Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

Hi, Weds 

I think you probably know that I have been sympathetic to Leicester all along, but I think this is shameful! I can only suggest that the Looking for Richard Project seek out some way to make the truth known as prominently as the Visitor Centre exhibit, as much as possible. This should be featured in a website, perhaps called Not the Leicester Visitor Centre, or something like that.

It does seem to me that it seems like an act of desperation on the part of the University but only serves to them look petty and tacky. I don't think it will benefit them in the long run, as long as Annette Carson, Philippa Langley, JA-H, and the Society, among others, do their part to disseminate the truth.

Regarding the armor  what is the point of white plastic? If they can't afford to get a real suit of armor, surely the white could be painted to be more realistic.

But, really, the whole thing makes me grit my teeth!

Bah, humbug! L

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:23 PM
To:
Subject: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am deeply saddened by what Annette Carson has shared in the article below with all of us. Beyond that, in my bewilderment and sorrow, I don't understand why Leicester is betraying Richard and everyone else like this.

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

With the Richard III Visitor Centre opening this weekend, the Looking For Richard Project' team is saddened and profoundly disappointed by the exhibition. Insofar ...

View on www.annettecarso...

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Hi, Weds 

I think you probably know that I have been sympathetic to Leicester all along, but I think this is shameful! I can only suggest that the Looking for Richard Project seek out some way to make the truth known as prominently as the Visitor Centre exhibit, as much as possible. This should be featured in a website, perhaps called Not the Leicester Visitor Centre, or something like that.

It does seem to me that it seems like an act of desperation on the part of the University but only serves to them look petty and tacky. I don't think it will benefit them in the long run, as long as Annette Carson, Philippa Langley, JA-H, and the Society, among others, do their part to disseminate the truth.

Regarding the armor  what is the point of white plastic? If they can't afford to get a real suit of armor, surely the white could be painted to be more realistic.

But, really, the whole thing makes me grit my teeth!

Bah, humbug! L

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:23 PM
To:
Subject: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am deeply saddened by what Annette Carson has shared in the article below with all of us. Beyond that, in my bewilderment and sorrow, I don't understand why Leicester is betraying Richard and everyone else like this.

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

With the Richard III Visitor Centre opening this weekend, the Looking For Richard Project' team is saddened and profoundly disappointed by the exhibition. Insofar ...

View on www.annettecarso...

Preview by Yahoo

Wasn't it the Tudors who were the specialists at re-writing history?
Strangely, I am not at all appalled at the projection of an image of Richard's skeleton as it was found in the grave, but as for downgrading Phillipa and John's part in the finding of the body; they should be ashamed of themselves, and that star trooper should be consigned to the nearest rubbish bin.

Appalled,


Westcliff on sea From: Johanne Tournier jltournier60@... []
Sent: 27/07/2014 13:00
To:
Subject: RE: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

Hi, Weds 

I think you probably know that I have been sympathetic to Leicester all along, but I think this is shameful! I can only suggest that the Looking for Richard Project seek out some way to make the truth known as prominently as the Visitor Centre exhibit, as much as possible. This should be featured in a website, perhaps called Not the Leicester Visitor Centre, or something like that.

It does seem to me that it seems like an act of desperation on the part of the University but only serves to them look petty and tacky. I don't think it will benefit them in the long run, as long as Annette Carson, Philippa Langley, JA-H, and the Society, among others, do their part to disseminate the truth.

Regarding the armor  what is the point of white plastic? If they can't afford to get a real suit of armor, surely the white could be painted to be more realistic.

But, really, the whole thing makes me grit my teeth!

Bah, humbug! L

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:23 PM
To:
Subject: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am deeply saddened by what Annette Carson has shared in the article below with all of us. Beyond that, in my bewilderment and sorrow, I don't understand why Leicester is betraying Richard and everyone else like this.

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

With the Richard III Visitor Centre opening this weekend, the Looking For Richard Project' team is saddened and profoundly disappointed by the exhibition. Insofar ...

View on www.annettecarso...

Preview by Yahoo

Exhibitions are supposed to evolve. Is there any chance of the society getting its own room at the centre, so we can tell our side of the story in a coherent way?

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

I agree with you.It is shameful. And stupid too! If not for the Looking for Richard Team, there would be nothing to exhibit in Leicester at all. Did not the archeologists from ULAS doubt that they would ever succeed in
finding the body of a known individual? Were we not told archeology does not work that way?
I fear the visitor center will be a Chamber of Horror.
Eva

I think someone should go to Annette's blog and suggest that they start one of those petitions (you know, the ones that are only open to UK residents), to insist that the Visitor Centre correct their misinformation (and the armor).

Regarding the armor, is that the same guy that did an analysis of which weapons caused which wounds on Richard's body? I might be able to find his name with a bit of searching.

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:40 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

Wednesday wrote:

"I am deeply saddened by what Annette Carson has shared in the article below with all of us. Beyond that, in my bewilderment and sorrow, I don't understand why Leicester is betraying Richard and everyone else like this."

Carol responds:

Thank you for posting this article. I've tried to stay out of the Leicester vs. York debate, but this situation is deeply disturbing. I expect to be in Leicester week after next and plan to visit the center. Thank goodness, I'm forewarned! If I have the opportunity, I'll speak out, in particular against the Star Wars travesty. What's the name of the armor specialist who spoke about Richard's armor? He should protest in person and offer to provide them with historically accurate information. I'll take a copy of the article with me and, if possible, show it to the person in charge.

What a travesty in every respect.

Carol

Royal Armouries' curator Bob Woosnam-Savage is the man you are looking for, I think. Here is an article about him: http://www.royalarmouries.org/what-we-do/press/armouries-finds-king-in-the-car-park

Hope this helps!

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:45 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I think someone should go to Annette's blog and suggest that they start one of those petitions (you know, the ones that are only open to UK residents), to insist that the Visitor Centre correct their misinformation (and the armor).

Regarding the armor, is that the same guy that did an analysis of which weapons caused which wounds on Richard's body? I might be able to find his name with a bit of searching.

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:40 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

Wednesday wrote:

"I am deeply saddened by what Annette Carson has shared in the article below with all of us. Beyond that, in my bewilderment and sorrow, I don't understand why Leicester is betraying Richard and everyone else like this."

Carol responds:

Thank you for posting this article. I've tried to stay out of the Leicester vs. York debate, but this situation is deeply disturbing. I expect to be in Leicester week after next and plan to visit the center. Thank goodness, I'm forewarned! If I have the opportunity, I'll speak out, in particular against the Star Wars travesty. What's the name of the armor specialist who spoke about Richard's armor? He should protest in person and offer to provide them with historically accurate information. I'll take a copy of the article with me and, if possible, show it to the person in charge.

What a travesty in every respect.

Carol

"Royal Armouries' curator Bob Woosnam-Savage is the man you are looking for, I think. Here is an article about him: http://www.royalarmouries.org/what-we-do/press/armouries-finds-king-in-the-car-park

Hope this helps!"

"Royal Armouries' curator Bob Woosnam-Savage is the man you are looking for, I think. Here is an article about him: http://www.royalarmouries.org/what-we-do/press/armouries-finds-king-in-the-car-park

Hope this helps!"

"Royal Armouries' curator Bob Woosnam-Savage is the man you are looking for, I think. Here is an article about him: http://www.royalarmouries.org/what-we-do/press/armouries-finds-king-in-the-car-park

Hope this helps!"

I am intrigued by the number of people eager to condemn the whole of the Visitor Centre exhibition (which is not a museum and therefore will have different exhibits etc) without even setting foot in it. There are a number of complementary posts about the centre and its displays on a number of sites across the internet, yet on this forum we have had a whole string of posts from people offended by something they haven't seen. For example, many people have been keen to point out that the quote from the City of York has not been attributed and so claim Leicester is trying to pretend it relates to them, when in fact none of the quotes in that particular display have attributions on the display itself (perhaps for aesthetic reasons) but they are all listed and attributed on a wall plaque next to the display. From: "justcarol67@... []" <>
Karen wrote:

"Would this be Dr Tobias Capwell, Curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Museum? He gave the talk on Richard's armour - 8. Richard III Society: Leicester Conference - Grey Friars Dig: Adapting King Richard III's armour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sn9F0VHTjY"

Carol responds:

Yes, thank you. That's the man I had in mind to advise Leicester on what armor was really like in 1485. I imagine he'd be appalled by their display, or is already appalled if he has seen it. I hope he has done so and has offered his services. If not, I'll try to make a tactful suggestion to that effect if I have the opportunity.

Carol

Hi, Sandra and Pamela & Everyone 

Well, I admit that my opinion is influenced by the fact that I believe that Annette Carson is a reputable scholar who would not intentionally mislead us in her blog. And, no, I have not been to the Exhibit, so I am only going by what she has written. But I think it is very possible that the attribution you speak of is so minute and/or placed off to the side, away from the quotes, that it might as well not be there. (Yes, I agree that it would be helpful to have examples of what she is complaining of. We can see the example of the white plastic armor  does anyone doubt that it looks more like a Star Wars stormtrooper than King Richard's armour??)

BTW, Pamela, I don't believe the bloody throne was actually erected; the way I understand it from the blog, that was something that was only proposed. Still, it sounds hideous to me.

The issue with which I have the greatest problem and which I personally do not doubt is the failure to include the vital contributions of Philippa Langley, John Ashdown-Hill, the Looking for Richard Project, and the Richard III Society. Regardless of whether there was some specific guarantee in the contracts (I suspect there were some assurances that PL and the Society felt were sufficient at the time), there is no excuse for distorting the record. As I wrote earlier, in my view that leaves the City, ULAS and the University by implication looking petty and tacky. It is true that ULAS, led by Richard Buckley doubted that the search would be successful. He accepted the task only because he felt it was an opportunity to learn more about the Greyfriars. Which is fine, except that the credit for the determination to undertake and continue the search rests with PL, not with Dr. Buckley and ULAS. Again, the University did not initiate the genealogical research into Richard's family tree. The most difficult and tedious and expensive portion was undertaken at his own expense by JA-H and ULAS and the University benefitted. So I think they owe it to the public and posterity to give credit where credit is due.

OK, now I'll get off my soapbox! J

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 3:28 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

You're right, Pamela. We can't really, beyond-all-shadow-of-doubt make any claims about the Visitor Centre unless we've been there and have the evidence of our own eyes, not someone else's. If York City Records are mentioned after all, there may be other things that aren't quite what they appear according to blogs or isolated photographs. I'm not saying the armour isn't white or the throne doesn't have blood around it, just that things should be seen in context. The folk in Leicester have put in a lot of time, planning, effort and dedication into the Visitors' Centre and its displays, and they deserve due credit, not be condemned from a distance.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 5:53 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am intrigued by the number of people eager to condemn the whole of the Visitor Centre exhibition (which is not a museum and therefore will have different exhibits etc) without even setting foot in it. There are a number of complementary posts about the centre and its displays on a number of sites across the internet, yet on this forum we have had a whole string of posts from people offended by something they haven't seen. For example, many people have been keen to point out that the quote from the City of York has not been attributed and so claim Leicester is trying to pretend it relates to them, when in fact none of the quotes in that particular display have attributions on the display itself (perhaps for aesthetic reasons) but they are all listed and attributed on a wall plaque next to the display.

From: "justcarol67@... []" <>

Karen wrote:

"Would this be Dr Tobias Capwell, Curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Museum? He gave the talk on Richard's armour - 8. Richard III Society: Leicester Conference - Grey Friars Dig: Adapting King Richard III's armour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sn9F0VHTjY"

Carol responds:

Yes, thank you. That's the man I had in mind to advise Leicester on what armor was really like in 1485. I imagine he'd be appalled by their display, or is already appalled if he has seen it. I hope he has done so and has offered his services. If not, I'll try to make a tactful suggestion to that effect if I have the opportunity.

Carol

Hi, Sandra and Pamela & Everyone 

Well, I admit that my opinion is influenced by the fact that I believe that Annette Carson is a reputable scholar who would not intentionally mislead us in her blog. And, no, I have not been to the Exhibit, so I am only going by what she has written. But I think it is very possible that the attribution you speak of is so minute and/or placed off to the side, away from the quotes, that it might as well not be there. (Yes, I agree that it would be helpful to have examples of what she is complaining of. We can see the example of the white plastic armor  does anyone doubt that it looks more like a Star Wars stormtrooper than King Richard's armour??)

BTW, Pamela, I don't believe the bloody throne was actually erected; the way I understand it from the blog, that was something that was only proposed. Still, it sounds hideous to me.

The issue with which I have the greatest problem and which I personally do not doubt is the failure to include the vital contributions of Philippa Langley, John Ashdown-Hill, the Looking for Richard Project, and the Richard III Society. Regardless of whether there was some specific guarantee in the contracts (I suspect there were some assurances that PL and the Society felt were sufficient at the time), there is no excuse for distorting the record. As I wrote earlier, in my view that leaves the City, ULAS and the University by implication looking petty and tacky. It is true that ULAS, led by Richard Buckley doubted that the search would be successful. He accepted the task only because he felt it was an opportunity to learn more about the Greyfriars. Which is fine, except that the credit for the determination to undertake and continue the search rests with PL, not with Dr. Buckley and ULAS. Again, the University did not initiate the genealogical research into Richard's family tree. The most difficult and tedious and expensive portion was undertaken at his own expense by JA-H and ULAS and the University benefitted. So I think they owe it to the public and posterity to give credit where credit is due.

OK, now I'll get off my soapbox! J

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 3:28 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

You're right, Pamela. We can't really, beyond-all-shadow-of-doubt make any claims about the Visitor Centre unless we've been there and have the evidence of our own eyes, not someone else's. If York City Records are mentioned after all, there may be other things that aren't quite what they appear according to blogs or isolated photographs. I'm not saying the armour isn't white or the throne doesn't have blood around it, just that things should be seen in context. The folk in Leicester have put in a lot of time, planning, effort and dedication into the Visitors' Centre and its displays, and they deserve due credit, not be condemned from a distance.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 5:53 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am intrigued by the number of people eager to condemn the whole of the Visitor Centre exhibition (which is not a museum and therefore will have different exhibits etc) without even setting foot in it. There are a number of complementary posts about the centre and its displays on a number of sites across the internet, yet on this forum we have had a whole string of posts from people offended by something they haven't seen. For example, many people have been keen to point out that the quote from the City of York has not been attributed and so claim Leicester is trying to pretend it relates to them, when in fact none of the quotes in that particular display have attributions on the display itself (perhaps for aesthetic reasons) but they are all listed and attributed on a wall plaque next to the display.

From: "justcarol67@... []" <>

Karen wrote:

"Would this be Dr Tobias Capwell, Curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Museum? He gave the talk on Richard's armour - 8. Richard III Society: Leicester Conference - Grey Friars Dig: Adapting King Richard III's armour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sn9F0VHTjY"

Carol responds:

Yes, thank you. That's the man I had in mind to advise Leicester on what armor was really like in 1485. I imagine he'd be appalled by their display, or is already appalled if he has seen it. I hope he has done so and has offered his services. If not, I'll try to make a tactful suggestion to that effect if I have the opportunity.

Carol

[The entire original message is not included.]

Hi, Sandra & Pamela (again) 

But this is not a public site (or not ordinarily public). You should well know by now, as I have expressed on numerous occasions, that I have wanted Richard's body to remain in Leicester, with due consideration and dignity given to the reinterment of his remains. At the same time, if issues have been raised, this is a fair forum in which to discuss them. It is not reasonable, in my view, to say that one shouldn't bring something up because someone on some other venue may come across as shrill or unreasoning. There has to be someplace in which we who do care can discuss such matters, as adults. I agree that many of the sentiments expressed over the last year have not persuaded me of their rationality. At the same time I don't think one should seemingly put a stop to all discussion by saying It will look like we are a fan club. This is a discussion list and not a peer-reviewed scholarly journal, after all, so it has to be a forum for informal discussion of anything relating to Richard III as well as some considerations that are more serious in nature.

I hope the Exhibit ends up being a wonderful educational tool for Richard and his times. But if one gets information from a usually reliable source that suggests that the curators are open to criticism, I think criticizing is fair ball. If we don't bring up and discuss what we have heard, how will we know if there is an something to be said on the other side? Perhaps it may result in some action being taken which will result in improvements all around. I think it is fair to criticize the tone of the exhibit, possible failure to maintain a level of scholarly accuracy and omitting to give credit where credit is due for the success of the enterprise. And I think it will be possible to aim for the historical truth, as it is understood, and still be dramatic and have popular appeal. Yes, I think it would be better if someone had seen the exhibit but for some of us that is unfortunately not possible at this time.

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 12:52 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

Pamela wrote:

I was disappointed to see on the Visitor Centre Review site a lot of extremely negative comments from people who have not visited the exhibition but who are using their reviews as a means to promote a York reburial. The image of Ricardians that the general public get of by such actions will do nothing to help our quest for a proper re-evaluation of Richard's life and times. All this squabbling and the verbal spats posted all over the Internet will only reinforce the idea that Ricardians are some sort of 'fan club' and not a serious historical society and may even have the effect of turning people away from learning more about Richard.

Sandra adds:

This is my fear too, Pamela. Unflattering conclusions will be drawn by these activities.

From: "Johanne Tournier wrote:

Hi, Sandra and Pamela & Everyone 

Well, I admit that my opinion is influenced by the fact that I believe that Annette Carson is a reputable scholar who would not intentionally mislead us in her blog. And, no, I have not been to the Exhibit, so I am only going by what she has written. But I think it is very possible that the attribution you speak of is so minute and/or placed off to the side, away from the quotes, that it might as well not be there. (Yes, I agree that it would be helpful to have examples of what she is complaining of. We can see the example of the white plastic armor  does anyone doubt that it looks more like a Star Wars stormtrooper than King Richard's armour??)

BTW, Pamela, I don't believe the bloody throne was actually erected; the way I understand it from the blog, that was something that was only proposed. Still, it sounds hideous to me.

The issue with which I have the greatest problem and which I personally do not doubt is the failure to include the vital contributions of Philippa Langley, John Ashdown-Hill, the Looking for Richard Project, and the Richard III Society. Regardless of whether there was some specific guarantee in the contracts (I suspect there were some assurances that PL and the Society felt were sufficient at the time), there is no excuse for distorting the record. As I wrote earlier, in my view that leaves the City, ULAS and the University by implication looking petty and tacky. It is true that ULAS, led by Richard Buckley doubted that the search would be successful. He accepted the task only because he felt it was an opportunity to learn more about the Greyfriars. Which is fine, except that the credit for the determination to undertake and continue the search rests with PL, not with Dr. Buckley and ULAS. Again, the University did not initiate the genealogical research into Richard's family tree. The most difficult and tedious and expensive portion was undertaken at his own expense by JA-H and ULAS and the University benefitted. So I think they owe it to the public and posterity to give credit where credit is due.

OK, now I'll get off my soapbox! J

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 3:28 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

You're right, Pamela. We can't really, beyond-all-shadow-of-doubt make any claims about the Visitor Centre unless we've been there and have the evidence of our own eyes, not someone else's. If York City Records are mentioned after all, there may be other things that aren't quite what they appear according to blogs or isolated photographs. I'm not saying the armour isn't white or the throne doesn't have blood around it, just that things should be seen in context. The folk in Leicester have put in a lot of time, planning, effort and dedication into the Visitors' Centre and its displays, and they deserve due credit, not be condemned from a distance.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 5:53 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am intrigued by the number of people eager to condemn the whole of the Visitor Centre exhibition (which is not a museum and therefore will have different exhibits etc) without even setting foot in it. There are a number of complementary posts about the centre and its displays on a number of sites across the internet, yet on this forum we have had a whole string of posts from people offended by something they haven't seen. For example, many people have been keen to point out that the quote from the City of York has not been attributed and so claim Leicester is trying to pretend it relates to them, when in fact none of the quotes in that particular display have attributions on the display itself (perhaps for aesthetic reasons) but they are all listed and attributed on a wall plaque next to the display.

From: "mailto:justcarol67@...%20[]" <>

Karen wrote:

"Would this be Dr Tobias Capwell, Curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Museum? He gave the talk on Richard's armour - 8. Richard III Society: Leicester Conference - Grey Friars Dig: Adapting King Richard III's armour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sn9F0VHTjY"

Carol responds:

Yes, thank you. That's the man I had in mind to advise Leicester on what armor was really like in 1485. I imagine he'd be appalled by their display, or is already appalled if he has seen it. I hope he has done so and has offered his services. If not, I'll try to make a tactful suggestion to that effect if I have the opportunity.

Carol

Hi, Weds –

I think you probably know that I have been sympathetic to Leicester all along, but I think this is shameful! I can only suggest that the Looking for Richard Project seek out some way to make the truth known as prominently as the Visitor Centre exhibit, as much as possible. This should be featured in a website, perhaps called “Not the Leicester Visitor Centre,” or something like that.

It does seem to me that it seems like an act of desperation on the part of the University but only serves to them look petty and tacky. I don’t think it will benefit them in the long run, as long as Annette Carson, Philippa Langley, JA-H, and the Society, among others, do their part to disseminate the truth.

Regarding the armor – what is the point of white plastic? If they can’t afford to get a real suit of armor, surely the white could be painted to be more realistic.

But, really, the whole thing makes me grit my teeth!

Bah, humbug! L

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:23 PM
To:
Subject: Annette Carson - Commentary Regarding the R3 Visitors Centre

I am deeply saddened by what Annette Carson has shared in the article below with all of us. Beyond that, in my bewilderment and sorrow, I don't understand why Leicester is betraying Richard and everyone else like this.

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

Richard III Visitor Centre, Leicester

With the Richard III Visitor Centre opening this weekend, the ‘Looking For Richard Project’ team is saddened and profoundly disappointed by the exhibition. Insofar ...

View on www.annettecarso...

Preview by Yahoo