Subjects and Power
Subjects and Power
He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
Kathryn
Richard's Tomb again
Re: Richard's Tomb again
Have tried registering to the LM to leave a message for Olywen but I cannot succeed.Its a lovely design.Wanted to show her what it could like and ask her to check out the Richard 111 Society in WA link regarding Blanche Mortimer's tomb.Are you or anybody able to send the link to her please.
If only Richard was able have a similar tomb with Anne and Edward beside him.
Kathryn x
--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> This was in yesterday’s Leicester Mercury. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/medieval-tomb-fit-Richard-s-final-resting-place/story-20536212-detail/story.html
>
> Sandra
> =^..^=
>
Re: Richard's Tomb again
Sandra,
Have tried registering to the LM to leave a message for Olywen
but I cannot succeed.Its a lovely design.Wanted to show her what it could like
and ask her to check out the Richard 111 Society in WA link regarding Blanche
Mortimer's tomb.Are you or anybody able to send the link to her please.
If
only Richard was able have a similar tomb with Anne and Edward beside
him.
Kathryn x
--- In ,
"SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> This was in
yesterday’s Leicester Mercury.
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/medieval-tomb-fit-Richard-s-final-resting-place/story-20536212-detail/story.html
>
> Sandra
> =^..^=
>
Re: Richard's Tomb again
--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Kathryn. I think this must be her: http://www.olwenhughes.com/ I couldn’t get anywhere with it. A Google search for “Olwen Hughes†and “Leicester†brings up a whole load of items, but I don’t know if any of them actually work. You’d have to try them in turn and hope for the best. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22olwen+hughes%22+leicester
>
> Sandra
> =^..^=
>
>
> From: kathryng56@...
> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 5:17 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard's Tomb again
>
>
> Sandra,
> Have tried registering to the LM to leave a message for Olywen but I cannot succeed.Its a lovely design.Wanted to show her what it could like and ask her to check out the Richard 111 Society in WA link regarding Blanche Mortimer's tomb.Are you or anybody able to send the link to her please.
> If only Richard was able have a similar tomb with Anne and Edward beside him.
> Kathryn x
>
>
>
> --- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@> wrote:
> >
> > This was in yesterday’s Leicester Mercury. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/medieval-tomb-fit-Richard-s-final-resting-place/story-20536212-detail/story.html
> >
> > Sandra
> > =^..^=
> >
>
Re: Subjects and Power
Marc
On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..." <kathryng56@...> wrote:
Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
Kathryn
Re: Subjects and Power
I agree that it was acceptable in some quarters for Kings to have mistresses.But Edward's's father,his brother,Clarence, and Richard himself do not seem to have had mistresses once married.Richard's mother was regarded as being very religious and she and her husband may have well influenced their children that this was the way to behave and most seem to have done so apart from Edward.
He became head of his family household and the Yorkists at a very early age.He appears to been somewhat of a lad!And then have fallen totally in love with Elizabeth Woodville and married her regardless of anyone elses views.Through the marriage he gained a large extended family with some Lancastrian connections. This coupled with his Yorkist supporters would, he hoped give him a wide power base with which to rule and get away from Warick's controlling grip.
By marrying up all the Woodvilles with the nobility of the country he was trying to eventually tie them or the majority to himself.Similar to what the Lancastrians had already done under H1V,HV and H1V.Edward failed because the nobility resented being connected with the upstart Woodville family and there was already a formidable Lancastrian base.Once Edward had died at a relatively young age perhaps they wanted someone who would give them back their lost lands etc? Although everyone seemed happy enough to have Richard as King at the time.
While Edward 1V was alive he had it all. to a certain extent,the beautiful wife,lovely children, a happy family and subjects who on the whole seemed to love him. Even if this was not the case with some of the nobility.So why get involved with and stay involved with a circle of associates who were promiscious?It was definitely partly due to Elizabeth being absent for quite a lot of the time,coupled with his libedo.But were his pals pandering to his "vices"and thus making sure they got gifts etc and /or partially distracting him from what was really going on behind his back and in the land.At least some of the time?
His lifestyle would not impress MB and her followers and Richard would also probably disapprove of this side of his brother but could do nothing about it.
Kathryn x
--- In , Marc Moris <macbrat88@...> wrote:
>
> Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).
> In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a scandal as it looked as nowadays.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..." <kathryng56@...> wrote:
>
> Â
> Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
> He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
> Kathryn
>
Re : Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to that with Elizabeth Woodville.
Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to Elizabeth.
Kind regards
David
From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@...>;
To: <>;
Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a scandal as it looked as nowadays.
Marc
On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..." <kathryng56@...> wrote:
Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
Kathryn
Re: Re : Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Marc,
I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no
evidence of the brothers York having had mistresses after they were
married.
This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense
refers to that with Elizabeth Woodville.
Strangly, there seems to
be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper Tudor or Henry during their
exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to Elizabeth.
Kind
regards
David
From: Marc Moris
<macbrat88@...>;
To:
<>;
Subject: Re:
Subjects and Power
Sent: Sun,
Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals -
some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as
nobility ;-) ).
In
fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a
scandal as it looked as nowadays.
Marc
On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03,
"kathryng56@..." <kathryng56@...> wrote:
Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel
room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being
filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open
the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have
never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of
all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be
in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward
1V must have found it irresistably potent.
He and Elizabeth
obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to
withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he
took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having
two wives!
Kathryn
Re : Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> But David, what if the rumours about Roland de Velville (and various other spellings) were true? If the boy was Henry’s illegitimate son, he was not conjured from thin Breton air. Henry had to have been busy doing something to someone, somewhere. Maybe a one-night stand, or maybe a mistress. And how do we know ‘certainly’ that he was faithful to Elizabeth? Maybe he was simply very, very discreet. He appears to have been a very circumspect fellow, almost to keeping secrets from himself. So nothing can be stated as absolute fact, there is always room for doubt.
>
> I am ‘certain’ of Richard’s innocence of the crimes attributed to him, but he cannot be proven innocent. Until he is, the doubt will remain. Of course, being a hopeless Ricardian, I am not likely to believe him guilty even then. But that’s a different matter. I am as staunch for Richard as you are for Henry.
> Sandra
> =^..^=
> From: Durose David
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
>
>
> Marc,
> I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
>
> This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to that with Elizabeth Woodville.
>
> Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to Elizabeth.
>
> Kind regards
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@...>;
> To: <>;
> Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
> Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
>
>
>
> Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).
> In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a scandal as it looked as nowadays.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..." <kathryng56@...> wrote:
>
>
> Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
> He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
> Kathryn
>
Re : Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> I am as staunch for Richard as you are for Henry.
> Sandra
> =^..^=
> From: Durose David
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
>
>
> Marc,
> I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
>
> This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to that with Elizabeth Woodville.
>
> Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to Elizabeth.
>
> Kind regards
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@...>;
> To: <>;
> Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
> Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
>
>
>
> Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).
> In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a scandal as it looked as nowadays.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..." <kathryng56@...> wrote:
>
>
> Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
> He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
> Kathryn
>
Re: Subjects and Power
Henry Pole the Younger son of Henry, Baron Montagu; grandson of Margaret, Countess of Salisbury; great-grandson of George, Duke of Clarence. Brother of Katherine and Winifred Pole, who married the Hastings brothers: Francis and Sir Thomas. Portrayed on The Tudors .
Arrested with his grandmother and father in 1538 and last seen in 1542. Year of birth unknown but presumed to be under-age in 1539 and 1541 when his father and grandmother were beheaded.
From:
[mailto: ]
On Behalf Of EILEEN BATES
Sent: 03 February 2014 13:38
To:
Subject: Re : Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Hallo Steven...some time ago I asked for the name of
that young lad...about 10 years old..who also disappeared in the Tower during
Henry's reign...which you gave me. I am annoyed with myself I forgot to take a
note of it and cannot remember which book I read it in. Kindly remind me,,,many
thanks. I'm annoyed with myself because it seems this young boy has been
forgotten by so many people and yet nearly everybody has heard about the other
two....Eileen
--- In ,
"SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> But David, what if the rumours about Roland de Velville (and various other
spellings) were true? If the boy was Henryâ¬"s illegitimate son, he was not
conjured from thin Breton air. Henry had to have been busy doing something to
someone, somewhere. Maybe a one-night stand, or maybe a mistress. And how do we
know â¬Ücertainlyâ¬" that he was faithful to
Elizabeth ? Maybe he was simply very, very
discreet. He appears to have been a very circumspect fellow, almost to keeping
secrets from himself. So nothing can be stated as absolute fact, there is
always room for doubt.
>
> I am â¬Ücertainâ¬" of Richardâ¬"s innocence of the crimes attributed to
him, but he cannot be proven innocent. Until he is, the doubt will remain. Of
course, being a hopeless Ricardian, I am not likely to believe him guilty even
then. But thatâ¬"s a different matter. I am as staunch for Richard as you are
for Henry.
> Sandra
> =^..^=
> From: Durose David
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
>
>
> Marc,
> I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the
brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
>
> This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to that
with Elizabeth Woodville.
>
> Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper
Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to
Elizabeth .
>
> Kind regards
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@...>;
> To:
< >;
> Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
> Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
>
>
>
> Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would
even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).
> In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a
scandal as it looked as nowadays.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..."
<kathryng56@...> wrote:
>
>
> Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel
room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being
filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the
window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never
seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of
all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in
control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must
have found it irresistably potent.
> He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant
and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably
why he took to mistresses.With Jane
Shore , almost
ironically,it was like having two wives!
> Kathryn
>
Re: Subjects and Power
--- In , "Stephen" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Henry Pole the Younger â€" son of Henry, Baron Montagu; grandson of Margaret, Countess of Salisbury; great-grandson of George, Duke of Clarence. Brother of Katherine and Winifred Pole, who married the Hastings brothers: Francis and Sir Thomas. Portrayed on “The Tudorsâ€.
>
> Arrested with his grandmother and father in 1538 and last seen in 1542. Year of birth unknown but presumed to be under-age in 1539 and 1541 when his father and grandmother were beheaded.
>
> _____
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EILEEN BATES
> Sent: 03 February 2014 13:38
> To:
> Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
>
>
>
>
>
> Hallo Steven...some time ago I asked for the name of that young lad...about 10 years old..who also disappeared in the Tower during Henry's reign...which you gave me. I am annoyed with myself I forgot to take a note of it and cannot remember which book I read it in. Kindly remind me,,,many thanks. I'm annoyed with myself because it seems this young boy has been forgotten by so many people and yet nearly everybody has heard about the other two....Eileen
>
> --- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@> wrote:
> >
> > But David, what if the rumours about Roland de Velville (and various other spellings) were true? If the boy was Henry’s illegitimate son, he was not conjured from thin Breton air. Henry had to have been busy doing something to someone, somewhere. Maybe a one-night stand, or maybe a mistress. And how do we know ‘certainly’ that he was faithful to Elizabeth? Maybe he was simply very, very discreet. He appears to have been a very circumspect fellow, almost to keeping secrets from himself. So nothing can be stated as absolute fact, there is always room for doubt.
> >
> > I am ‘certain’ of Richard’s innocence of the crimes attributed to him, but he cannot be proven innocent. Until he is, the doubt will remain. Of course, being a hopeless Ricardian, I am not likely to believe him guilty even then. But that’s a different matter. I am as staunch for Richard as you are for Henry.
> > Sandra
> > =^..^=
> > From: Durose David
> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:38 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
> >
> >
> > Marc,
> > I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
> >
> > This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to that with Elizabeth Woodville.
> >
> > Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to Elizabeth.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@>;
> > To: <>;
> > Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
> > Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).
> > In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a scandal as it looked as nowadays.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@" <kathryng56@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
> > He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably why he took to mistresses.With Jane Shore, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
> > Kathryn
> >
>
Re : RE: Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
You are confusing Henry VII who died in 1509 with his son.
Kind regards
David
From: Stephen <stephenmlark@...>;
To: <>;
Subject: RE: Re: Subjects and Power
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 1:51:02 PM
Henry Pole the Younger son of Henry, Baron Montagu; grandson of Margaret, Countess of Salisbury; great-grandson of George, Duke of Clarence. Brother of Katherine and Winifred Pole, who married the Hastings brothers: Francis and Sir Thomas. Portrayed on The Tudors .
Arrested with his grandmother and father in 1538 and last seen in 1542. Year of birth unknown but presumed to be under-age in 1539 and 1541 when his father and grandmother were beheaded.
From:
[mailto: ]
On Behalf Of EILEEN BATES
Sent: 03 February 2014 13:38
To:
Subject: Re : Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Hallo Steven...some time ago I asked for the name of
that young lad...about 10 years old..who also disappeared in the Tower during
Henry's reign...which you gave me. I am annoyed with myself I forgot to take a
note of it and cannot remember which book I read it in. Kindly remind me,,,many
thanks. I'm annoyed with myself because it seems this young boy has been
forgotten by so many people and yet nearly everybody has heard about the other
two....Eileen
--- In ,
"SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> But David, what if the rumours about Roland de Velville (and various other
spellings) were true? If the boy was Henryâ¬"s illegitimate son, he was not
conjured from thin Breton air. Henry had to have been busy doing something to
someone, somewhere. Maybe a one-night stand, or maybe a mistress. And how do we
know â¬Ücertainlyâ¬" that he was faithful to Elizabeth ? Maybe he was simply very, very
discreet. He appears to have been a very circumspect fellow, almost to keeping
secrets from himself. So nothing can be stated as absolute fact, there is
always room for doubt.
>
> I am â¬Ücertainâ¬" of Richardâ¬"s innocence of the crimes attributed to
him, but he cannot be proven innocent. Until he is, the doubt will remain. Of
course, being a hopeless Ricardian, I am not likely to believe him guilty even
then. But thatâ¬"s a different matter. I am as staunch for Richard as you are
for Henry.
> Sandra
> =^..^=
> From: Durose David
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
>
>
> Marc,
> I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the
brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
>
> This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to that
with Elizabeth Woodville.
>
> Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper
Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to Elizabeth .
>
> Kind regards
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@...>;
> To:
< >;
> Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
> Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
>
>
>
> Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would
even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ).
> In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a
scandal as it looked as nowadays.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..."
<kathryng56@...> wrote:
>
>
> Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel
room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being
filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open the
window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have never
seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the "object" of
all this adoration would feel and react.It must been very powerful to be in
control and all this is directed towards you and you control it.Edward 1V must
have found it irresistably potent.
> He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly pregnant
and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo are probably
why he took to mistresses.With Jane
Shore , almost
ironically,it was like having two wives!
> Kathryn
>
Re: Subjects and Power
No, I am simply answering Eileen's question in detail. You have read it?
From:
[mailto: ]
On Behalf Of Durose David
Sent: 03 February 2014 14:21
To:
Subject: Re : RE: Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Stephen,
You are confusing Henry VII who died in 1509 with his son.
Kind regards
David
From: Stephen <stephenmlark@...>;
To: < >;
Subject: RE: Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 1:51:02 PM
Henry Pole the Younger son of Henry, Baron Montagu; grandson of Margaret, Countess of Salisbury; great-grandson of George, Duke of Clarence. Brother of Katherine and Winifred Pole, who married the Hastings brothers: Francis and Sir Thomas. Portrayed on The Tudors .
Arrested with his grandmother and father in 1538 and last seen in 1542. Year of birth unknown but presumed to be under-age in 1539 and 1541 when his father and grandmother were beheaded.
From:
[mailto:
] On Behalf Of EILEEN BATES
Sent: 03 February 2014 13:38
To:
Subject: Re : Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Hallo
Steven...some time ago I asked for the name of that young lad...about 10
years old..who also disappeared in the Tower during Henry's reign...which you
gave me. I am annoyed with myself I forgot to take a note of it and cannot
remember which book I read it in. Kindly remind me,,,many thanks. I'm annoyed
with myself because it seems this young boy has been forgotten by so many
people and yet nearly everybody has heard about the other two....Eileen
--- In
, "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> But David, what if the rumours about Roland de Velville (and various
other spellings) were true? If the boy was Henryâ¬"s illegitimate son, he was
not conjured from thin Breton air. Henry had to have been busy doing something
to someone, somewhere. Maybe a one-night stand, or maybe a mistress. And how
do we know â¬Ücertainlyâ¬" that he was faithful to
Elizabeth ? Maybe he was simply very, very
discreet. He appears to have been a very circumspect fellow, almost to keeping
secrets from himself. So nothing can be stated as absolute fact, there is
always room for doubt.
>
> I am â¬Ücertainâ¬" of Richardâ¬"s innocence of the crimes attributed to
him, but he cannot be proven innocent. Until he is, the doubt will remain. Of
course, being a hopeless Ricardian, I am not likely to believe him guilty
even then. But thatâ¬"s a different matter. I am as staunch for Richard as
you are for Henry.
> Sandra
> =^..^=
> From: Durose David
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re : Re: Subjects and Power
>
>
> Marc,
> I would like to echo the earlier reply, I can see no evidence of the
brothers York having had mistresses after they were married.
>
> This of course assumes Edward IV 's marriage in this sense refers to
that with Elizabeth Woodville.
>
> Strangly, there seems to be no evidence of mistresses taken by Jasper
Tudor or Henry during their exile either. And Henry was certainly faithful to
Elizabeth .
>
> Kind regards
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> From: Marc Moris <macbrat88@...>;
> To:
<
>;
> Subject: Re: Subjects and Power
> Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:56:06 PM
>
>
>
> Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some
would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-)
).
> In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a
scandal as it looked as nowadays.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 31 January 2014, 23:03, "kathryng56@..."
<kathryng56@...> wrote:
>
>
> Watching a programme on Blondie and the group were in their hotel
room.They were opening and closing a window and the crowd below were being
filmed from behind the group.They described their feelings afterwards.Open
the window wahhhhhh! ,close the window,open the window wahhhhh! etc.I have
never seen this filmed that way before or thought of how the
"object" of all this adoration would feel and react.It must been
very powerful to be in control and all this is directed towards you and you
control it.Edward 1V must have found it irresistably potent.
> He and Elizabeth obviously loved each other.But she was regularly
pregnant and had to withdraw from Edward and the court.This and his libedo
are probably why he took to mistresses.With
Jane Shore
, almost ironically,it was like having two wives!
> Kathryn
>
Re : RE: Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
--- In , Durose David <daviddurose2000@...> wrote:
>
> Stephen,
> You are confusing Henry VII who died in 1509 with his son.
>
> Kind regards
> David
>
Re: Re : Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Subjects and Power
Now Eileen would I belong to the Henry Tudor Appreciation Society? I most certainly would not, but I know exactly what you mean.
Re: Richard's Tomb again
"Have tried registering to the LM to leave a message for Olywen but I cannot succeed.Its a lovely design.Wanted to show her what it could like and ask her to check out the Richard 111 Society in WA link regarding Blanche Mortimer's tomb.Are you or anybody able to send the link to her please. If only Richard was able have a similar tomb with Anne and Edward beside him."
Carol responds:
If you get through to her, you might mention that it's the White Rose of York, not of Lancaster (assuming that we're speaking of the same article).
Carol
--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> This was in yesterday’s Leicester Mercury. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/medieval-tomb-fit-Richard-s-final-resting-place/story-20536212-detail/story.html
>
> Sandra
> =^..^=
>
Re: Richard's Tomb again
Kathryn wrote:
"Have tried registering to the LM to leave a
message for Olywen but I cannot succeed.Its a lovely design.Wanted to show her
what it could like and ask her to check out the Richard 111 Society in WA link
regarding Blanche Mortimer's tomb.Are you or anybody able to send the link to
her please. If only Richard was able have a similar tomb with Anne and Edward
beside him."
Carol responds:
If you get through to her, you might
mention that it's the White Rose of York, not of Lancaster (assuming that we're
speaking of the same article).
Carol
--- In , "SandraMachin"
<sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> This was in yesterday’s
Leicester Mercury. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/medieval-tomb-fit-Richard-s-final-resting-place/story-20536212-detail/story.html
>
> Sandra
> =^..^=
>
Re: Subjects and Power
"Having mistresses was very common amongst nobility and Royals - some would even argue it still is (though I don't count Hollande as nobility ;-) ). In fact, it was expected from a king to have some mistresses - and not a scandal as it looked as nowadays."
Carol responds:
I'm not so sure. Most medieval English kings weren't known for their promiscuity. Richard III was known for the purity of his private life (two illegitimate children born before marriage didn't count, fornication being a venial sin and adultery a mortal one). Richard II was apparently faithful to his wife before her death and deliberately married a seven-year-old afterward to avoid a sexual connection with another woman. And, of course, Henry VI wouldn't even allow women to reveal their cleavage in his court (and was so chaste and modest that the paternity of his son Edward of Lancaster was in doubt). Henry VII, as far as we know, was faithful to Elizabeth of York. I think Edward IV was the exception rather than the rule, with marriage as well as mistresses--as was his grandson, Henry VII.
Carol
