Those Staffords again (when will they ever learn)

In Thursday's Daily Mail, I read some background information on Thomas Stafford and his execution in 1557.
He led a group in taking Scarborough Castle by stealth. When it was recaptured, the group were hanged without trial.

Just to remind you of where he fits in geneologically, he was the grandson of Edward Stafford (Duke of Buckingham, x.1521) and great-grandson of Henry Stafford (Duke of Buckingham, Richard's bete noire). His mother was Ursula Pole, daughter of Richard and Margaret.
Incidentally, after 1521, their ducal title was discontinued as Henry VIII decided they were not wealthy enough to justify it.

Comment: Duke Edward was probably executed for arranging the marriage between his son and Ursula Pole (bringing two alternative royal lines together). At his trial, he produced evidence about Edward IV's marriages and legitimacy - does that explain why Mary executed his grandson summarily?

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@t...> wrote:
> In Thursday's Daily Mail, I read some background information on
Thomas Stafford and his execution in 1557.
> He led a group in taking Scarborough Castle by stealth. When it
was recaptured, the group were hanged without trial.
>
> Just to remind you of where he fits in geneologically, he was the
grandson of Edward Stafford (Duke of Buckingham, x.1521) and great-
grandson of Henry Stafford (Duke of Buckingham, Richard's bete
noire). His mother was Ursula Pole, daughter of Richard and Margaret.
> Incidentally, after 1521, their ducal title was discontinued as
Henry VIII decided they were not wealthy enough to justify it.
>
> Comment: Duke Edward was probably executed for arranging the
marriage between his son and Ursula Pole (bringing two alternative
royal lines together). At his trial, he produced evidence about
Edward IV's marriages and legitimacy - does that explain why Mary
executed his grandson summarily?

I doubt it, Paul. He had French backing and his invasion actually
provided the pretext for the declaration of war against France which
Phillip had been urging and Mary resisting. I suspect that the
French did this knowing the likely response so thay could, in turn,
justify an assault upon Calais. They certainly had no belief that
Stafford would be successful, sniggering behind their hands and
referring to him as the King of Scarborough. As I understand it,
howver, Stafford's prime aim was the restitution of the dukedom
rather than any plan for the crown. Still you never knew!
B
>
>

Brunhilde wrote: They certainly had no belief that
Stafford would be successful, sniggering behind their
hands and referring to him as the King of Scarborough.
As I understand it, howver, Stafford's prime aim was
the restitution of the dukedom rather than any plan
for the crown. Still you never knew!

***

This sounds familiar. Didn't Henry IV say he was only
reclaiming his dukedom before he deposed Richard II?
Didn't Edward IV say he was only reclaiming his
dukedom when he returned in 1471?

Maybe that's why it didn't work for Stafford.

Marion





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--- In , "brunhild613"
<brunhild@n...> wrote:
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <smlark@t...> wrote:
> > In Thursday's Daily Mail, I read some background information on
> Thomas Stafford and his execution in 1557.
> > He led a group in taking Scarborough Castle by stealth. When it
> was recaptured, the group were hanged without trial.


What's with this Scarborough business?

Probably just a funny coincidence, but 'Perkin Warbeck' formally
promised to give Margaret of Burgundy Scarborough plus another manor
when he became king. The other manor was an old one of York's in the
south, and may even have been Margaret's birthplace, but she had no
known link with Scarborough, which didn't have any particular Yorkist
associations until Edward IV granted it to Richard III in the 1470s.
Of course, Richard III was there in the summer of 1484, and it is on
the east coast.
Was it part of the Stafford landholdings in the 16th century? Or not?
Does anybody know?

Marie

--- In , marion davis
<phaecilia@y...> wrote:
> Brunhilde wrote: They certainly had no belief that
> Stafford would be successful, sniggering behind their
> hands and referring to him as the King of Scarborough.
> As I understand it, howver, Stafford's prime aim was
> the restitution of the dukedom rather than any plan
> for the crown. Still you never knew!
>
> ***
>
> This sounds familiar. Didn't Henry IV say he was only
> reclaiming his dukedom before he deposed Richard II?
> Didn't Edward IV say he was only reclaiming his
> dukedom when he returned in 1471?
>
> Maybe that's why it didn't work for Stafford.
>
> Marion
>
Absolutely. Lying through their teeth too. So while he said one
thing maybe he meant another and the French knew better!
B
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

--- In , "mariewalsh2003"
<marie@r...> wrote:
> --- In , "brunhild613"
> <brunhild@n...> wrote:
> > --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> > <smlark@t...> wrote:
> > > In Thursday's Daily Mail, I read some background information
on
> > Thomas Stafford and his execution in 1557.
> > > He led a group in taking Scarborough Castle by stealth. When
it
> > was recaptured, the group were hanged without trial.
>
>
> What's with this Scarborough business?
>
> Probably just a funny coincidence, but 'Perkin Warbeck' formally
> promised to give Margaret of Burgundy Scarborough plus another
manor
> when he became king. The other manor was an old one of York's in
the
> south, and may even have been Margaret's birthplace, but she had
no
> known link with Scarborough, which didn't have any particular
Yorkist
> associations until Edward IV granted it to Richard III in the
1470s.
> Of course, Richard III was there in the summer of 1484, and it is
on
> the east coast.
> Was it part of the Stafford landholdings in the 16th century? Or
not?
> Does anybody know?
>
> Marie

Sorry I don't know that one, but may be able to find out. I was
wondering if it was chosen for prosaic reasons: it's in the Catholic
north-east where the Pilgrimage of Grace and later the Northern
Rebellion both sought Catholicism's return. It is a defensible site,
although the castle was almost certainly past its heyday, from which
to launch a campaign whilst having a relatively secure base. And it
is accessible by ship, since that is how Stafford got there.
B

--- In , "brunhild613"
<brunhild@n...> wrote:
> --- In , "mariewalsh2003"
> <marie@r...> wrote:
> > --- In , "brunhild613"
> > <brunhild@n...> wrote:
> > > --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> > > <smlark@t...> wrote:
> > > > In Thursday's Daily Mail, I read some background information
> on
> > > Thomas Stafford and his execution in 1557.
> > > > He led a group in taking Scarborough Castle by stealth. When
> it
> > > was recaptured, the group were hanged without trial.
> >
> >
> > What's with this Scarborough business?
> >
> > Probably just a funny coincidence, but 'Perkin Warbeck' formally
> > promised to give Margaret of Burgundy Scarborough plus another
> manor
> > when he became king. The other manor was an old one of York's in
> the
> > south, and may even have been Margaret's birthplace, but she had
> no
> > known link with Scarborough, which didn't have any particular
> Yorkist
> > associations until Edward IV granted it to Richard III in the
> 1470s.
> > Of course, Richard III was there in the summer of 1484, and it
is
> on
> > the east coast.
> > Was it part of the Stafford landholdings in the 16th century? Or
> not?
> > Does anybody know?
> >
> > Marie
>
> Sorry I don't know that one, but may be able to find out. I was
> wondering if it was chosen for prosaic reasons: it's in the
Catholic
> north-east where the Pilgrimage of Grace and later the Northern
> Rebellion both sought Catholicism's return. It is a defensible
site,
> although the castle was almost certainly past its heyday, from
which
> to launch a campaign whilst having a relatively secure base. And
it
> is accessible by ship, since that is how Stafford got there.
> B

So far this is all I have been able to find: in 1536 the castle was
held by Sir Ralph Evers who held the castle for the king and
withsoood the siege of Robert Aske during the Pilgrimage of Grace.
B