Not Richard's appearance, but Henry's

Came someone---anyone---confirm that it was Henry's left eye that wandered? Penn says so. The various portraits are hard to decipher for certain, and I know they were often mirrored and so on. So is Penn correct? I'm begging here. Sandra =^..^=

I would agree with Penn (who is mentioned in my next book) if there are trustworthy sources. Remember Richard’s shoulders – Vergil and More couldn’t agree which one was higher.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of SandraMachin
Sent: 05 March 2014 18:42
To:
Subject: [Richard III Society Forum] Not Richard's appearance, but Henry's

Came someone---anyone---confirm that it was Henry’s left eye that wandered? Penn says so. The various portraits are hard to decipher for certain, and I know they were often mirrored and so on. So is Penn correct? I’m begging here.

Sandra

=^..^=

Thank you, Stephen. Good luck with the book. Sandra =^..^= From: Stephen Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 7:04 PM To: Subject: RE: Not Richard's appearance, but Henry's

I would agree with Penn (who is mentioned in my next book) if there are trustworthy sources. Remember Richard's shoulders  Vergil and More couldn't agree which one was higher.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of SandraMachin
Sent: 05 March 2014 18:42
To:
Subject: Not Richard's appearance, but Henry's

Came someone---anyone---confirm that it was Henry's left eye that wandered? Penn says so. The various portraits are hard to decipher for certain, and I know they were often mirrored and so on. So is Penn correct? I'm begging here.

Sandra

=^..^=

Sandra asked:
Came someone---anyone---confirm that it was Henry's left eye that
wandered? Penn says so. The various portraits are hard to decipher for
certain, and I know they were often mirrored and so on. So is Penn
correct? I'm begging here.


Weds writes:
His death mask still exists (just google Henry VII death mask), and it
confirms it was his left eye.

--
"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its
cussedness; but we can try" - Mark Twain

Weds wrote:
"His death mask still exists (just google Henry VII death mask), and it
confirms it was his left eye."


Carol responds:

Isn't it an effigy based on the death mask rather than the death mask itself? In any case, I don't see any sign of a cast (which, I assume, means that one eye is crossed in?). However, it's interesting that Henry never (or almost never) looks straight at the viewer in any of his portraits. His eyes are always looking either to the right or the left. I always assumed that that was a character trait (Henry always went at everything sideways like a crab, to paraphrase Josephine Tey), but it could well be an effective way of disguising a crossed eye.

Carol

Weds wrote:
"His death mask still exists (just google Henry VII death mask), and
it confirms it was his left eye."


Carol responds:

Isn't it an effigy based on the death mask rather than the death mask
itself? In any case, I don't see any sign of a cast (which, I assume,
means that one eye is crossed in?). However, it's interesting that
Henry never (or almost never) looks straight at the viewer in any of
his portraits. His eyes are always looking either to the right or the
left. I always assumed that that was a character trait (Henry always
went at everything sideways like a crab, to paraphrase Josephine Tey),
but it could well be an effective way of disguising a crossed eye.


Weds writes:

The wooden bust is all that's left of the effigy that graced his
coffin on procession. So I suppose you're right -- the effigy is based
on the death mask. But if you Google for desk mask Henry VII, the bit
of effigy is what comes up. Sorry for not being more exact.

To me, the effigy has Henry's left eye looking outward slightly -- not
inward. So not cross-eyed. Perhaps there are other sources that can
clarify if this is correct. I've seen his vision described as "cast
eye" and "a squint".

Henry seems to have had an eye condition called strabismus which
prevents the eyes from aiming at the same point in space. It's also
known as heterotropia and includes three variants: cross-eye, lazy-eye
and walleye. This condition includes horizontal tropias exotropia and
esotropia which are outward and inward horizontal deviations and
hypertropia and hypotropia which are when one eye is set higher or
lower than the other eye. Exotropia and esotropia are also known as
divergent or convergent squint respectively.

But hey, he can be crosseyed if you like. Or perfect-visioned and
slanty-charactered. St Henry, patron saint to the greedy.

The Book, by Wednesday……please!

From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of wednesdaymac .
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:18 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Not Richard's appearance, but Henry's

Weds wrote:
"His death mask still exists (just google Henry VII death mask), and
it confirms it was his left eye."

Carol responds:

Isn't it an effigy based on the death mask rather than the death mask
itself? In any case, I don't see any sign of a cast (which, I assume,
means that one eye is crossed in?). However, it's interesting that
Henry never (or almost never) looks straight at the viewer in any of
his portraits. His eyes are always looking either to the right or the
left. I always assumed that that was a character trait (Henry always
went at everything sideways like a crab, to paraphrase Josephine Tey),
but it could well be an effective way of disguising a crossed eye.

Weds writes:

The wooden bust is all that's left of the effigy that graced his
coffin on procession. So I suppose you're right -- the effigy is based
on the death mask. But if you Google for desk mask Henry VII, the bit
of effigy is what comes up. Sorry for not being more exact.

To me, the effigy has Henry's left eye looking outward slightly -- not
inward. So not cross-eyed. Perhaps there are other sources that can
clarify if this is correct. I've seen his vision described as "cast
eye" and "a squint".

Henry seems to have had an eye condition called strabismus which
prevents the eyes from aiming at the same point in space. It's also
known as heterotropia and includes three variants: cross-eye, lazy-eye
and walleye. This condition includes horizontal tropias exotropia and
esotropia which are outward and inward horizontal deviations and
hypertropia and hypotropia which are when one eye is set higher or
lower than the other eye. Exotropia and esotropia are also known as
divergent or convergent squint respectively.

But hey, he can be crosseyed if you like. Or perfect-visioned and
slanty-charactered. St Henry, patron saint to the greedy.

Weds wrote:
" [snip] Henry seems to have had an eye condition called strabismus which
prevents the eyes from aiming at the same point in space. It's also
known as heterotropia and includes three variants: cross-eye, lazy-eye
and walleye. This condition includes horizontal tropias exotropia and
esotropia which are outward and inward horizontal deviations and
hypertropia and hypotropia which are when one eye is set higher or
lower than the other eye. Exotropia and esotropia are also known as
divergent or convergent squint respectively. [snip]"

Carol responds:
I knew about strabismus and lazy eye (amblyopia)--also walleye (though I didn't know it was called exotropia) from the Gaunt family in "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince," but despite a lifetime of going to optometrists and ophthalmologists for conditions ranging from astigmatism to cataracts was unaware of most of those terms. I suspect that Henry's doctors didn't know them, either, despite the Greco-Latin roots. (Out of curiosity, I looked up the first use of "strabismus" and found it was 1684, so it's safe to say that Henry's physician, if he dared to mention it, called it a "cast." After some searching through a variety of definitions for the noun "cast," I found " a turning of the eye in a particular direction," which is not much help. It could have been either eso- or exotropia (or, in plain English, a cross-eye or a wall-eye (I'm thinking of "wall-eyed pike"). I think I'll picture him as having one wall-eye (like Mr. Lovegood in "HP and the Deathly Hallows," to give another J. K. Rowling example. Funny that I haven't run across it in any references to him in Richard III books, maybe because he's just the Tydder, whose illegitimacy, "usurpation upon him" of a claim to the throne, and, ultimately, invasion of England were all that mattered to Richard and whose backdating of his reign, declaring Richard and his followers traitors, and reversing of Titulus Regius matter more to (pro-)Richard biographers than his physical traits. And, of course, history was written by the victor (regardless of the fact that he shouldn't have won!), so any unusual physical traits of Richard's (small size, raised shoulder) were exaggerated whereas any Henry had were ignored. (Still, he looks very sly in his most famous portrait, painted in his lifetime, and the hands positioned on the frame are disconcerting!)

Carol

Thank you Carol for the chuckle at the last part of your post. As you will probably remember the Tydder was christened "the Weasel" on this Forum. Some years ago, when members of the Branch that I belong to went out to lunch at Christmas time, we discovered that the hotel, that we had booked had a copy of a painting of him. The consensus of opinion was that he looked like a ferret.
Mary