"Sweating sickness" = MERS?

I was looking something up in Penn's "Winter King" and came across the following: "The likely cause, a 'pitiful disease' that 'with so sore and great violence had battled and driven, in the singular part of him inward' was the sweating sickness, the lethal flu-like virus whose symptoms included a raging temperature, convulsing intestinal pain, asphyxiation and acute kidney failure." If one substitutes "pneumonia" for "asphyxiation" (which, untreated, pneumonia produces), isn't that a nearly-exact description of MERS (Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome)? According to Penn, Prince Arthur had been sick for nearly two months before a decline that was "swift and brutal." The articles I've seen on MERS give the fatality rate as 1 in 3, but also seem to connect the disease with dromedary (single hump) camels with no idea of how it's spread to humans. From the article: "It can spread from person to person, but officials believe that happens on after close contact. Not all those exposed to the virus become ill." Hopefully the following url works: http://news.msn.com/us/cdc-confirms-first-case-of-mers-virus-in-american Doug (who just thought this *might* be of interest)

Douglas, that is very interesting. However, we have no idea what the "sweating sickness" my actually have been. If Arthur had it, why didn't those close to him also have it? I heard a physician speak this morning, and he said that close contact, through breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc. is the method of transport. Of course, that is in the 21st Century, when so many people are so sanitized, that their immune systems are vulnerable. I would imagine then, that most people had very active immune systems, due to their sanitary conditions, even the wealthy.
On May 3, 2014, at 10:53 AM, "Douglas Eugene Stamate" <destama@...> wrote:

I was looking something up in Penn's "Winter King" and came across the following: "The likely cause, a 'pitiful disease' that 'with so sore and great violence had battled and driven, in the singular part of him inward' was the sweating sickness, the lethal flu-like virus whose symptoms included a raging temperature, convulsing intestinal pain, asphyxiation and acute kidney failure." If one substitutes "pneumonia" for "asphyxiation" (which, untreated, pneumonia produces), isn't that a nearly-exact description of MERS (Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome)? According to Penn, Prince Arthur had been sick for nearly two months before a decline that was "swift and brutal." The articles I've seen on MERS give the fatality rate as 1 in 3, but also seem to connect the disease with dromedary (single hump) camels with no idea of how it's spread to humans. From the article: "It can spread from person to person, but officials believe that happens on after close contact. Not all those exposed to the virus become ill." Hopefully the following url works: http://news.msn.com/us/cdc-confirms-first-case-of-mers-virus-in-american Doug (who just thought this *might* be of interest)

Pamela wrote: Douglas, this is very interesting. However, we have no idea what the 'sweating sickness' may actually have been. If Arthur had it, why didn't those close to him also have it? I heard a physician speak this morning, and he said that close contact, through breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc. is the method of transport. Of course, that is in the 21st century, when so many people are so sanitized, that their immune systems are vulnerable, I would imagine then, that most people had very active immune systems, due to their sanitary conditions, even the wealthy." Doug here: If I read the article correctly, it's not that MERS (which is related to the common cold and 'flu) is so easily spread, it's that *if* one's immune system doesn't nip it in the bud when it first shows up, which is what occurs with *most* infections, MERS can then become lethal (that "one-in-three" survival rate). If Arthur had *already* been ill, then his immune system would already have been compromised, which wouldn't necessarily have applied to around him Since *this* infections seems to be associated with a quadruped (dromedary camels), perhaps there *might* be, or have been, a similar one associated with horses, cattle, sheep? Or even pigs, which are known to be quite "human-like" when it comes to diseases. Even if Arthur didn't hang around the livestock himself (except maybe for horses), there'd be all sorts of people who did and with whom he'd come into contact. Doug

Although.........virus's tend to be ever present, and always mutating, so whatever the "sweating sickness" was it is unlikely to have been driven from the earth forever.
Maybe it is staging a comeback..

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>;
To: <>;
Cc: Doug Stamate <destama@...>;
Subject: "Sweating sickness" = MERS?
Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 4:39:11 PM

 

Pamela wrote: Douglas, this is very interesting. However, we have no idea what the 'sweating sickness' may actually have been. If Arthur had it, why didn't those close to him also have it? I heard a physician speak this morning, and he said that close contact, through breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc. is the method of transport. Of course, that is in the 21st century, when so many people are so sanitized, that their immune systems are vulnerable, I would imagine then, that most people had very active immune systems, due to their sanitary conditions, even the wealthy."   Doug here: If I read the article correctly, it's not that MERS (which is related to the common cold and 'flu) is so easily spread, it's that *if* one's immune system doesn't nip it in the bud when it first shows up, which is what occurs with *most* infections, MERS can then become lethal (that "one-in-three" survival rate). If Arthur had *already* been ill, then his immune system would already have been compromised, which wouldn't necessarily have applied to around him Since *this* infections seems to be associated with a quadruped (dromedary camels), perhaps there *might* be, or have been, a similar one associated with horses, cattle, sheep? Or even pigs, which are known to be quite "human-like" when it comes to diseases. Even if Arthur didn't hang around the livestock himself (except maybe for horses), there'd be all sorts of people who did and with whom he'd come into contact. Doug

I would love to have a physician or biologist who does vector analysis of such diseases do some research. As with most things, there is nothing new under the sun. Things just disappear, and then return. We thought cholera, thymus, polio, measles and mumps had disappeared, and yet here they are again. I have a young friend who suffers from recurring shingles, which usually hits older folks who had the chicken pox. However, her doctor told her even though she had been inoculated for chicken pox, the clever little virus had become resistant and is now preying on younger people. I do not dispute your reasoning at all......I find the conjecture to he fascinating. And think about it, the Crusaders had contact with camels. What if the infection came back with them, and somehow stayed alive in other hosts, such as horses, cows and goats.
On May 4, 2014, at 10:40 AM, "Douglas Eugene Stamate" <destama@...> wrote:

Pamela wrote: Douglas, this is very interesting. However, we have no idea what the 'sweating sickness' may actually have been. If Arthur had it, why didn't those close to him also have it? I heard a physician speak this morning, and he said that close contact, through breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc. is the method of transport. Of course, that is in the 21st century, when so many people are so sanitized, that their immune systems are vulnerable, I would imagine then, that most people had very active immune systems, due to their sanitary conditions, even the wealthy." Doug here: If I read the article correctly, it's not that MERS (which is related to the common cold and 'flu) is so easily spread, it's that *if* one's immune system doesn't nip it in the bud when it first shows up, which is what occurs with *most* infections, MERS can then become lethal (that "one-in-three" survival rate). If Arthur had *already* been ill, then his immune system would already have been compromised, which wouldn't necessarily have applied to around him Since *this* infections seems to be associated with a quadruped (dromedary camels), perhaps there *might* be, or have been, a similar one associated with horses, cattle, sheep? Or even pigs, which are known to be quite "human-like" when it comes to diseases. Even if Arthur didn't hang around the livestock himself (except maybe for horses), there'd be all sorts of people who did and with whom he'd come into contact. Doug

Jess wrote: "Although.........virus's tend to be ever present, and always mutating, so whatever the 'sweating sickness' was it is unlikely to have been driven from the earth forever. Maybe it is staging a comeback." Doug Now *there's* a lovely thought!

Pamela wrote: "I would love to have a physician or biologist who does vector analysis of such diseases do some research. As with most things, there is nothing new under the sun. Things just disappear, and then return. We thought cholera, thymus, polio, measles and mumps has disappeared, and yet here they are again. I have a young friend who suffers from recurring shingles, which usually hits older folks who had the chicken pox. However, her doctor told her even though she had been inoculated for chicken pox, the clever little virus had become resistant and is now preying on younger people. I do not dispute you reasoing at all......I find the conjecture to be fascinating. And think about it, the Crusaders had contact with camels. What if the infection came back with them, and somehow stayed alive in other hosts, such as horses, cow and goats." Doug here: If I remember correctly, many Crusaders had their horses shipped to the Middle East and, presumably, then back to Europe. If other quadrupeds *can* carry the virus, that could certainly have been the "how." Has anyone written anything aobut when the "sweating sickness" was first noted as occurring? Even if it should be well after the Crusades, there still was a lot of trade going on between the Levant and Europe. Doug

I read about it om-line, and of course Wikipedia has a lot of information. I do not know if it has been addressed by a scholar – physician or biologist. A thousand years ago, when I was a student I took a biology class from an professor who worked with the Tropical Medicine Department at Tulane University. He was brilliant and fascinating. Since I was an English Major, some of the things we discussed connected with my studies of English and History. But, that was a long time ago!

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From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Douglas Eugene Stamate
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:28 AM
To:
Cc: Doug Stamate
Subject: "Sweating sickness" = MERS?

Pamela wrote:

"I would love to have a physician or biologist who does vector analysis of such diseases do some research. As with most things, there is nothing new under the sun. Things just disappear, and then return. We thought cholera, thymus, polio, measles and mumps has disappeared, and yet here they are again. I have a young friend who suffers from recurring shingles, which usually hits older folks who had the chicken pox. However, her doctor told her even though she had been inoculated for chicken pox, the clever little virus had become resistant and is now preying on younger people. I do not dispute you reasoing at all......I find the conjecture to be fascinating. And think about it, the Crusaders had contact with camels. What if the infection came back with them, and somehow stayed alive in other hosts, such as horses, cow and goats."

Doug here:

If I remember correctly, many Crusaders had their horses shipped to the Middle East and, presumably, then back to Europe. If other quadrupeds *can* carry the virus, that could certainly have been the "how." Has anyone written anything aobut when the "sweating sickness" was first noted as occurring? Even if it should be well after the Crusades, there still was a lot of trade going on between the Levant and Europe.

Doug