Who is Anne Hopper?

Just heard this lady's name for the first time. What is the story?

Anne Hopper was alleged to have been an illegitimate daughter of Richard III, although he never formally recognized her. It is claimed by her descendants that he made private financial arrangements with her mother for her care, and gave her a ring which was passed down through the family. The story can be found at the end of David Baldwin's book Lost Prince: The Survival of Richard of York.
Nico


On Friday, 12 September 2014, 21:12, "billieholt1971@... []" <> wrote:



Just heard this lady's name for the first time. What is the story?

Does Baldwin also hint at a possible conception date on hand of the descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't have that paper, thank you for your reply

mac.thirty@...: Does Baldwin also hint at a possible conception date on hand of the descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't have that paper, thank you for your reply
I can't remember exactly, but there was some connection to Scottish campaign. I think Baldwin said the mother was either from Scotland or the border area. So the dates would most likely be late 1470s to early 1480s.
Nico


On Sunday, 14 September 2014, 11:51, "mac.thirty@... []" <> wrote:


Does Baldwin also hint at a possible conception date on hand of the descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't have that paper, thank you for your reply

Here is a link to the pages in the book about the Hopper ring, where Baldwin estimates that Anne Hopper may have been born in the early 1480s:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=C2g7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT145&lpg=PT145&dq=the+hopper+ring+richard+iii&source=bl&ots=9u89VocPS1&sig=TgaUaVg2J
Nico


On Sunday, 14 September 2014, 19:58, "Nicholas Brown nico11238@... []" <> wrote:



mac.thirty@...: Does Baldwin also hint at a possible conception date on hand of the descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't have that paper, thank you for your reply
I can't remember exactly, but there was some connection to Scottish campaign. I think Baldwin said the mother was either from Scotland or the border area. So the dates would most likely be late 1470s to early 1480s.
Nico


On Sunday, 14 September 2014, 11:51, "mac.thirty@... []" <> wrote:


Does Baldwin also hint at a possible conception date on hand of the descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't have that paper, thank you for your reply

That link is not working for me.....Eileen

Got it! thank you Nico....Eileen

Thank you Nico, I'll try the link once I get to my pc.

Hi Nico,

I can't open the link either. Would you mind re-sending?

Ta.
Billie
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/14/14, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: Who is Anne Hopper?
To: "" <>
Date: Sunday, September 14, 2014, 10:18 PM


 









Here is a link to the pages in
the book about the Hopper ring, where Baldwin estimates that
Anne Hopper may have been born in the early
1480s:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=C2g7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT145&lpg=PT145&dq=the+hopper+ring+richard+iii&source=bl&ots=9u89VocPS1&sig=TgaUaVg2J
Nico



On Sunday, 14 September 2014, 19:58,
"Nicholas Brown nico11238@...
[]"
<> wrote:



 










mac.thirty@...:  Does Baldwin also
hint at a possible conception date on hand of the
descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't
have that paper, thank
you for your reply
I
can't remember exactly, but there was some connection to
Scottish campaign.  I think Baldwin said the mother was
either from Scotland or the border area.  So the dates
would most likely be late 1470s to early 1480s.
Nico


On Sunday,
14 September 2014, 11:51, "mac.thirty@...
[]"
<> wrote:



 









Does Baldwin also hint
at a possible conception date on hand of the
descendants' allegations? Unfortunately. I don't
have that paper, thank you for your reply

































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It only works from an email client software like Outlook, it did not work for me until I downloaded the email

Here is the link again.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=C2g7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT145&lpg=PT145&dq=the+hopper+ring+richard+iii&source=bl&ots=9u89VocPS1&sig=TgaUaVg2J
Does it still not work even after you paste it into the browser, or highlight and click 'open link.'? If not you could just put in 'Richard III, Hopper Ring' into google and it should come up.
Nico




On Monday, 15 September 2014, 19:52, "mac.thirty@... []" <> wrote:


It only works from an email client software like Outlook, it did not work for me until I downloaded the email

Nico wrote :

"Does it still not work even after you paste it into the browser, or highlight and click 'open link.'? If not you could just put in 'Richard III, Hopper Ring' into google and it should come up."
Carol responds:

Cutting and pasting takes you to a blank page in Baldwin's book, but I found the Anne Hopper story by typing her name in the search box.

The whole story strikes me as improbable given Richard's known character (and the lack of opportunities he would have for a liaison while on campaign), not to mention that if he had really ridden around openly with a mistress, word would have gotten around and his enemies would have reported it later.

What strikes me as interesting is the connection with his niece Anne de la Pole, daughter of his sister Elizabeth and the Duke of Suffolk and sister of his loyal supporter, John, Earl of Lincoln. Richard, who intended to marry her to the son of the Scottish king (IIRC), could have given her the ring as a wedding present. That marriage never took place, of course, but what if, rather than becoming a nun as is commonly reported, Anne de la Pole married someone named Hopper after Richard's death (to hide from the Tudors?) and the story that Richard III gave her the ring somehow got distorted into a love affair? There would still be a grain of truth in it and it would fit better with Richard's piety and known faithfulness to his wife. (Given his anti-Richard sources an his own assumptions about Richard's [supposed] ambition and ruthlessness, Mancini would not have written that nothing is known against Richard's private life if it weren't true.)

Yes, I know I'm speculating, but the whole Hopper story is speculation.

Carol

I'm also sceptical about this story. However, I find the link with Anne de la Pole an interesting possiblity. If she married someone called Hopper, and he was of a lower social class than her; she could have faded into obscurity, and it might be assumed that she became a nun. It is so often difficult to ascertain exactly how many children medieval people had and exactly what happened to all of them.

Nico


On Monday, 22 September 2014, 0:47, "justcarol67@... []" <> wrote:


Nico wrote :

"Does it still not work even after you paste it into the browser, or highlight and click 'open link.'? If not you could just put in 'Richard III, Hopper Ring' into google and it should come up."
Carol responds:

Cutting and pasting takes you to a blank page in Baldwin's book, but I found the Anne Hopper story by typing her name in the search box.

The whole story strikes me as improbable given Richard's known character (and the lack of opportunities he would have for a liaison while on campaign), not to mention that if he had really ridden around openly with a mistress, word would have gotten around and his enemies would have reported it later.

What strikes me as interesting is the connection with his niece Anne de la Pole, daughter of his sister Elizabeth and the Duke of Suffolk and sister of his loyal supporter, John, Earl of Lincoln. Richard, who intended to marry her to the son of the Scottish king (IIRC), could have given her the ring as a wedding present. That marriage never took place, of course, but what if, rather than becoming a nun as is commonly reported, Anne de la Pole married someone named Hopper after Richard's death (to hide from the Tudors?) and the story that Richard III gave her the ring somehow got distorted into a love affair? There would still be a grain of truth in it and it would fit better with Richard's piety and known faithfulness to his wife. (Given his anti-Richard sources an his own assumptions about Richard's [supposed] ambition and ruthlessness, Mancini would not have written that nothing is known against Richard's private life if it weren't true.)

Yes, I know I'm speculating, but the whole Hopper story is speculation.

Carol

Mac wrote:

"Carol, your speculation on Anne de La Pole makes more sense to me than Richard not acknowledging a child when he had acknowledged 2 already, with Edward to give an example and at a time when fathering illegitimate children on the part of lords who often married for interest was not considered something out of the ordinary nor something to hide. Same considerations are also valid for the 200 years late speculation of "Richard Plantagenet" being Richard's illegitimate child. Cheers. Mac"

Carol responds:

Thanks, Mac. I wish there were some way to investigate this possibility more thoroughly. I hate the way new legends sprout from the smallest bit of evidence with the rumor spreaders ignoring what is known of Richard's character--in this case, his kind and generous treatment of his wife, his words (to EW) about husbands loving their wives, his reputation for faithfulness to his wife (nothing known against his private life, as reported by the hostile Mancini), and his acknowledgment of his two known illegitimate children, not to mention his very genuine piety).

Carol