Bosworth reenactment

It now appears that I'll be going to England in August. Should I or shouldn't I see the Bosworth reenactment? I suspect that the event will be crowded and expensive, maybe impossible to book. I'm also having second thoughts about watching "Richard" die. I think it might be traumatic. Thoughts, anyone?

Oh, and I see that Yahoo has changed its default spacing, so I'm stuck with double-spaced posts.

Carol

Jan here.When I went to the battlefield with the R3soc last summer I watched the jousting because I had never seen any before but avoided the re-enactment of the battle because I knew it could not be realistic. There was plenty of room for spectators from what I could see. Once you pay your entrance fee you can wander about. I went for a walk instead of watching. As Chris Skidmore said somewhere you need such large numbers & so much space for a re-enactment that could teach you something. No disrespect to the re-enactors because I think they do their research & know their stuff. Do go to the battlefield if you can, though. It is so evocative seeing the standards in the wind.

Sent from my iPad
On 12 Feb 2014, at 17:35, <justcarol67@...> wrote:

It now appears that I'll be going to England in August. Should I or shouldn't I see the Bosworth reenactment? I suspect that the event will be crowded and expensive, maybe impossible to book. I'm also having second thoughts about watching "Richard" die. I think it might be traumatic. Thoughts, anyone?

Oh, and I see that Yahoo has changed its default spacing, so I'm stuck with double-spaced posts.

Carol

Bosworth is well worth going to. The battle itself is something of a pageant (and generally narrated by a guy called Rupert from the Beaufort Company in the persona of Thomas Stanley, which you may find galling), but the re-enactors and the camp are superb. There'll be talks, albeit aimed at the non-specialist, and last year they had Annette, Glenn Foard and Turi King, among others. You'll see Destrier, the best and most authentic jousting company around, and you may well get to meet people like Graham Turner, the artist. It's not vastly expensive, and there are discounts if you pre-book.

Jonathan

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From: justcarol67@... <justcarol67@...>;
To: <>;
Subject: Bosworth reenactment
Sent: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 5:35:04 PM

 

It now appears that I'll be going to England in August. Should I or shouldn't I see the Bosworth reenactment? I suspect that the event will be crowded and expensive, maybe impossible to book. I'm also having second thoughts about watching "Richard" die. I think it might be traumatic. Thoughts, anyone?

Oh, and I see that Yahoo has changed its default spacing, so I'm stuck with double-spaced posts.

Carol

Jonathan wrote:

Bosworth is well worth going to. The battle itself is something of a pageant (and generally narrated by a guy called Rupert from the Beaufort Company in the persona of Thomas Stanley, which you may find galling), but the re-enactors and the camp are superb. There'll be talks, albeit aimed at the non-specialist, and last year they had Annette, Glenn Foard and Turi King, among others. You'll see Destrier, the best and most authentic jousting company around, and you may well get to meet people like Graham Turner, the artist. It's not vastly expensive, and there are discounts if you pre-book.

Carol responds:
Thanks, Jonathan. I do intend to go to Bosworth. It's only the battle reenactment that I was concerned about. (I don't want to see "Richard" "killed.") I was under the impression that the reenactment was held only on August 22. Is it year-round? I was also concerned about accommodations in and around Leicester if we go at that time, especially if the reburial is held on or around August 25. We'll be going to England en August, but I thought it might be best to avoid going to Leicester/Bosworth that particular week.
Carol

I think you'll be all right for accom round Leicester Carol - most people do Bosworth as a day trip. I'll share with you my visit there last July which I've only just had time to reflect on due to pressure of work. Now Leicester is, certainly in US terms, only just up the road from me. I was at a wedding at the Priory of the Holy Cross there, where Father Fabian and his Dominicans had offered burial for Richard in attonement for the Abbey's neglect of him at the time of his death. A lovely tranquil place. It was a blisteringly hot day and the bride arrived in a carriage. The service took one and a half hours (Father Fabian gave VFM) and the horses were getting fretful. We processed to the banks of the Soar where the couple wanted to feed the swans. That's literally yards from the bridge which Richard crossed on his way to and from Leicester. Within fifteen minutes the sky darkened and we made a dash for our cars. Just as the couple got in the carriage there was the most enormous clap of thunder and the horses reared up. The carriage had to be escorted by a police car back past the Cathedral and into the old centre of Leicester; a route afterwards I realised that, barring one way systems and traffic lights, the dead Richard had probably followed. We were trying to park the car in the storm when a traffic warden suggested we might just find a spot round the block. I got out and left hubby to it. He rushed back on foot saying he had only been able to find one space. Four hours' later we walked back to the car and there it was in solitary splendour right in front of the very gates of the Greyfriars through which the van carrying Richard's remains had passed and which we saw in the John/Philippa programme. Hubby didn't believe me but we looked at it on tape and it was that gate. So folks laugh at Philippa with her R and Dening with his seances but that was ......... weird H

On Thursday, 13 February 2014, 17:01, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:
Jonathan wrote:

Bosworth is well worth going to. The battle itself is something of a pageant (and generally narrated by a guy called Rupert from the Beaufort Company in the persona of Thomas Stanley, which you may find galling), but the re-enactors and the camp are superb. There'll be talks, albeit aimed at the non-specialist, and last year they had Annette, Glenn Foard and Turi King, among others. You'll see Destrier, the best and most authentic jousting company around, and you may well get to meet people like Graham Turner, the artist. It's not vastly expensive, and there are discounts if you pre-book.
Carol responds:
Thanks, Jonathan. I do intend to go to Bosworth. It's only the battle reenactment that I was concerned about. (I don't want to see "Richard" "killed.") I was under the impression that the reenactment was held only on August 22. Is it year-round? I was also concerned about accommodations in and around Leicester if we go at that time, especially if the reburial is held on or around August 25. We'll be going to England en August, but I thought it might be best to avoid going to Leicester/Bosworth that particular week.
Carol

That is amazing Hilary ! Kathryn x

Oh, that's a lovely experience, Hilary. And I don't think it was weird. I think maybe it was just someone trying to get your attention and say hello.

I have a friend who is also a Ricardian. We were discussing Richard while we were out and about shopping after finding Wensleydale cheese at Costco.
Upon exiting the store, I carefully maneuvered through the parking lot on our way to the main road. My friend said, "Stop the car." I did, and to our right was a license plate on a parked truck that read, "EvilKing."

I've come to watch for such sychronicities. There comes a point, after a certain number, you stop calling them coincidences. When you reach out, sometimes the universe reaches back. And that's just...neat.

~Weds


---In , <hjnatdat@...> wrote:

I think you'll be all right for accom round Leicester Carol - most people do Bosworth as a day trip. I'll share with you my visit there last July which I've only just had time to reflect on due to pressure of work. Now Leicester is, certainly in US terms, only just up the road from me. I was at a wedding at the Priory of the Holy Cross there, where Father Fabian and his Dominicans had offered burial for Richard in attonement for the Abbey's neglect of him at the time of his death. A lovely tranquil place. It was a blisteringly hot day and the bride arrived in a carriage. The service took one and a half hours (Father Fabian gave VFM) and the horses were getting fretful. We processed to the banks of the Soar where the couple wanted to feed the swans. That's literally yards from the bridge which Richard crossed on his way to and from Leicester. Within fifteen minutes the sky darkened and we made a dash for our cars. Just as the couple got in the carriage there was the most enormous clap of thunder and the horses reared up. The carriage had to be escorted by a police car back past the Cathedral and into the old centre of Leicester; a route afterwards I realised that, barring one way systems and traffic lights, the dead Richard had probably followed. We were trying to park the car in the storm when a traffic warden suggested we might just find a spot round the block. I got out and left hubby to it. He rushed back on foot saying he had only been able to find one space. Four hours' later we walked back to the car and there it was in solitary splendour right in front of the very gates of the Greyfriars through which the van carrying Richard's remains had passed and which we saw in the John/Philippa programme. Hubby didn't believe me but we looked at it on tape and it was that gate. So folks laugh at Philippa with her R and Dening with his seances but that was ......... weird H

On Thursday, 13 February 2014, 17:01, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:
Jonathan wrote:

Bosworth is well worth going to. The battle itself is something of a pageant (and generally narrated by a guy called Rupert from the Beaufort Company in the persona of Thomas Stanley, which you may find galling), but the re-enactors and the camp are superb. There'll be talks, albeit aimed at the non-specialist, and last year they had Annette, Glenn Foard and Turi King, among others. You'll see Destrier, the best and most authentic jousting company around, and you may well get to meet people like Graham Turner, the artist. It's not vastly expensive, and there are discounts if you pre-book.
Carol responds:
Thanks, Jonathan. I do intend to go to Bosworth. It's only the battle reenactment that I was concerned about. (I don't want to see "Richard" "killed.") I was under the impression that the reenactment was held only on August 22. Is it year-round? I was also concerned about accommodations in and around Leicester if we go at that time, especially if the reburial is held on or around August 25. We'll be going to England en August, but I thought it might be best to avoid going to Leicester/Bosworth that particular week.
Carol

Hilary wrote:
"I think you'll be all right for accom round Leicester Carol - most people do Bosworth as a day trip."
Carol responds:
Thanks, Hilary. I'm mainly concerned about being there on or around August 22 when I imagine that Bosworth (and Leicester?) will be more crowded than usual. But if the battle is reenacted more than once a year, maybe that won't be a problem and I'm just imagining difficulties.
On another note, is the statue of Richard still at Bosworth or has it been moved to Leicester? I want to leave a white rose there if I can.
Carol

I don't think there is a statue of Richard at Bosworth....Leicester does indeed have a wonderful statue of him which l believe was paid for by the Society...
Speaking of statues there is a really weird and ghastly one of him at Middleham...Eileen

Lovely reply Wednesday.You and Hilary must both be in his good book .
Kathryn x

Jan here.I think you'll find that the re-enactment takes place on the nearest week-end to 22nd. More people can come at a week-end & some re-enactors have jobs during the week, surely!Check out the Bosworth Battlefield site for details. I think the R3Soc are holding a commemoration on Sunday 17th August, though I am not sure where I got this from. Could be the R3Soc web pages.

Sent from my iPad
On 13 Feb 2014, at 22:22, <justcarol67@...> wrote:

Hilary wrote:
"I think you'll be all right for accom round Leicester Carol - most people do Bosworth as a day trip."
Carol responds:
Thanks, Hilary. I'm mainly concerned about being there on or around August 22 when I imagine that Bosworth (and Leicester?) will be more crowded than usual. But if the battle is reenacted more than once a year, maybe that won't be a problem and I'm just imagining difficulties.
On another note, is the statue of Richard still at Bosworth or has it been moved to Leicester? I want to leave a white rose there if I can.
Carol

Hi Eileen,
The statue of Richard III in Leicester is lovely.To me he is holding aloft in his crown all that he holds dear.His country and its peoples and all that that entails.Honour,respect,loyalty,kindness,fairness,friendship and love.

I know the statue of him at Middleham is controversial.It is supposed to represent the good qualities of Richard whilst acknowledging the darker reputation that has been attributed to him.I didn't like the statue at first. But looking at it carefully(from photographs) and since the wonderful discovery of Richard's remains I like to think that Richard is emerging from the evil attributed to him and stepping into the light.He is small, (although average for his age) slender,his face is lean,fairly youthful and has an air of saddness.His arms appear to be tied behind his back although they are not there and hence he appears to be hung slightly.(I'm sure others could make comments about this aspect).The basalist which rises from behind him and drapes over his right shoulder and forms into his collar could represent many things.The collar being his chain of office.A basalist is supposed to be the King of Serpents or could it be the King of Wisdom?The small child's arm wrapped around from Richard's left shoulder to me represents his son Edward. Who would have probably done this with his father many times during his life and on many happy ocassions.
Anyhow that's why I like the statue.
Kathryn x


---In , <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:

I don't think there is a statue of Richard at Bosworth....Leicester does indeed have a wonderful statue of him which l believe was paid for by the Society...
Speaking of statues there is a really weird and ghastly one of him at Middleham...Eileen

Jan wrote:."I think you'll find that the re-enactment takes place on the nearest week-end to 22nd. More people can come at a week-end & some re-enactors have jobs during the week, surely!Check out the Bosworth Battlefield site for details. I think the R3Soc are holding a commemoration on Sunday 17th August, though I am not sure where I got this from. Could be the R3Soc web pages."

Carol responds:
Thanks, Jan. I'll do that.
Carol

I know Weds and in this life I'm a statistician, an auditor, and hubby is a Physics/Engineering guy - a million miles from Madam Arcati. Yes life is indeed strange. H

On Friday, 14 February 2014, 0:31, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:

Jan wrote:."I think you'll find that the re-enactment takes place on the nearest week-end to 22nd. More people can come at a week-end & some re-enactors have jobs during the week, surely!Check out the Bosworth Battlefield site for details. I think the R3Soc are holding a commemoration on Sunday 17th August, though I am not sure where I got this from. Could be the R3Soc web pages."

Carol responds:
Thanks, Jan. I'll do that.
Carol

I agree - the statue in Leicester is very beautiful, in fact my favourite of all representations of him. And Middleham is well - strange. H

On Thursday, 13 February 2014, 22:32, "cherryripe.eileenb@..." <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
I don't think there is a statue of Richard at Bosworth....Leicester does indeed have a wonderful statue of him which l believe was paid for by the Society...
Speaking of statues there is a really weird and ghastly one of him at Middleham...Eileen

Don't worry Carol, England is much smaller than the US (says she who twice drove from Dallas to LA) so if you have to move 10 miles up the road so what? I'd be far more worried if they had a Robbie Williams pop concert booked on the same day, which they once did in Sydney when I had to find accom there. To be serious though, the real culture trail in the UK is Stratford upon Avon, Warwick and the Cotswolds. Which is exactly why Leicester is so keen to get part of it. H

On Thursday, 13 February 2014, 22:22, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:

Hilary wrote:
"I think you'll be all right for accom round Leicester Carol - most people do Bosworth as a day trip."
Carol responds:
Thanks, Hilary. I'm mainly concerned about being there on or around August 22 when I imagine that Bosworth (and Leicester?) will be more crowded than usual. But if the battle is reenacted more than once a year, maybe that won't be a problem and I'm just imagining difficulties.
On another note, is the statue of Richard still at Bosworth or has it been moved to Leicester? I want to leave a white rose there if I can.
Carol

Hilary wrote:

Don't worry Carol, England is much smaller than the US (says she who twice drove from Dallas to LA) so if you have to move 10 miles up the road so what? I'd be far more worried if they had a Robbie Williams pop concert booked on the same day, which they once did in Sydney when I had to find accom there. To be serious though, the real culture trail in the UK is Stratford upon Avon, Warwick and the Cotswolds. Which is exactly why Leicester is so keen to get part of it. H
Carol responds:
Yes, the whole United Kingdom is smaller than the state I live in (Arizona). But, unfortunately, we have only eight days, so Shakespeare (and the Romantic poets I specialized in for my PhD) will have to wait. We can only do Richard on this trip. The beautiful statue at Leicester (I mistakenly thought it was at Bosworth) is an absolute must-see. I've seen photos of the armless monstrosity at Middleham and will have to grit my teeth when I see it. If anyone else is looking at it with me, I'll be sure to say, "That's not Richard."

Carol

If you're in London you could do Keats's house in Hampstead, depends how brave you are on the Tube. Yes 8 days is pushing it a bit. I hope you can enjoy, rather than rush round. The Yorkshire Dales are beautiful, try to take a breath and see what Richard saw in them. H

On Saturday, 15 February 2014, 16:56, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:

Hilary wrote:

Don't worry Carol, England is much smaller than the US (says she who twice drove from Dallas to LA) so if you have to move 10 miles up the road so what? I'd be far more worried if they had a Robbie Williams pop concert booked on the same day, which they once did in Sydney when I had to find accom there. To be serious though, the real culture trail in the UK is Stratford upon Avon, Warwick and the Cotswolds. Which is exactly why Leicester is so keen to get part of it. H
Carol responds:
Yes, the whole United Kingdom is smaller than the state I live in (Arizona). But, unfortunately, we have only eight days, so Shakespeare (and the Romantic poets I specialized in for my PhD) will have to wait. We can only do Richard on this trip. The beautiful statue at Leicester (I mistakenly thought it was at Bosworth) is an absolute must-see. I've seen photos of the armless monstrosity at Middleham and will have to grit my teeth when I see it. If anyone else is looking at it with me, I'll be sure to say, "That's not Richard."

Carol

Hi, Carol,
Forgive me if this has been suggested before (since I haven't been closely following your thread...mostly due to the way Yahoo gets everything so out of order), but on a time-restricted trip, we used to take night trains when available. The sleeping accommodations are small but comfy. There may also still be a very speedy train, London/York and back again.
Oh, and in London, watch the nightly ceremony of the Keys at the Tower. This requires applying for a ticket in advance (back in the day, the tix were free...). This ritual occurs at night (10pm or there abouts) and is much less attended than, say, the Changing of the Guard, since most tourists don't know of it.
There's a very "haunted" inn in York, but sadly I don't recall the name. While we didn't actually see a ghost, my travel companion and I both had spooky dreams, LoL.
Pack light - wear trainers for long walks, and bring pumps for "occasions." We found a pair of trousers, a skirt, a couple of blouses, and a jacket, all colour coordinated, worked out great. On one trip, the weather got cool, so I bought a lovely sweater (a "jumper" there) and cozy socks. Treat yourself to some new scarves to stretch your wardrobe. (I like to wear mostly black; bright coloured accessories "pop."
My deep apologies if these things have already been discussed at length. I was hoping to visit the UK, myself, this August, but plans fell through.
Have a fabulous time, Carol. Sites are amazingly close to one another.
Judy Loyaulte me lie

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:56 AM, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:

Hilary wrote:

Don't worry Carol, England is much smaller than the US (says she who twice drove from Dallas to LA) so if you have to move 10 miles up the road so what? I'd be far more worried if they had a Robbie Williams pop concert booked on the same day, which they once did in Sydney when I had to find accom there. To be serious though, the real culture trail in the UK is Stratford upon Avon, Warwick and the Cotswolds. Which is exactly why Leicester is so keen to get part of it. H
Carol responds:
Yes, the whole United Kingdom is smaller than the state I live in (Arizona). But, unfortunately, we have only eight days, so Shakespeare (and the Romantic poets I specialized in for my PhD) will have to wait. We can only do Richard on this trip. The beautiful statue at Leicester (I mistakenly thought it was at Bosworth) is an absolute must-see. I've seen photos of the armless monstrosity at Middleham and will have to grit my teeth when I see it. If anyone else is looking at it with me, I'll be sure to say, "That's not Richard."

Carol

Hilary wrote:
"If you're in London you could do Keats's house in Hampstead, depends how brave you are on the Tube. Yes 8 days is pushing it a bit. I hope you can enjoy, rather than rush round. The Yorkshire Dales are beautiful, try to take a breath and see what Richard saw in them."

Carol responds:
I loved the tubes when I was in London in 1995 (except for the occasional scheduled strike) but hated the buses (London is not exactly on a grid). But it looks like we'll have only one day in London. The problem is that I'm not communicating directly with the travel agent. Everything goes through my sister, who is paying for the trip as a birthday present to me. If only she knew the reasons each site is associated with Richard, but as a lawyer with a busy schedule, she doesn't have time for what to me are important details.

Carol

Westminster Hall and Westminster Abbey (both unmissable) in the morning and Tower of London in the afternoon....Eileen

Judy wrote:

Hi, Carol,
Forgive me if this has been suggested before (since I haven't been closely following your thread...mostly due to the way Yahoo gets everything so out of order), but on a time-restricted trip, we used to take night trains when available. The sleeping accommodations are small but comfy. There may also still be a very speedy train, London/York and back again.
Oh, and in London, watch the nightly ceremony of the Keys at the Tower. This requires applying for a ticket in advance (back in the day, the tix were free...). This ritual occurs at night (10pm or there abouts) and is much less attended than, say, the Changing of the Guard, since most tourists don't know of it.
There's a very "haunted" inn in York, but sadly I don't recall the name. While we didn't actually see a ghost, my travel companion and I both had spooky dreams, [snip."

Carol responds:
Thanks for the suggestions. It seems we'll be hiring a driver so no need for night trains. But the nightly keys ceremony sounds worth seeing.

Carol

Yes agree both Eileen! You might get a bit angry with the Beefeaters at the Tower Carol!

On Saturday, 15 February 2014, 18:51, "cherryripe.eileenb@..." <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
Westminster Hall and Westminster Abbey (both unmissable) in the morning and Tower of London in the afternoon....Eileen

The Abbey used to let you go down into the crypt one evening of the week. Does it still?

And the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower is usually booked for months in advance -- at least it was when I tried to get in. But it's the only way to see the Tower at night.

If you eat on the Tower Green, expect the ravens to want a donation. They're not shy about demanding it, but don't give it to them. On the other hand, I saw one make off with a half-sandwich from a child.

~Weds


---In , <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:

Westminster Hall and Westminster Abbey (both unmissable) in the morning and Tower of London in the afternoon....Eileen

Hilary wrote:
Yes agree both Eileen! You might get a bit angry with the Beefeaters at the Tower Carol!
Carol responds:
I'll just roll my eyes and suggest that they update their information--or at least distinguish between fact and conjecture!
Carol

I'd love to be a fly on the wall if you do that - their great monologue is on the Bloody Tower! I once upset a guide by asking to see the tomb of Mary Queen of Scots in Westminster Abby (which is in the same chapel as MB). She got very upset but gave in. People only wanted to see Elizabeth, she said. So if you want to see MB (out of curiosity not love) you may have to put your foot down. It is a splendid tomb. H

On Tuesday, 18 February 2014, 17:18, "justcarol67@..." <justcarol67@...> wrote:
Hilary wrote:
Yes agree both Eileen! You might get a bit angry with the Beefeaters at the Tower Carol!
Carol responds:
I'll just roll my eyes and suggest that they update their information--or at least distinguish between fact and conjecture!
Carol