteologist, was swinging a
mattock (of all things) in the trench in which the bones had already
largely been exposed?

Nic.

--
This space for an email signature has intentionally been left blank.

Elaine wrote:

"Philippa suggests in her book it was because it was not expected for the skull to be where it was because it should have been at a lower level commensurate with the rest of the remains. It was higher than expected because the body had been put into a hastily dug grave that was too short and therefore the head was in the wrong place technically speaking and not in the place it should have been."

Carol responds:

Still, if a skull isn't where you expect it to be, you know it's somewhere in the grave, and you don't swing a mattock hoping you won't hit it! Sorry, but I'm no fan of Jo Appleby, and I find it grating that the man she gleefully called a hunchback on a widely viewed program in front of the devastated Philippa Langley has established her career. Kudos to Philippa for her magnanimity, but I suspect that I'd have been less generous in her place. Maybe Philippa is following the example of Richard III in being merciful to his detractors.

Carol

I get the impression from the book that there is another interpretation waiting to be told and whether Philippa will eventually or ever do that we will have to wait and see but she is holding a lot back and as you say trying to be magnanimous. However, her sadness is apparent at the way JAH was not invited to the 4 February presentation and by that point she is less sure of the way it is now being handled as she is losing control as the UoL have taken over and from that time on taking the lead in subsequent events.
Elaine

--- In , <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> Elaine wrote:
>
> "Philippa suggests in her book it was because it was not expected for the skull to be where it was because it should have been at a lower level commensurate with the rest of the remains. It was higher than expected because the body had been put into a hastily dug grave that was too short and therefore the head was in the wrong place technically speaking and not in the place it should have been."
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Still, if a skull isn't where you expect it to be, you know it's somewhere in the grave, and you don't swing a mattock hoping you won't hit it! Sorry, but I'm no fan of Jo Appleby, and I find it grating that the man she gleefully called a hunchback on a widely viewed program in front of the devastated Philippa Langley has established her career. Kudos to Philippa for her magnanimity, but I suspect that I'd have been less generous in her place. Maybe Philippa is following the example of Richard III in being merciful to his detractors.
>
> Carol
>