A child king dead in 1483
A child king dead in 1483
I don't know if Maria has written about this at some point, but in the course of my own little investigations I looked into the affairs of the Foix family and came across a rather surprising story I'd never heard before.
King Francis of Navarre (known also as Francois Phébus), son of Gaston de Foix and Eleanor of Navarre, was a child king who died in January 1483 at the age of 16. It was widely believed he was poisoned. (The traditional story seems to be that the boy played a poisoned flute.)
Jean de Foix, Viscount Narbonne, was the young king's& wait for it& paternal uncle. After the boy's death, Jean usurped - or at least attempted to usurp - the throne of Navarre, though eventually he failed and the throne went to the boy's sister Catherine after all.
Jean was chummy with Louis XI, by the way, and with later kings of France too.
My first thoughts on reading this were:
(a) There seemed to be quite a few 'wicked uncles' about, didn't there?
(b) The time period right before and right after Louis XI's death was an especially risky time to be a young king or heir to the throne&
Also makes you wonder:
(a) Just how extensively planned were these French-sponsored coups d'état? The French obviously supported those candidates to neighbouring thrones who posed less of a risk to France in its transition period, but did their policy extend to actively eliminating riskier candidates?
(b) Just how much did the story of this other 'usurper uncle' of 1483 affect the legend of Richard?
Would be interesting to find out more about this story, though I've yet to find a book (in English or French) dealing with this subject in more detail. I'm guessing Maria has more information?
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
I can, however, fill in a couple of dots about his paternal ancestry:
His father was Gaston de Foix. Gaston's mother was Leonor of Navarre, whose father was Juan II of Aragon. This made Leonor the half-sister of Fernando of Aragon, husband of Isabel the Catholic.
Interestingly about Francis' grandmother Leonor is that she's suspected of poisoning her elder sister, Blanca: Blanca was married to Enrique IV of Castile for 13 years, but the marriage was never consummated. In 1453, the match was annulled, Enrique embarked on his disastrous marriage to Juana of Portugal (not "our" Joana) and Blanca returned to Navarre. She was incarcerated by her father Juan II and by Leonor.
The brother of Leonor and Blanca, Carlos Prince of Viana, was engaged in a war for Navarre against Papa Juan. Carlos was much more popular with the Navarrese than Papa Juan, and when Carlos died, possibly of TB, Blanca inherited his title and his popularity. She died of poison in 1464, and the title passed to Leonor who, wisely, didn't press her claim till Papa Juan died in 1479.
("Prince of Viana" is, for Navarre, the equivalent of "Prince of Wales" in England, and, incidentally, "Prince of Asturias" for Castile).
Leonor herself died that same year, and so Francis (Francois from on, for me) inherited this extremely uneasy crown at either the age of 10 or the age of 13, depending on whether he was born in 1466 or 1469 (Wikipedia is being contradictory here):
Taking a quick spin through Wikipedia, I find the following interesting detail:
The mother of Francis was Magdalene of Valois. Her parents were Charles VII of France and Marie of Anjou. Magdalene was the youngest of Louis XI's sisters; she was Francois' regent and also the regent for daughter Catherine, who inherited the title after Francois' death in 1483. Magdalene died, a hostage of Fernando of Aragon, in 1494.
Jean of Navarre, our wicked uncle, was Leonor's third son. He was born in 1450 and died in 1500. Eldest brother Gaston, Francois' father, was born in 1444 and died in 1470. In 1483, he based his claim to Navarre on the basis of being nearest male heir. Navarre didn't observe Salic Law and Catherine won the conflict in 1497. Wikipedia confirms Jean was on good terms with Louis XI and Louis XII. He married Marie of Orleans, sister to Louis XII (his daughter, Germaine, would be the second wife of Fernando of Aragon).
Gaston, father of Francois, was born in 1444 and died as a result of a jousting accident in 1470. He was Prince of Navarre, but died before he succeeded to the throne.
So the very violent and tangled line of succession in this short period of Navarre is this:
Charles III of Navarre (1361-1425) His daughter, Blanca I was the wife of
Juan II of Aragon (1398-1479) who fought for the crown of Navarre against
Carlos IV Prince of Viana (1421-1461), and his son; and possibly got rid of
Blanca II (1424-1464), and his daughter; and who was briefly succeeded by
Leonor (1426-1479), his daughter. Who, after she died, was succeeded by
Francois (1466/69?-1483), her grandson, because her son Gaston had died in 1470; and Francois was succeeded by his sister
Catalina/Catherine (1468-1517); and who owed her succession to their regent mother
Magdalene of Valois (1443-1495), who stood up against the claims of
Jean de Foix (1450-1500), who apparently had the alliance of Louis XI despite the fact that Magdelene was Louis' sister.
Definitely bears investigation, especially when you consider that Louis XI was dying in 1483 and would be dead in August. Much though it pains me, I have to try to see things from Louis' point of view, remembering that the Hundred Year War had ended only about 30 years previously; that much of his energy was directed against Burgundy and that he was undoubtedly trying make things as stable as possible for his own posterity- his own son would be a minor, so there was plenty for Louis to have to bulwark for him.
Much rushed,
Mariaejbronte@...
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:19 PM, pansydobersby <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't know if Maria has written about this at some point, but in the course of my own little investigations I looked into the affairs of the Foix family and came across a rather surprising story I'd never heard before.
King Francis of Navarre (known also as Francois Phébus), son of Gaston de Foix and Eleanor of Navarre, was a child king who died in January 1483 at the age of 16. It was widely believed he was poisoned. (The traditional story seems to be that the boy played a poisoned flute.)
Jean de Foix, Viscount Narbonne, was the young king's… wait for it… paternal uncle. After the boy's death, Jean usurped - or at least attempted to usurp - the throne of Navarre, though eventually he failed and the throne went to the boy's sister Catherine after all.
Jean was chummy with Louis XI, by the way, and with later kings of France too.
My first thoughts on reading this were:
(a) There seemed to be quite a few 'wicked uncles' about, didn't there?
(b) The time period right before and right after Louis XI's death was an especially risky time to be a young king or heir to the throne…
Also makes you wonder:
(a) Just how extensively planned were these French-sponsored coups d'état? The French obviously supported those candidates to neighbouring thrones who posed less of a risk to France in its transition period, but did their policy extend to actively eliminating riskier candidates?
(b) Just how much did the story of this other 'usurper uncle' of 1483 affect the legend of Richard?
Would be interesting to find out more about this story, though I've yet to find a book (in English or French) dealing with this subject in more detail. I'm guessing Maria has more information?
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
How
interesting! I don't know Francis, and it'll be fascinating to do some
digging.
I can,
however, fill in a couple of dots about his paternal ancestry:
His father
was Gaston de Foix. Gaston's mother was Leonor of Navarre, whose father
was Juan II of Aragon. This made Leonor the half-sister of Fernando of
Aragon, husband of Isabel the Catholic.
Interestingly
about Francis' grandmother Leonor is that she's suspected of poisoning her elder
sister, Blanca: Blanca was married to Enrique IV of Castile for 13 years,
but the marriage was never consummated. In 1453, the match was annulled,
Enrique embarked on his disastrous marriage to Juana of Portugal (not "our"
Joana) and Blanca returned to Navarre. She was incarcerated by her father
Juan II and by Leonor.
The brother
of Leonor and Blanca, Carlos Prince of Viana, was engaged in a war for Navarre
against Papa Juan. Carlos was much more popular with the Navarrese than
Papa Juan, and when Carlos died, possibly of TB, Blanca inherited his title and
his popularity. She died of poison in 1464, and the title passed to Leonor
who, wisely, didn't press her claim till Papa Juan died in 1479.
("Prince of
Viana" is, for Navarre, the equivalent of "Prince of Wales" in England, and,
incidentally, "Prince of Asturias" for Castile).
Leonor
herself died that same year, and so Francis (Francois from on, for me) inherited
this extremely uneasy crown at either the age of 10 or the age of 13, depending
on whether he was born in 1466 or 1469 (Wikipedia is being contradictory
here):
Taking a
quick spin through Wikipedia, I find the following interesting detail:
The mother
of Francis was Magdalene of Valois. Her parents were Charles VII of
France and Marie of Anjou. Magdalene was the youngest of Louis XI's
sisters; she was Francois' regent and also the regent for daughter Catherine,
who inherited the title after Francois' death in 1483. Magdalene died, a
hostage of Fernando of Aragon, in 1494.
Jean of
Navarre, our wicked uncle, was Leonor's third son. He was born in 1450 and
died in 1500. Eldest brother Gaston, Francois' father, was born in 1444
and died in 1470. In 1483, he based his claim to Navarre on the basis of
being nearest male heir. Navarre didn't observe Salic Law and Catherine
won the conflict in 1497. Wikipedia confirms Jean was on good terms with
Louis XI and Louis XII. He married Marie of Orleans, sister to Louis XII
(his daughter, Germaine, would be the second wife of Fernando of Aragon).
Gaston,
father of Francois, was born in 1444 and died as a result of a jousting accident
in 1470. He was Prince of Navarre, but died before he succeeded to the
throne.
So the very
violent and tangled line of succession in this short period of Navarre is
this:
Charles III
of Navarre (1361-1425) His daughter, Blanca I was the wife of
Juan II of
Aragon (1398-1479) who fought for the crown of Navarre against
Carlos IV
Prince of Viana (1421-1461), and his son; and possibly got rid of
Blanca II
(1424-1464), and his daughter; and who was briefly succeeded by
Leonor
(1426-1479), his daughter. Who, after she died, was succeeded by
Francois
(1466/69?-1483), her grandson, because her son Gaston had died in 1470; and
Francois was succeeded by his sister
Catalina/Catherine
(1468-1517); and who owed her succession to their regent mother
Magdalene
of Valois (1443-1495), who stood up against the claims of
Jean de
Foix (1450-1500), who apparently had the alliance of Louis XI despite the fact
that Magdelene was Louis' sister.
Definitely
bears investigation, especially when you consider that Louis XI was dying in
1483 and would be dead in August. Much though it pains me, I have to try
to see things from Louis' point of view, remembering that the Hundred Year War
had ended only about 30 years previously; that much of his energy was directed
against Burgundy and that he was undoubtedly trying make things as stable as
possible for his own posterity- his own son would be a minor, so there was
plenty for Louis to have to bulwark for him.
Much
rushed,
Maria
ejbronte@...
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:19 PM, pansydobersby <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't know if Maria has written about this at some point, but in the course of my own little investigations I looked into the affairs of the Foix family and came across a rather surprising story I'd never heard before.
King Francis of Navarre (known also as Francois Phébus), son of Gaston de Foix and Eleanor of Navarre, was a child king who died in January 1483 at the age of 16. It was widely believed he was poisoned. (The traditional story seems to be that the boy played a poisoned flute.)
Jean de Foix, Viscount Narbonne, was the young king's& wait for it& paternal uncle. After the boy's death, Jean usurped - or at least attempted to usurp - the throne of Navarre, though eventually he failed and the throne went to the boy's sister Catherine after all.
Jean was chummy with Louis XI, by the way, and with later kings of France too.
My first thoughts on reading this were:
(a) There seemed to be quite a few 'wicked uncles' about, didn't there?
(b) The time period right before and right after Louis XI's death was an especially risky time to be a young king or heir to the throne&
Also makes you wonder:
(a) Just how extensively planned were these French-sponsored coups d'état? The French obviously supported those candidates to neighbouring thrones who posed less of a risk to France in its transition period, but did their policy extend to actively eliminating riskier candidates?
(b) Just how much did the story of this other 'usurper uncle' of 1483 affect the legend of Richard?
Would be interesting to find out more about this story, though I've yet to find a book (in English or French) dealing with this subject in more detail. I'm guessing Maria has more information?
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
Thank you, Maria - I knew I could count on you! :)
Sorry, of course I meant that Gaston IV de Foix and Leonor of Navarre were Jean's parents, and therefore Francois' grandparents& but you made the whole thing so clear. What a fascinating, complicated and bloody line of succession, indeed.
I agree with you, by the way, that it's easy to see why Louis XI would have felt it necessary to& do whatever it is that he did. Thinking about this further, it does make one wonder if Edward IV's death was just a lucky coincidence, or&
Another thing that piqued my interest was that Jean 'Wicked Uncle' de Foix's sister Marguerite was the wife of Francis II of Brittany. Doesn't mean anything on its own, of course, but - still. Goes to show how very small that world was back then.
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
Thank you, Maria - I knew I could count on you! :)
Sorry, of course I meant that Gaston IV de Foix and Leonor of Navarre were Jean's parents, and therefore Francois' grandparents& but you made the whole thing so clear. What a fascinating, complicated and bloody line of succession, indeed.
I agree with you, by the way, that it's easy to see why Louis XI would have felt it necessary to& do whatever it is that he did. Thinking about this further, it does make one wonder if Edward IV's death was just a lucky coincidence, or&
Another thing that piqued my interest was that Jean 'Wicked Uncle' de Foix's sister Marguerite was the wife of Francis II of Brittany. Doesn't mean anything on its own, of course, but - still. Goes to show how very small that world was back then.
Pansy
Re : [Richard III Society Forum] A child king dead in 1483
Regards
David
From: pansydobersby <[email protected]>;
To: <>;
Subject: A child king dead in 1483
Sent: Sun, Feb 16, 2014 6:19:22 PM
I don't know if Maria has written about this at some point, but in the course of my own little investigations I looked into the affairs of the Foix family and came across a rather surprising story I'd never heard before.
King Francis of Navarre (known also as Francois Phébus), son of Gaston de Foix and Eleanor of Navarre, was a child king who died in January 1483 at the age of 16. It was widely believed he was poisoned. (The traditional story seems to be that the boy played a poisoned flute.)
Jean de Foix, Viscount Narbonne, was the young king's& wait for it& paternal uncle. After the boy's death, Jean usurped - or at least attempted to usurp - the throne of Navarre, though eventually he failed and the throne went to the boy's sister Catherine after all.
Jean was chummy with Louis XI, by the way, and with later kings of France too.
My first thoughts on reading this were:
(a) There seemed to be quite a few 'wicked uncles' about, didn't there?
(b) The time period right before and right after Louis XI's death was an especially risky time to be a young king or heir to the throne&
Also makes you wonder:
(a) Just how extensively planned were these French-sponsored coups d'état? The French obviously supported those candidates to neighbouring thrones who posed less of a risk to France in its transition period, but did their policy extend to actively eliminating riskier candidates?
(b) Just how much did the story of this other 'usurper uncle' of 1483 affect the legend of Richard?
Would be interesting to find out more about this story, though I've yet to find a book (in English or French) dealing with this subject in more detail. I'm guessing Maria has more information?
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
On Sunday, 16 February 2014, 20:13, Maria Torres <ejbronte@...> wrote:
How interesting! I don't know Francis, and it'll be fascinating to do some digging.
I can, however, fill in a couple of dots about his paternal ancestry:
His father was Gaston de Foix. Gaston's mother was Leonor of Navarre, whose father was Juan II of Aragon. This made Leonor the half-sister of Fernando of Aragon, husband of Isabel the Catholic.
Interestingly about Francis' grandmother Leonor is that she's suspected of poisoning her elder sister, Blanca: Blanca was married to Enrique IV of Castile for 13 years, but the marriage was never consummated. In 1453, the match was annulled, Enrique embarked on his disastrous marriage to Juana of Portugal (not "our" Joana) and Blanca returned to Navarre. She was incarcerated by her father Juan II and by Leonor.
The brother of Leonor and Blanca, Carlos Prince of Viana, was engaged in a war for Navarre against Papa Juan. Carlos was much more popular with the Navarrese than Papa Juan, and when Carlos died, possibly of TB, Blanca inherited his title and his popularity. She died of poison in 1464, and the title passed to Leonor who, wisely, didn't press her claim till Papa Juan died in 1479.
("Prince of Viana" is, for Navarre, the equivalent of "Prince of Wales" in England, and, incidentally, "Prince of Asturias" for Castile).
Leonor herself died that same year, and so Francis (Francois from on, for me) inherited this extremely uneasy crown at either the age of 10 or the age of 13, depending on whether he was born in 1466 or 1469 (Wikipedia is being contradictory here):
Taking a quick spin through Wikipedia, I find the following interesting detail:
The mother of Francis was Magdalene of Valois. Her parents were Charles VII of France and Marie of Anjou. Magdalene was the youngest of Louis XI's sisters; she was Francois' regent and also the regent for daughter Catherine, who inherited the title after Francois' death in 1483. Magdalene died, a hostage of Fernando of Aragon, in 1494.
Jean of Navarre, our wicked uncle, was Leonor's third son. He was born in 1450 and died in 1500. Eldest brother Gaston, Francois' father, was born in 1444 and died in 1470. In 1483, he based his claim to Navarre on the basis of being nearest male heir. Navarre didn't observe Salic Law and Catherine won the conflict in 1497. Wikipedia confirms Jean was on good terms with Louis XI and Louis XII. He married Marie of Orleans, sister to Louis XII (his daughter, Germaine, would be the second wife of Fernando of Aragon).
Gaston, father of Francois, was born in 1444 and died as a result of a jousting accident in 1470. He was Prince of Navarre, but died before he succeeded to the throne.
So the very violent and tangled line of succession in this short period of Navarre is this:
Charles III of Navarre (1361-1425) His daughter, Blanca I was the wife of
Juan II of Aragon (1398-1479) who fought for the crown of Navarre against
Carlos IV Prince of Viana (1421-1461), and his son; and possibly got rid of
Blanca II (1424-1464), and his daughter; and who was briefly succeeded by
Leonor (1426-1479), his daughter. Who, after she died, was succeeded by
Francois (1466/69?-1483), her grandson, because her son Gaston had died in 1470; and Francois was succeeded by his sister
Catalina/Catherine (1468-1517); and who owed her succession to their regent mother
Magdalene of Valois (1443-1495), who stood up against the claims of
Jean de Foix (1450-1500), who apparently had the alliance of Louis XI despite the fact that Magdelene was Louis' sister.
Definitely bears investigation, especially when you consider that Louis XI was dying in 1483 and would be dead in August. Much though it pains me, I have to try to see things from Louis' point of view, remembering that the Hundred Year War had ended only about 30 years previously; that much of his energy was directed against Burgundy and that he was undoubtedly trying make things as stable as possible for his own posterity- his own son would be a minor, so there was plenty for Louis to have to bulwark for him.
Much rushed,
Mariaejbronte@...
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:19 PM, pansydobersby <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't know if Maria has written about this at some point, but in the course of my own little investigations I looked into the affairs of the Foix family and came across a rather surprising story I'd never heard before.
King Francis of Navarre (known also as Francois Phébus), son of Gaston de Foix and Eleanor of Navarre, was a child king who died in January 1483 at the age of 16. It was widely believed he was poisoned. (The traditional story seems to be that the boy played a poisoned flute.)
Jean de Foix, Viscount Narbonne, was the young king's& wait for it& paternal uncle. After the boy's death, Jean usurped - or at least attempted to usurp - the throne of Navarre, though eventually he failed and the throne went to the boy's sister Catherine after all.
Jean was chummy with Louis XI, by the way, and with later kings of France too.
My first thoughts on reading this were: (a) There seemed to be quite a few 'wicked uncles' about, didn't there? (b) The time period right before and right after Louis XI's death was an especially risky time to be a young king or heir to the throne&
Also makes you wonder: (a) Just how extensively planned were these French-sponsored coups d'état? The French obviously supported those candidates to neighbouring thrones who posed less of a risk to France in its transition period, but did their policy extend to actively eliminating riskier candidates? (b) Just how much did the story of this other 'usurper uncle' of 1483 affect the legend of Richard?
Would be interesting to find out more about this story, though I've yet to find a book (in English or French) dealing with this subject in more detail. I'm guessing Maria has more information?
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
I've got the gut feeling they *did* expect Henry to succeed (in their shoes, I'd probably have thought eliminating Richard to be a necessity, myself) but didn't expect his reign to be as (relatively) stable as it was. They must have realised how weak Henry's claim was... what they may have had in mind was keeping *Henry* busy with internal disruption for the unforeseeable future. Wars of the Roses ad infinitum, with nobody left who had a sufficiently strong claim to the throne to attain any real legitimacy...
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
Sorry, I just realised 'internal disruption' makes it sound like Henry had an upset stomach. That's not quite what I had in mind ;) Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
On Monday, 17 February 2014, 15:00, pansydobersby <[email protected]> wrote:
Hilary wrote:"If you look at the politics in the early reign of Henry VII it echoes this - and it's not at all surprising that Henry turned out to be a bit of an unnecessary pest to France. Perhaps they thought he'd never succeed; just cause enough disruption to divert Richard into English affairs, rather than avenging the 1475 pension? H "
I've got the gut feeling they *did* expect Henry to succeed (in their shoes, I'd probably have thought eliminating Richard to be a necessity, myself) but didn't expect his reign to be as (relatively) stable as it was. They must have realised how weak Henry's claim was... what they may have had in mind was keeping *Henry* busy with internal disruption for the unforeseeable future. Wars of the Roses ad infinitum, with nobody left who had a sufficiently strong claim to the throne to attain any real legitimacy...
Pansy
Re: A child king dead in 1483
