Thomas Penn article from March 2012

Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-14 23:31:13
SandraMachin
Yet again I'm probably resurrecting something that has been chewed over many times, but it was new to me when I stumbled upon this. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/mar/02/tudors-henry-vii-wars-roses ....But Edward's death, and the usurpation of his teenage sons by their uncle Richard III, presented an opportunity to the man who would become Henry VII... ????? Usurpation? Teenaged? Sandra =^..^=

Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-15 12:56:38
Hi Sandra,
Thank you for posting this link. Apart from what you what you rightly question about Penn's acceptance of the
usurpation story, I found the article good in a sense, as it stresses the fact that a lot of Edward's and Richard's books were 'usurped' by Henry and subsequently seen as proof for the rise to high culture of the Tudor Court,
once the Yorkist age ended.
Regarding Penn, it rises some doubts about his forthcoming book on the York Brothers. I found his 'Winter
King' very readable and objective. But there was one sentence in it, that made my hackels rise:" As the poet Thomas Wyatt later recalled, his father, Henry VII's jewel-house keeper, had been racked on the orders of Richard III,who had sat and watched." I hope Penn has since read Anette Carson's article on that matter.
If he sticks to this in his new book, then, in my eyes, his standing as historian will be seriously impaired..
As a little antidote to this poisonous quote, one from David Santiuste in his 'Edward IV And The Wars Of The Roses': "It is my own view that Richard of Gloucester was a brave, charismatic and intelligent man, but his actions in 1483 defy easy analysis." Well I see now, that the subordinate close does not make me happy
either. But I still find it courageous for a historian to express such a positive opinion of Richard.
Eva

Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-15 13:20:46
SandraMachin
Hear, hear, Eva! Sandra =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:56 PM To: Subject: Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

Hi Sandra,
Thank you for posting this link. Apart from what you what you rightly question about Penn's acceptance of the
usurpation story, I found the article good in a sense, as it stresses the fact that a lot of Edward's and Richard's books were 'usurped' by Henry and subsequently seen as proof for the rise to high culture of the Tudor Court,
once the Yorkist age ended.
Regarding Penn, it rises some doubts about his forthcoming book on the York Brothers. I found his 'Winter
King' very readable and objective. But there was one sentence in it, that made my hackels rise:" As the poet Thomas Wyatt later recalled, his father, Henry VII's jewel-house keeper, had been racked on the orders of Richard III,who had sat and watched." I hope Penn has since read Anette Carson's article on that matter.
If he sticks to this in his new book, then, in my eyes, his standing as historian will be seriously impaired..
As a little antidote to this poisonous quote, one from David Santiuste in his 'Edward IV And The Wars Of The Roses': "It is my own view that Richard of Gloucester was a brave, charismatic and intelligent man, but his actions in 1483 defy easy analysis." Well I see now, that the subordinate close does not make me happy
either. But I still find it courageous for a historian to express such a positive opinion of Richard.
Eva

Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-15 13:36:44
Hi Sandra,
Thank you for posting this link. Apart from you rightly questioning Penn's odd ideas about Richard usurping
the throne,I found it good in a way. I have not, as yet, read any article, that stated so clearly how Henry
'usurped' various books from the royal library. These books belonged to Edward and Richard, and were a token of their taste, culture and learning. And not of the sudden rise of culture at the Tudor court, which was only made possible by the fall of the Yorkist regime.
Penn's remark on Richard does not bode well for his future book 'the Brothers York'.
Some time ago, I read his 'Winter King'. I thought it was interesting, very readable and objective then. There was however one sentence, that made my hackles rise. It read:" As the poet Sir Thomas Wyatt later recalled, his father, Henry VII's jewel-house keeper Henry Wyatt, had been racked on the orders of Richard III, who sat there and watched." I really hope that Penn has since read Anette Carson's article on Henry Wyatt and learned
about the difference between fact and fiction.
Eva

Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-15 13:56:11
Hi Sandra and All
I must apologize to you all. I thought my posting was lost. It had happened before that I pressed the wrong button. So sorry that I bothered you with a second version of the same subject!
Eva

Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-15 14:28:05
Pamela Bain
Not a problem......still true, if posted a million times!
On Jun 15, 2014, at 7:56 AM, "eva.pitter@... []" <> wrote:

Hi Sandra and All
I must apologize to you all. I thought my posting was lost. It had happened before that I pressed the wrong button. So sorry that I bothered you with a second version of the same subject!
Eva

Re: Thomas Penn article from March 2012

2014-06-16 09:54:12
Hilary Jones
Yes thanks Sandra, and (for your sending me your writing guide I'm just catching up). Trouble with Penn (and I liked his Winter King) is how he's going to overcome that big gap between the end of his research on the Brothers York and the beginning of his WK. It's actually quite crucial when you look at Richard because of the way some of the people who betrayed Richard behaved afterwards. And it's not just the Simnel and Warbeck plots, it's the fact that the early years of HT's reign did not bring the peace and enlightenment that we were taught at school, quite the opposite. But Henry lived and Richard didn't so the fable of the Tudor rescue was perpetuated. H
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