Ankarette Twynyho
Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-28 11:05:30
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be.
Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young.
So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington.
It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
Re: Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-28 11:13:52
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be.
Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young.
So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington.
It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
www.Antiques-Boutique.com Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
Re: Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-28 11:21:32
And by coincidence the ancestral home of 'Jones the hubby' :) H (OT who used to work with Oswestry College and knows it quite well - lovely)
On Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13, "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...> wrote:
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be. Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young. So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington. It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
http://www.antiques-boutique.com/ Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
On Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13, "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...> wrote:
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be. Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young. So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington. It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
http://www.antiques-boutique.com/ Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
Re: Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-28 21:32:32
This is fascinating. I've been to Moreton Corbett a few times. I grew up in Stafford and we often drove around Shropshire. There's a ruined castle, a church and the remains of a house which might be Jacobean or possibly Civil War period. It's lovely.
Hello Lisa, by the way! Liz
From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be. Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young. So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington. It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
www.Antiques-Boutique.com Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
Hello Lisa, by the way! Liz
From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be. Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young. So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington. It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
www.Antiques-Boutique.com Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
Re: Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-28 22:26:50
haha - Hi Liz - fancy seeing you here ;-) xx
On 28 November 2013 17:25, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
On 28 November 2013 17:25, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
This is fascinating. I've been to Moreton Corbett a few times. I grew up in Stafford and we often drove around Shropshire. There's a ruined castle, a church and the remains of a house which might be Jacobean or possibly Civil War period. It's lovely.
Hello Lisa, by the way!
Liz
From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be.
Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young.
So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington.
It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
www.Antiques-Boutique.com Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
www.Antiques-Boutique.com Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
Re: Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-30 10:32:55
Yes hello Lisa too! Sorry I did mean Moreton with an 'e', there's another one without near Oswestry isn't there? I think from wiki (what shame!) the Jacobean house is one that was built by the successors to the Hawkestones? That whole area is very under-rated but perhaps it's better off the tourist trail. I had it good, I used to visit Ludlow too. H.
On Thursday, 28 November 2013, 22:26, "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...> wrote:
haha - Hi Liz - fancy seeing you here ;-) xx
On 28 November 2013 17:25, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
This is fascinating. I've been to Moreton Corbett a few times. I grew up in Stafford and we often drove around Shropshire. There's a ruined castle, a church and the remains of a house which might be Jacobean or possibly Civil War period. It's lovely.
Hello Lisa, by the way! Liz
From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be. Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young. So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington. It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
http://www.antiques-boutique.com/ Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
http://www.antiques-boutique.com/ Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
On Thursday, 28 November 2013, 22:26, "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...> wrote:
haha - Hi Liz - fancy seeing you here ;-) xx
On 28 November 2013 17:25, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
This is fascinating. I've been to Moreton Corbett a few times. I grew up in Stafford and we often drove around Shropshire. There's a ruined castle, a church and the remains of a house which might be Jacobean or possibly Civil War period. It's lovely.
Hello Lisa, by the way! Liz
From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...thank you for that!
On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be. Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young. So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington. It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments H.
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
http://www.antiques-boutique.com/ Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
--
LisaThe Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services Baddeck, Nova Scotia.Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
http://www.antiques-boutique.com/ Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique View our Ceramic Restoration Photos
Re: Ankarette Twynyho
2013-11-30 12:28:29
--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
I used to visit Ludlow too. H.
I love Ludlow....absolutely....just thought I would mention it :0) Eileen
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 28 November 2013, 22:26, "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...> wrote:
>
> Â
> haha - Hi Liz - fancy seeing you here ;-) xx
>
>
>
> On 28 November 2013 17:25, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Â
> >This is fascinating. Â I've been to Moreton Corbett a few times. I grew up in Stafford and we often drove around Shropshire. Â There's a ruined castle, a church and the remains of a house which might be Jacobean or possibly Civil War period. Â It's lovely.
> >
> >
> >Hello Lisa, by the way!
> >
> >
> >Liz
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
> >To:
> >Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
> >Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...
> >thank you for that!
> >
> >
> >
> >On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Â
> >>Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be.
> >>Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young.
> >>So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington.
> >>It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments  H.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Lisa
> >The Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
> >Baddeck, Nova Scotia.
> >Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
> >
> >
> >http://www.antiques-boutique.com/%c3%82%c2%a0
> >Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
> >View our Ceramic Restoration PhotosÂ
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Lisa
> The Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
> Baddeck, Nova Scotia.
> Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
>
> http://www.antiques-boutique.com/%c3%82%c2%a0
> Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
> View our Ceramic Restoration PhotosÂ
>
>
I used to visit Ludlow too. H.
I love Ludlow....absolutely....just thought I would mention it :0) Eileen
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 28 November 2013, 22:26, "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...> wrote:
>
> Â
> haha - Hi Liz - fancy seeing you here ;-) xx
>
>
>
> On 28 November 2013 17:25, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Â
> >This is fascinating. Â I've been to Moreton Corbett a few times. I grew up in Stafford and we often drove around Shropshire. Â There's a ruined castle, a church and the remains of a house which might be Jacobean or possibly Civil War period. Â It's lovely.
> >
> >
> >Hello Lisa, by the way!
> >
> >
> >Liz
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: "Lisa @ The Antiques Boutique" <lisa.holtjones@...>
> >To:
> >Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 11:13
> >Subject: Re: Ankarette Twynyho
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >how very interesting - & close to my home area Oswestry. A lot of places called Moreton around there...
> >thank you for that!
> >
> >
> >
> >On 28 November 2013 07:05, <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Â
> >>Whilst I was pursuing the Bish through SW England I, not surprisingly, bumped into the Twynyhos. I noticed at the time that Ankarette did not come from Somerset, but from Shropshire and whereas her husband and children seem to be of the Bristol merchant class, she was of a different background; so not quite the little innocent widow she was made out to be.
> >>Ankarette's maiden name is Hawkestone which makes her the daughter of George Hawkstone, MP and Escheator for Salop. The Hawkestones came from near Morton Corbet Salop, the home of the Corbet family. In fact Ankarette's son John married Joan Corbet the daughter of Roger Corbet of Morton. The Hawkestones and the Corbets were friends of Lord Audley and fought for Lancaster at Blore Heath. Hawkestone and Morton are situated on the Welsh borders near Oswestry, but close to Stafford and Stanley territory. And Ankarette's brother seems to have fought with the Talbots, both old and young.
> >>So was our George really barking when he arrested Ankarette? His accusations about the poison in the beer seem farfetched but was there something else he was suspicious about? She knew the Talbots, did she also know about Eleanor? Did she pass the knowledge on, and not, as is often surmised, Stillington.
> >>It's probably all smoke without fire, but it's interesting and shows how you can't neglect the 'bit' players. I'm sure there are plenty of counter arguments  H.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Lisa
> >The Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
> >Baddeck, Nova Scotia.
> >Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
> >
> >
> >http://www.antiques-boutique.com/%c3%82%c2%a0
> >Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
> >View our Ceramic Restoration PhotosÂ
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Lisa
> The Antiques Boutique & Ceramic Restoration/Conservation Services
> Baddeck, Nova Scotia.
> Tel: 902 295 9013 / 1329
>
> http://www.antiques-boutique.com/%c3%82%c2%a0
> Like us on www.facebook.com/TheAntiquesBoutique
> View our Ceramic Restoration PhotosÂ
>
Ankarette Twynyho
2017-07-05 14:56:38
Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette.
Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls:
'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.'
Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother.
There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469.Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him?
Any ideas? H
Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette Twynyho
2017-07-05 16:43:23
Hilary,
If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon?
My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source?
Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something?
Doug
Hilary wrote:
Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette.
Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?--
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Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette Twynyho
2017-07-05 17:12:15
The point is Doug the manor hadn't been given to her mother. The 1395 deed lay out a claim naming Alana as the only heir of Robert Kendale senior and his son Robert Kendale junior (her father) and one of the Shropshire commentaries asks who this younger Robert Kendale junior was. Robert Kendale senior was almost certainly the same one who, with Ankarette's other grandfather, Sir John Haukeston, murdered William Lacon in front of Bolingbroke as part of a land dispute and was pardoned.
Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advanced Search
Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advance...
Perhaps Ankarette asked him to do it and he got some reward out of it? She was the heir as the child of her mother's first marriage and after her death her grandson Roger Twynyho was. The Twynyhos were also at one point very friendly with Clarence - well her son John Twynyho, was so perhaps they offered Thomas advancement there? H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 16:45
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon? My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source? Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something? Doug Hilary wrote: Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette. Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?
--
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Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advanced Search
Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advance...
Perhaps Ankarette asked him to do it and he got some reward out of it? She was the heir as the child of her mother's first marriage and after her death her grandson Roger Twynyho was. The Twynyhos were also at one point very friendly with Clarence - well her son John Twynyho, was so perhaps they offered Thomas advancement there? H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 16:45
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon? My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source? Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something? Doug Hilary wrote: Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette. Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?
--
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Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette Twynyho
2017-07-06 12:52:33
Doug I do apologise, I think I got the inheritance thing wrong and under 'primogeniture' Thomas would have been the heir, a bit like Henry Duke of Warwick.
What I was getting at is that this is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir.
Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 16:45
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon? My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source? Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something? Doug Hilary wrote: Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette. Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?
--
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What I was getting at is that this is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir.
Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 16:45
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon? My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source? Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something? Doug Hilary wrote: Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette. Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?
--
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette
2017-07-06 17:15:59
From: mailto:
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 12:08 PM
To:
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed}
Ankarette Twynyho
The point is Doug the manor hadn't been given to her mother. The 1395 deed lay out a claim naming Alana as the only heir of Robert Kendale senior and his son Robert Kendale junior (her father) and one of the Shropshire commentaries asks who this younger Robert Kendale junior was. Robert Kendale senior was almost certainly the same one who, with Ankarette's other grandfather, Sir John Haukeston, murdered William Lacon in front of Bolingbroke as part of a land dispute and was pardoned. Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advanced Search
Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advance... Perhaps Ankarette asked him to do it and he got some reward out of it? She was the heir as the child of her mother's first marriage and after her death her grandson Roger Twynyho was. The Twynyhos were also at one point very friendly with Clarence - well her son John Twynyho, was so perhaps they offered Thomas advancement there? H From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 16:45
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon? My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source? Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something? Doug Hilary wrote: Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette. Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?
--
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The point is Doug the manor hadn't been given to her mother. The 1395 deed lay out a claim naming Alana as the only heir of Robert Kendale senior and his son Robert Kendale junior (her father) and one of the Shropshire commentaries asks who this younger Robert Kendale junior was. Robert Kendale senior was almost certainly the same one who, with Ankarette's other grandfather, Sir John Haukeston, murdered William Lacon in front of Bolingbroke as part of a land dispute and was pardoned. Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advanced Search
Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advance... Perhaps Ankarette asked him to do it and he got some reward out of it? She was the heir as the child of her mother's first marriage and after her death her grandson Roger Twynyho was. The Twynyhos were also at one point very friendly with Clarence - well her son John Twynyho, was so perhaps they offered Thomas advancement there? H From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 16:45
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, If I understand correctly what you've laid out below, in 1469 Burdon forged a quitclaim that gave Ankarette and her husband the deed to a manor in Shropshire that was already Ankarette's via her mother? However, the quitclaim of 1469, if I understand correctly, was forged by Burdon? My first thought is, why was Burdon surrendering any rights to something he, as far as we know, had no right to from the beginning? Secondly, if the quitclaim was forged, why was it Burdon doing the forging? As Ankarette's half-brother, it would seem more likely that it was Ankarette, or her husband, who would do the forging in order to have a completely clear title; especially if there was any dispute. Perhaps Burdon was supposed to receive some income from the estate of Ankarette's mother and her second husband and this manor was, perhaps verbally, agreed on as the source? Still doesn't explain why, Burdon forged the quitclaim, though. Or have I missed something? Doug Hilary wrote: Recent conversations on here re George encouraged me to re-visit my stuff on Ankarette. Firstly, she might not have been quite as old as I thought, more like 50-60. But secondly, I'd forgotten a very strange document in the Shropshire archives. It's a deed, dated 1395, by which Ankarette's mother, Alana Kendale, later wife of William Burdon, inherits all her father and grandfather's property in Soulton Salop and, if you go to the Close Rolls: 'Thomas Burdon son and heir of Alene Burdon, to William Twynyho esquire and Ankareta his wife and their heirs etc. Quitclaim with warranty of the manor of Sulton co. Salop with all its appurtenances. Witnesses: William Oteley and Thomas Pusbury bailiffs of Shrewsbury, Thomas Acton, learned in the law, Thomas Thornes, John Trentham esquires, Richard Oteley, Richard Lyghe, Richard Twyford. And since his seal is to many unknown, he has affixed that of the town of Shrewsbury. Dated 8 May, 10 Edward IV.' Thomas Burdon was Ankarette's half-brother. There is also a later deed in the Close Rolls of 1484 which transfers the lands from Burdon to Roger Twynyho, so it's still held to be valid. Now what is strange is that the document is a forgery and contains a signed statement that Thomas Burdon forged it in 1469. Did Clarence somehow get to know of this and was there some sort of stand-off between him and the Twynyhos with perhaps Ankarette threatening to reveal something about him? Any ideas?
--
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette
2017-07-06 18:26:00
Hilary,
I'm still wandering,
but I think I see light at the end of that tunnel!
Am I correct in
presuming that Ankarette did inherit her grandfather's and father's
properties?
Am I also correct in
presuming that her inheritance did include the manor in Soulton? (If
not, when/how was it acquired and, even more importantly, who had been turned
out of their property?)
But, for some unknown
reason, in 1469 Burdon went ahead and forged a deed that gave Ankarette title to
property she already owned, or at least held possession of? Then Burdon
followed that forgery with a quit-claim to the manor? (Thus giving Ankarette
two legal papers that said she owned Soulton.)
Finally, at some
point in the reign of Edward IV, Burdon admitted his forgery.
And your question is:
What did Burdon get out of this forgery? Why did he forge a deed and then sign a
quit-claim to that same property?
You got
me!
The only thing I can
come up with is that the Soulton manor may have been part of the land dispute
that led to Lacon's murder and, what with a possible return of the Lancastrians
to power in the offing, Ankarette & Co. wanted proof of ownership of a
property that might be contested should Henry VI and, more importantly, his
Lancastrian supporters return to power. If not, when/how was it acquired and,
even more importantly, who was/had been turned out of their
property?)
Other than
that...nothing.
Doug
Who hopes that
earlier light wasn't just marshy vapors...
Hilary
wrote:
The point is Doug the
manor hadn't been given to her mother. The 1395 deed lay out a claim naming
Alana as the only heir of Robert Kendale senior and his son Robert Kendale
junior (her father) and one of the Shropshire commentaries asks who this younger
Robert Kendale junior was. Robert Kendale senior was almost certainly the same
one who, with Ankarette's other grandfather, Sir John Haukeston, murdered
William Lacon in front of Bolingbroke as part of a land dispute and was
pardoned.
Shropshire's
History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advanced Search
Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advance... Perhaps Ankarette asked him to do it and he got some reward out of it? She was the heir as the child of her mother's first marriage and after her death her grandson Roger Twynyho was. The Twynyhos were also at one point very friendly with Clarence - well her son John Twynyho, was so perhaps they offered Thomas advancement there?
--
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Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advance... Perhaps Ankarette asked him to do it and he got some reward out of it? She was the heir as the child of her mother's first marriage and after her death her grandson Roger Twynyho was. The Twynyhos were also at one point very friendly with Clarence - well her son John Twynyho, was so perhaps they offered Thomas advancement there?
--
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette
2017-07-06 18:33:15
Hilary,
Now land fraud I can
understand!
So the forgery could
simply have been insurance against the possible return of Hugh?
And, should Hugh
return, there'd be that deed and the quit-claim as proof of legal
ownership.
Not to worry about
the rushing it provided me with several hours of mental activity which, or
so I understand, is vital once one reaches, um, a certain age...
Doug
Hilary
wrote:
Doug I do apologise, I
think I got the inheritance thing wrong and under 'primogeniture' Thomas
would have been the heir, a bit like Henry Duke of Warwick.
What I was getting at is that this
is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had
other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was
the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir.
Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off.
h
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette
2017-07-07 09:19:17
I quite understand, Doug!
I wonder if Hugh was dead? You see his son, John, would just about be coming of age in 1469. Did someone bring Soulton to Burdon and Ankarette's attention and were they trying to grab it before he did? Incidentally, Hugh's line is quite well researched due to one of your compatriots looking for ancestors - they never fail to impress with the depth of their research. You can see it has the Shropshire Archives mystified too. Yet another strange thing in the life of Ankarette.
We could do with the IPM on Robert Kendale senior. Off to dig again. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2017, 18:35
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, Now land fraud I can understand! So the forgery could simply have been insurance against the possible return of Hugh? And, should Hugh return, there'd be that deed and the quit-claim as proof of legal ownership. Not to worry about the rushing it provided me with several hours of mental activity which, or so I understand, is vital once one reaches, um, a certain age... Doug Hilary wrote: Doug I do apologise, I think I got the inheritance thing wrong and under 'primogeniture' Thomas would have been the heir, a bit like Henry Duke of Warwick. What I was getting at is that this is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir. Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off. h
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I wonder if Hugh was dead? You see his son, John, would just about be coming of age in 1469. Did someone bring Soulton to Burdon and Ankarette's attention and were they trying to grab it before he did? Incidentally, Hugh's line is quite well researched due to one of your compatriots looking for ancestors - they never fail to impress with the depth of their research. You can see it has the Shropshire Archives mystified too. Yet another strange thing in the life of Ankarette.
We could do with the IPM on Robert Kendale senior. Off to dig again. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2017, 18:35
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, Now land fraud I can understand! So the forgery could simply have been insurance against the possible return of Hugh? And, should Hugh return, there'd be that deed and the quit-claim as proof of legal ownership. Not to worry about the rushing it provided me with several hours of mental activity which, or so I understand, is vital once one reaches, um, a certain age... Doug Hilary wrote: Doug I do apologise, I think I got the inheritance thing wrong and under 'primogeniture' Thomas would have been the heir, a bit like Henry Duke of Warwick. What I was getting at is that this is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir. Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off. h
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Ankarette
2017-07-07 10:14:49
Amazing what you find when you dig:
Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richard Lacon
Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richa... A guest post by Ted Powell highlights an unusual accusation of treason against a leading supporter of Henry V ...
William Burdon was Alana's second husband and father of Thomas.
I think you could say they were a naughty lot :) H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2017, 18:35
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, Now land fraud I can understand! So the forgery could simply have been insurance against the possible return of Hugh? And, should Hugh return, there'd be that deed and the quit-claim as proof of legal ownership. Not to worry about the rushing it provided me with several hours of mental activity which, or so I understand, is vital once one reaches, um, a certain age... Doug Hilary wrote: Doug I do apologise, I think I got the inheritance thing wrong and under 'primogeniture' Thomas would have been the heir, a bit like Henry Duke of Warwick. What I was getting at is that this is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir. Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off. h
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Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richard Lacon
Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richa... A guest post by Ted Powell highlights an unusual accusation of treason against a leading supporter of Henry V ...
William Burdon was Alana's second husband and father of Thomas.
I think you could say they were a naughty lot :) H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2017, 18:35
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, Now land fraud I can understand! So the forgery could simply have been insurance against the possible return of Hugh? And, should Hugh return, there'd be that deed and the quit-claim as proof of legal ownership. Not to worry about the rushing it provided me with several hours of mental activity which, or so I understand, is vital once one reaches, um, a certain age... Doug Hilary wrote: Doug I do apologise, I think I got the inheritance thing wrong and under 'primogeniture' Thomas would have been the heir, a bit like Henry Duke of Warwick. What I was getting at is that this is again almost certainly land fraud. You see we know Robert Lord of Soulton had other sons, Hugh for one, who also had sons. Unless the untraceable Robert was the eldest, then Alana would certainly not have been the heir. Sorry again. I was rushing off - should never reply when rushing off. h
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Fo
2017-07-07 15:51:44
Hilary,
Hugh
coming of age in/around 1469, would certainly give a reason for Burdon's
forgery, which only(?!?) leaves the question of <i>how</i> the
Twynyhos got hold of the manor in the first place.
Best
of luck digging !
Doug
Hiary
wrote:
I quite understand,
Doug!
I wonder if Hugh was dead?
You see his son, John, would just about be coming of age in 1469. Did someone
bring Soulton to Burdon and Ankarette's attention and were they trying to grab
it before he did? Incidentally, Hugh's line is quite well researched due to one
of your compatriots looking for ancestors - they never fail to impress with the
depth of their research. You can see it has the Shropshire Archives mystified
too. Yet another strange thing in the life of Ankarette.
We could do with the IPM
on Robert Kendale senior. Off to dig again. H
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Fo
2017-07-07 16:08:57
Hilary,
After reading the
article in your link, I did a Google on Sir Richard Lacon and
got:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/lacon-richard-1446
and
discovered he was a Commissioner of Inquiry in Shropshire in
<i>1422</i>, but there's no mention of what the Commission
inquired into. Might the accusation have been a result of that
inquiry?
Doug
Who
is beginning to wonder what this bunch'll be up to next!
Hilary
wrote:
Amazing what you find when you
dig:
Treason
in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richard
Lacon
Treason
in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir
Richa...
A
guest post by Ted Powell highlights an unusual accusation of
treason against a leading supporter of Henry V ...
William Burdon was Alana's second
husband and father of Thomas.
I think you could say they were a naughty lot :) H
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Fo
2017-07-08 09:11:39
What it says to me is if I'd been Clarence in 1476, disturbed, heartbroken and wanting revenge for the death of Isabel (which a lot of people do after traumatic deaths) and my spies came up with this for the background of AT, who we know was there at the time, then I can quite understand how he honed in on her. She's not only the granddaughter of two famous murderers, the stepdaughter of a treasonable fraudster and possibly the sister of another fraudster. And I've hardly started looking!
BTW it may not have been spies. What about the family lawyer, Mr Catesby, who would certainly know of at least one of these hearings? Just a thought. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 7 July 2017, 16:09
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, After reading the article in your link, I did a Google on Sir Richard Lacon and got: http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/lacon-richard-1446 and discovered he was a Commissioner of Inquiry in Shropshire in <i>1422</i>, but there's no mention of what the Commission inquired into. Might the accusation have been a result of that inquiry? Doug Who is beginning to wonder what this bunch'll be up to next! Hilary wrote: Amazing what you find when you dig: Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richard Lacon Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richa... A guest post by Ted Powell highlights an unusual accusation of treason against a leading supporter of Henry V ... William Burdon was Alana's second husband and father of Thomas. I think you could say they were a naughty lot :) H
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BTW it may not have been spies. What about the family lawyer, Mr Catesby, who would certainly know of at least one of these hearings? Just a thought. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 7 July 2017, 16:09
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary, After reading the article in your link, I did a Google on Sir Richard Lacon and got: http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/lacon-richard-1446 and discovered he was a Commissioner of Inquiry in Shropshire in <i>1422</i>, but there's no mention of what the Commission inquired into. Might the accusation have been a result of that inquiry? Doug Who is beginning to wonder what this bunch'll be up to next! Hilary wrote: Amazing what you find when you dig: Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richard Lacon Treason in Shropshire in the Early Fifteenth Century: The Case of Sir Richa... A guest post by Ted Powell highlights an unusual accusation of treason against a leading supporter of Henry V ... William Burdon was Alana's second husband and father of Thomas. I think you could say they were a naughty lot :) H
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard
2017-07-08 17:14:43
Hilary
wrote:
What it says to me is if I'd been
Clarence in 1476, disturbed, heartbroken and wanting revenge for the death of
Isabel (which a lot of people do after traumatic deaths) and my spies came up
with this for the background of AT, who we know was there at the time, then I
can quite understand how he honed in on her. She's not only the granddaughter of
two famous murderers, the stepdaughter of a treasonable fraudster and possibly
the sister of another fraudster. And I've hardly started looking!
BTW it may not have been spies.
What about the family lawyer, Mr Catesby, who would certainly know of at least
one of these hearings? Just a thought. H
Doug here:
In regards to that last line; do you know of any
on-going squabbles between the Twynyhos and anyone in George's household? Is it
possible George got sic-ed onto Ankarette by someone with a grudge against
her/her family?
Of course, there's still the possibility that
Ankarette may have had a reputation for successfully nursing sick people and,
when Isabel died, George held her accountable. To be honest, that's what I'm
tending towards, right now; especially if George allowed his grief to get the
best, more accurately the worst, of him.
Doug
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard
2017-07-09 11:09:02
I'm still looking of course but I would guess that Ankarette joined the Clarence household at about the time that George was given the Warwick lands in 1472. That's when her husband died. Perhaps Clarence was helping her out? Her brother-in-law, John, the MP was reputedly his friend and Attorney General to Edward of Westminster. The Twynyhos in general do seem like normal Bristol merchants, like Thomas Cheddar, who had made money and started to become 'gentrified'. They were in prime Hungerford and Morton territory though and rebelled in 1483 and fought at Bosworth (though not our MP who died in September 1485) for HT. John MP's daughter married a Morton. However, Ankarette's son, John, who died in 1475 had married a Corbet from Shropshire. If you wiki them you'll see they were another group of troublemakers at the same time as Lacon.
Incidentally, the naughty Richard Lacon was the son of a younger son. The older son had only a daughter, whose daughter married one Ralph Banaster. It was Ralph Banaster (or his son) who handed in Buckingham for a large sum of money.
Small world, isn't it? I keep digging. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2017, 17:14
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary wrote: What it says to me is if I'd been Clarence in 1476, disturbed, heartbroken and wanting revenge for the death of Isabel (which a lot of people do after traumatic deaths) and my spies came up with this for the background of AT, who we know was there at the time, then I can quite understand how he honed in on her. She's not only the granddaughter of two famous murderers, the stepdaughter of a treasonable fraudster and possibly the sister of another fraudster. And I've hardly started looking! BTW it may not have been spies. What about the family lawyer, Mr Catesby, who would certainly know of at least one of these hearings? Just a thought. H Doug here: In regards to that last line; do you know of any on-going squabbles between the Twynyhos and anyone in George's household? Is it possible George got sic-ed onto Ankarette by someone with a grudge against her/her family? Of course, there's still the possibility that Ankarette may have had a reputation for successfully nursing sick people and, when Isabel died, George held her accountable. To be honest, that's what I'm tending towards, right now; especially if George allowed his grief to get the best, more accurately the worst, of him. Doug
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Incidentally, the naughty Richard Lacon was the son of a younger son. The older son had only a daughter, whose daughter married one Ralph Banaster. It was Ralph Banaster (or his son) who handed in Buckingham for a large sum of money.
Small world, isn't it? I keep digging. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2017, 17:14
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary wrote: What it says to me is if I'd been Clarence in 1476, disturbed, heartbroken and wanting revenge for the death of Isabel (which a lot of people do after traumatic deaths) and my spies came up with this for the background of AT, who we know was there at the time, then I can quite understand how he honed in on her. She's not only the granddaughter of two famous murderers, the stepdaughter of a treasonable fraudster and possibly the sister of another fraudster. And I've hardly started looking! BTW it may not have been spies. What about the family lawyer, Mr Catesby, who would certainly know of at least one of these hearings? Just a thought. H Doug here: In regards to that last line; do you know of any on-going squabbles between the Twynyhos and anyone in George's household? Is it possible George got sic-ed onto Ankarette by someone with a grudge against her/her family? Of course, there's still the possibility that Ankarette may have had a reputation for successfully nursing sick people and, when Isabel died, George held her accountable. To be honest, that's what I'm tending towards, right now; especially if George allowed his grief to get the best, more accurately the worst, of him. Doug
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Dis
2017-07-10 17:59:40
Hilary
wrote:
I'm still looking of
course but I would guess that Ankarette joined the Clarence household at about
the time that George was given the Warwick lands in 1472. That's when her
husband died. Perhaps Clarence was helping her out? Her brother-in-law, John,
the MP was reputedly his friend and Attorney General to Edward of
Westminster. The Twynyhos in general do seem like normal Bristol merchants, like
Thomas Cheddar, who had made money and started to become 'gentrified'. They were
in prime Hungerford and Morton territory though and rebelled in 1483 and fought
at Bosworth (though not our MP who died in September 1485) for HT. John MP's
daughter married a Morton. However, Ankarette's son, John, who died in 1475 had
married a Corbet from Shropshire. If you wiki them you'll see they were another
group of troublemakers at the same time as Lacon.
Doug here:
So George's actions could have been an
unrestrained version of This is how you repay my kindness? I'm presuming that,
even for normal Bristol merchants a position in a Royal household would be
considered a plum?
Hilary concluded:
Incidentally, the naughty
Richard Lacon was the son of a younger son. The older son had only a daughter,
whose daughter married one Ralph Banaster. It was Ralph Banaster (or his son)
who handed in Buckingham for a large sum of money.
Small world, isn't it? I
keep digging. H
Doug here:
Which would have meant that Lacon was
quite possibly on the make; what his position in the inheritance line-up.
Which seemingly also applied to Lacon's great-nephew
(once-removed?).
Doug
Who is starting to wonder if Eileen has copyrighted that What a nest of vipers
phrase of hers...
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Dis
2017-07-11 09:52:21
Yes, a place in the royal household would be considered plum, but as we've said in the 'Bosworth' post, the country was running a bit short of blue blood. These merchants were immensely rich because wool was the oil of the fifteenth century. If the Cheddars were good enough to marry into the Talbot family (and Thomas Cheddar's IPM outlines his considerable riches) then a woman from a nearly equally rich family would be good enough as a companion, though a bit old for Isabel I'd have thought? And her brother in law was Clarence's friend.
Re your last point, even by fifteenth century standards these were a dodgy lot. I think it does illustrate though how our perceptions of relationships between nobility/gentry and the Crown have become idealised by the use of words such as loyalty. Few people even knew what the king looked like, let alone had an opinion as to who should be on the throne, unless it affected their pockets of course. Things haven't really changed that much. We all grumble about governments but don't do anything about them. So this idea at outrage about the setting aside of the young Edward is great foreign gossip but little else. That is unless, like the Woodvilles, you were one of the few whose nose had been put out of joint. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, 10 July 2017, 17:59
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary wrote: I'm still looking of course but I would guess that Ankarette joined the Clarence household at about the time that George was given the Warwick lands in 1472. That's when her husband died. Perhaps Clarence was helping her out? Her brother-in-law, John, the MP was reputedly his friend and Attorney General to Edward of Westminster. The Twynyhos in general do seem like normal Bristol merchants, like Thomas Cheddar, who had made money and started to become 'gentrified'. They were in prime Hungerford and Morton territory though and rebelled in 1483 and fought at Bosworth (though not our MP who died in September 1485) for HT. John MP's daughter married a Morton. However, Ankarette's son, John, who died in 1475 had married a Corbet from Shropshire. If you wiki them you'll see they were another group of troublemakers at the same time as Lacon. Doug here: So George's actions could have been an unrestrained version of This is how you repay my kindness? I'm presuming that, even for normal Bristol merchants a position in a Royal household would be considered a plum? Hilary concluded: Incidentally, the naughty Richard Lacon was the son of a younger son. The older son had only a daughter, whose daughter married one Ralph Banaster. It was Ralph Banaster (or his son) who handed in Buckingham for a large sum of money. Small world, isn't it? I keep digging. H Doug here: Which would have meant that Lacon was quite possibly on the make; what his position in the inheritance line-up. Which seemingly also applied to Lacon's great-nephew (once-removed?). Doug Who is starting to wonder if Eileen has copyrighted that What a nest of vipers phrase of hers...
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Re your last point, even by fifteenth century standards these were a dodgy lot. I think it does illustrate though how our perceptions of relationships between nobility/gentry and the Crown have become idealised by the use of words such as loyalty. Few people even knew what the king looked like, let alone had an opinion as to who should be on the throne, unless it affected their pockets of course. Things haven't really changed that much. We all grumble about governments but don't do anything about them. So this idea at outrage about the setting aside of the young Edward is great foreign gossip but little else. That is unless, like the Woodvilles, you were one of the few whose nose had been put out of joint. H
From: "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, 10 July 2017, 17:59
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Ankarette Twynyho
Hilary wrote: I'm still looking of course but I would guess that Ankarette joined the Clarence household at about the time that George was given the Warwick lands in 1472. That's when her husband died. Perhaps Clarence was helping her out? Her brother-in-law, John, the MP was reputedly his friend and Attorney General to Edward of Westminster. The Twynyhos in general do seem like normal Bristol merchants, like Thomas Cheddar, who had made money and started to become 'gentrified'. They were in prime Hungerford and Morton territory though and rebelled in 1483 and fought at Bosworth (though not our MP who died in September 1485) for HT. John MP's daughter married a Morton. However, Ankarette's son, John, who died in 1475 had married a Corbet from Shropshire. If you wiki them you'll see they were another group of troublemakers at the same time as Lacon. Doug here: So George's actions could have been an unrestrained version of This is how you repay my kindness? I'm presuming that, even for normal Bristol merchants a position in a Royal household would be considered a plum? Hilary concluded: Incidentally, the naughty Richard Lacon was the son of a younger son. The older son had only a daughter, whose daughter married one Ralph Banaster. It was Ralph Banaster (or his son) who handed in Buckingham for a large sum of money. Small world, isn't it? I keep digging. H Doug here: Which would have meant that Lacon was quite possibly on the make; what his position in the inheritance line-up. Which seemingly also applied to Lacon's great-nephew (once-removed?). Doug Who is starting to wonder if Eileen has copyrighted that What a nest of vipers phrase of hers...
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