Wright stuff wrong

On morning chat show the discussion was about a new law that would ban
forced marriage. as an example of forced marriage in the past "according
to Shakespeare Richard III's marriage to Anne was forced". Along with
this line was a split screen of two portraits, Richard and Elizabeth
Woodville!
i object to both his and Anne's names being used, and the fact that
Elizabeth Woodville should have been used in place of Anne, who they
clearly couldn't find a portrait of, as there isn't one that we know of!
Sloppy researchers again!
Paul

--
Richard Liveth Yet!

"According to Shakespeare" Richard fought at St Albans - when he was about three years old. Dear old Shakespeare! If he was alive today, he might have written me as opening the batting for Lancashire, or inventing nuclear fission. I do wish journalists would resist the temptation to treat him as an historical source. The same goes for More.

If not Dickie, then perhaps Ned (Edward IV and V). Could the monkey be female? Maggie (Margaret of Burgundy); Lizzie (EW); Jacquetta or some variation on Cicely (Cissie/Cis).
Nico

On Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 7:50, "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <> wrote:


I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner.

Boar-ing!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Suggestions duly noted, Nico.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

If not Dickie, then perhaps Ned (Edward IV and V). Could the monkey be female? Maggie (Margaret of Burgundy); Lizzie (EW); Jacquetta or some variation on Cicely (Cissie/Cis).

Nico

On Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 7:50, "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <> wrote:

I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner.

Thought about "Blaybourne", but he wouldn't really want to impugn his wife's claim. So I'm not sure there's an obvious one aimed directly at the House of York. And, in a sense, what would be the point? They're either all dead or, if any are still out there, too serious to joke about. I could imagine him calling a monkey "Stanley", though. Or how about "Cardinal"? Certainly, he was the sort to be very knowing and unsentimental about the ladders by which he ascended... Jonathan
From: "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 7:50
Subject: [Richard III Society Forum] Name the Monkey
I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner.

Oh, a not very original suggestion. It is certainly not boring!!!! I am just not as clever as the others who have suggested names!

By the way, hurry up and finish book IV, as I have completed the first three!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:52 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Not sure if that’s a suggestion or an opinion, Pamela.

Sandra
=^..^=

From: mailto:
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:11 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Name the Monkey

Boar-ing!

----------------------------------------------------------

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Suggestions duly noted, Nico.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

If not Dickie, then perhaps Ned (Edward IV and V). Could the monkey be female? Maggie (Margaret of Burgundy); Lizzie (EW); Jacquetta or some variation on Cicely (Cissie/Cis).

Nico

On Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 7:50, "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <> wrote:

I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner.

Oh, a not very original suggestion. It is certainly not boring!!!! I am just not as clever as the others who have suggested names!

By the way, hurry up and finish book IV, as I have completed the first three!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:52 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Not sure if that's a suggestion or an opinion, Pamela.

Sandra
=^..^=

From: mailto:
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:11 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [Richard III Society Forum] Name the Monkey

Boar-ing!

----------------------------------------------------------

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Suggestions duly noted, Nico.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

If not Dickie, then perhaps Ned (Edward IV and V). Could the monkey be female? Maggie (Margaret of Burgundy); Lizzie (EW); Jacquetta or some variation on Cicely (Cissie/Cis).

Nico

On Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 7:50, "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <> wrote:

I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You've finished the three books of the original 1970s publication? You stayed the course? <g> At the moment only the first book of the new trilogy is about out here, although not until September in the US. I've completed Book IV and am halfway through Book 5. I'll be interested to know if you approve of the new Cicely. She's rather different this time around... Sandra =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:55 PM To: Subject: RE: Name the Monkey

Oh, a not very original suggestion. It is certainly not boring!!!! I am just not as clever as the others who have suggested names!

By the way, hurry up and finish book IV, as I have completed the first three!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:52 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Not sure if that's a suggestion or an opinion, Pamela.

Sandra
=^..^=

From: mailto:
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:11 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Name the Monkey

Boar-ing!

----------------------------------------------------------

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Suggestions duly noted, Nico.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

If not Dickie, then perhaps Ned (Edward IV and V). Could the monkey be female? Maggie (Margaret of Burgundy); Lizzie (EW); Jacquetta or some variation on Cicely (Cissie/Cis).

Nico

On Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 7:50, "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <> wrote:

I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner.

Hi Sandra,
I am sorry I have no clever suggestion for a name for the monkey. But I wanted to tell you that
yesterday I got my copy of Cicely's Richard from amazon.de. It was hard for me not to forget everything
around me and loose myself completely in Cicely's and Richard's world the moment the postman had left.
Unfortunately there are other things to be done as well.
Eva

Sandra wrote :
"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

Thank you, Carol. My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel? Sandra =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM To: Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :
"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

What about "Tyrrell?"

Jess From: mailto:
Sent: 22/05/2014 19:44
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Thank you, Carol. My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel? Sandra =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM To: Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :
"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

Or maybe Malmsey, after poor Clarence's demise&&

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 1:45 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Thank you, Carol.

My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel?

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :

"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

I remember reading somewhere that when Prince Charles married Diana, she made a hash of all the names, and one of the family said something like my God, she has married our father! Talk about inbreeding, all of the generations prior to Diana's boys look the same to the untutored eye.

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Duly noted, Jess. This poor monkey may end up with a string of names, like the Windsors, and then be addresses as Oi, you!

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:01 PM

To:

Subject: RE: Re: Name the Monkey

What about "Tyrrell?"

Jess

From: mailto:
Sent: 22/05/2014 19:44
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Thank you, Carol.

My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel?

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :

"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

Or maybe Malmsey, after poor Clarence's demise&&

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 1:45 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Name the Monkey

Thank you, Carol.

My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel?

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :

"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

I remember reading somewhere that when Prince Charles married Diana, she made a hash of all the names, and one of the family said something like my God, she has married our father! Talk about inbreeding, all of the generations prior to Diana's boys look the same to the untutored eye.

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Name the Monkey

Duly noted, Jess. This poor monkey may end up with a string of names, like the Windsors, and then be addresses as Oi, you!

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:01 PM

To:

Subject: RE: Re: Name the Monkey

What about "Tyrrell?"

Jess

From: mailto:
Sent: 22/05/2014 19:44
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Thank you, Carol.

My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel?

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :

"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

All House of Hanover, eh, Pamela? =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:29 PM To: Subject: RE: Re: Name the Monkey

I remember reading somewhere that when Prince Charles married Diana, she made a hash of all the names, and one of the family said something like my God, she has married our father! Talk about inbreeding, all of the generations prior to Diana's boys look the same to the untutored eye.

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Duly noted, Jess. This poor monkey may end up with a string of names, like the Windsors, and then be addresses as Oi, you!

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:01 PM

To:

Subject: RE: Re: Name the Monkey

What about "Tyrrell?"

Jess

From: mailto:
Sent: 22/05/2014 19:44
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Name the Monkey

Thank you, Carol.

My version of Henry can't stand his wife, and she loathes him. The only member of the House of York for whom he has any time is his wife's sister, Cicely. The year is 1488, so Lambert is OK. Perkin hasn't come on to the scene yet. If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel?

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Name the Monkey

Sandra wrote :

"I'm writing the latest book in my Cicely Plantagenet series, in which Henry VII's pet monkey makes its appearance. But I'm stuck for a suitable name for the little darling. The monkey, that is, not Henry. I'll love to hear any (polite) suggestions. I'll love to hear them all, of course, but the name in the book has to be sly and clever (ironic, some people might say!) Not anachronistic either. I would love it to be one that has a go at the House of York. I mean, it's Henry's monkey, he's bound to find it amusing to call it something along the lines of Dickie. But I can't bring myself to that. Henry can't have his way. So please let me know your suggestions. A copy of Cicely's King Richard to the winner."

Carol responds:

A lot depends on what year it is and on how your version of Henry feels about his wife, assuming that the marriage has already taken place. (Would he respect her feelings about her relatives and avoid naming the monkey after them or ignore he sensibilities?) If it's after the Battle of Stoke and Lambert Simnel is safely in his charge as kitchen boy, you could name the monkey Lambert after a pretended relative. Or, if Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset, is in the Tower, you could name him Thomas or Dorset. I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have named the monkey after Perkin Warbeck until Perkin was safely dead. As for Richard, he might contemptuously name the monkey Gloucester, but I think more likely he preferred not to think about the man whose throne he stole and who came within feet of killing him. I'm also not at all sure that Henry had a sense of humor, ironic or otherwise. (Now if it were Sir Thomas More's monkey . . . . )

I'm assuming that the monkey is male. I don't think Henry consider EoY's female relatives sufficiently important to mock--with the exception of Margaret of Burgundy, and Maggie wouldn't work since his mother was also Margaret.

Carol

Don't know why, but I I can just hear Henry calling that monkey Urswyk.

Marie

Don't know why, but I I can just hear Henry calling that monkey Urswyk.

Marie

There were so many worthy entries to name Henry's monkey that it is a shame to announce a winner. Well, I feel there should be two winners really, because the suggestion of one person led directly to the winning suggestion of the other.

Joan Szechtman suggested Crimp or Crimpet, which are mediaeval nicknames. And from that, Janet Reedman added Crumlin or Crumplin, dialect words meaning little crooked one'. Then the latter name was confirmed by the gentleman from Sheriff Hutton, who said that Edward of Middleham's tomb used to be known locally as Little Crumplin', seemingly in a reference to him being the son of Richard III (Big Crump/lin?) So, Henry's monkey will be called Crumplin.

Because I feel that both Joan and Janet deserve to win, I intend to offer them both a copy of Cicely's King Richard. If either of them has already bought/ordered it, then I am happy to send them copies of the second book, Cicely's Second King, although I will not have any until mid-July or thereabouts. All I need now is address and choice of book. So if you will let me know, ladies...? And congratulations.

But thank you everyone for entering into the spirit of this. It was fun and we all had a giggle. I doubt if Henry will have another monkey any time soon, but if he does, I will be knocking at your doors again for inspiration.

Sandra

=^..^=

Sandra wrote :
"[snip] If it's OK with you, I'll add Lambert to the list. And/or Simnel?" Carol responds:

Sure. Glad you liked the suggestion.

By the way, I'm behind on posting as I was in Texas for the Memorial Day weekend and caught a nasty cold from someone on one of the planes. Still feel like my head is a balloon about to pop, but at least the sniffles are gone and the cough seems to be getting better.

Carol

Will it be made clear in your novel that Richard III wasn't "crooked" (aside from one shoulder higher than the other)? And I hope Richard's nieces (and mother, if she's present) resent the name!

Carol