Book Exploring How Medieval Kings Ruled?

Sandra pointed out (I think on Facebook?) that the Tydder came to the
throne without any knowledge of how to be a king...which made me
wonder...how did kings learn to be kings?

Does anyone know of a book out there (preferably 19th century or so,
which might be available for free download online) outlining how a
late medieval king ruled. The day-to-day decisions he'd have made,
what he would have delegated and such?

Was there a "Babees Book" for kings?

I don't think there was a "Babee's Booke for Kynges", but little royal sprouts typically blossomed alongside their cautiously-loving paters and learned by observation and experience, as well as rivalry against said cautiously-loving paters.  In a perfect world, as the sprouts attained proper growth, they'd take part in the parliaments/cortes/whathaveyous; assist in various battles, and eventually either say "Hey, I can do this better than dad", or lament, like Louis XVI, when the time came, that he was too young.
Alternatively, you could learn how to rule from the outside in, like Richard of York/Edward IV/Richard III, or Isabel the Catholic.  It helped to be in spitting distance, by blood or otherwise, to the center of the political action.  Henry Tudor wasn't really in that position - Mama was closer to the center of political action than he was.  But Henry brought in a scarily-acute survival instinct honed by his years of exile, very little sentimentality or sensitivity, and (unfortunately for us) a very sharp set of brains.  It proved to work for him.
Mariaejbronte@...
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Wednesday Mac wednesday.mac@... [] <> wrote:
 

Sandra pointed out (I think on Facebook?) that the Tydder came to the
throne without any knowledge of how to be a king...which made me
wonder...how did kings learn to be kings?

Does anyone know of a book out there (preferably 19th century or so,
which might be available for free download online) outlining how a
late medieval king ruled. The day-to-day decisions he'd have made,
what he would have delegated and such?

Was there a "Babees Book" for kings?

I can't remember my exact words, Weds, but I'd read somewhere that when Henry came to the throne he had virtually zilch knowledge of royal courts. The only royal court he'd been to, briefly, was that of France, and so he had to rely on his mother and wife to guide him. Perhaps he did not like being reliant on anyone, even them. Thinking back, I believe it was suggested that this lack of knowledge/experience that might have made him the way he was, i.e. withdrawn, suspicious, guarded, etc., because he was always trying not to look a fool in front of his nobles. This is what I read, not something I put forward as my notion. It was simply an interesting statement elsewhere. Sandra =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:37 AM To: Subject: Book Exploring How Medieval Kings Ruled?

Sandra pointed out (I think on Facebook?) that the Tydder came to the
throne without any knowledge of how to be a king...which made me
wonder...how did kings learn to be kings?

Does anyone know of a book out there (preferably 19th century or so,
which might be available for free download online) outlining how a
late medieval king ruled. The day-to-day decisions he'd have made,
what he would have delegated and such?

Was there a "Babees Book" for kings?

I wonder if this lack of knowledge WRT how Kings were supposed to behave is one reason why Henry felt compelled to make so many changes as to how English kings went about their daily lives. Is it true, by the way, that Henry was the first English king to have a body guard specifically tasked with and for his own protection, as opposed to the body servants who did various services such as fetching wine, et cetera? Tamara

I believe Henry was the first, Tamara, but don't know for sure. Being Henry, and so super-suspicious about everyone, do you think he secretly employed guards to watch the bodyguards? And guards to watch the guards to watch the bodyguards? I'm prepared to believe it. I could almost feel sorry for him. Almost. Sandra =^..^= From: mailto: Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:49 PM To: Subject: Re: Book Exploring How Medieval Kings Ruled?

I wonder if this lack of knowledge WRT how Kings were supposed to behave is one reason why Henry felt compelled to make so many changes as to how English kings went about their daily lives. Is it true, by the way, that Henry was the first English king to have a body guard specifically tasked with and for his own protection, as opposed to the body servants who did various services such as fetching wine, et cetera? Tamara

Was his mother his tutor. To lean to be a King, or did he just make it up as he went along???

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 7:03 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Book Exploring How Medieval Kings Ruled?

I believe Henry was the first, Tamara, but don't know for sure. Being Henry, and so super-suspicious about everyone, do you think he secretly employed guards to watch the bodyguards? And guards to watch the guards to watch the bodyguards? I'm prepared to believe it. I could almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

Sandra

=^..^=

From: mailto:

Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:49 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Book Exploring How Medieval Kings Ruled?

I wonder if this lack of knowledge WRT how Kings were supposed to behave is one reason why Henry felt compelled to make so many changes as to how English kings went about their daily lives. Is it true, by the way, that Henry was the first English king to have a body guard specifically tasked with and for his own protection, as opposed to the body servants who did various services such as fetching wine, et cetera? Tamara

On Edward V you need to read Wilkinson the 'Princes in the Tower'. Edward followed a very strict regime laid down by his father - 'every aspect of the prince's life was regulated in minute detail'. In a very brief summary each day consisted of matins and mass with religious discourses. dinner when he would listen to 'such noble stories as behoveth to a prince to understand and know'. Then followed learning probably grammar, Latin and French then games fitting his station, then evensong and then 'honest disports' until bedtime at 8pm. There's a lot more as well. For Henry VIII read Starkey 'Henry Virtuous Prince' and see how this was extended even more because of the influence of people like More and Erasmus. Of course the manual by then was Machiavelli 'The Prince'. So learning (even at the time of the Yorks and before) held equal standing with wargames. Hope this helps. H

Henry was the first. He created the Yeoman Warders to guard his royal person.

He also encouraged informers at all levels, so the nobility was paranoid about one another as well. You would also be summoned to appear before one of his officers at X time and X date, but you wouldn't know for what. You only knew it was going to be bad. He's the king who began twisting the Star Chamber into something hideous as well. He also did things like disbelieve officers (say, from the garrison at Calais) who tried to help him by giving him advance information on problematic situations/people -- and then he punished them.

Reading *The Winter King" by Thomas Penn was a real eye-opener for me. He put men in position who understood exactly how he wanted to hurt and bleed his subjects, and those men were only too happy to oblige. And they traded Richard for this thing? You really have to read the book to get an idea of just how uncompassionate and greedy he really was. "All for one and more for me" pretty much covers it.

~Mac

---In , <sandramachin@...> wrote :

I believe Henry was the first, Tamara, but don't know for sure. Being Henry, and so super-suspicious about everyone, do you think he secretly employed guards to watch the bodyguards? And guards to watch the guards to watch the bodyguards? I'm prepared to believe it. I could almost feel sorry for him. Almost. Sandra=^..^= From: mailto:Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:49 PMTo: Subject: Re: Book Exploring How Medieval Kings Ruled?

I wonder if this lack of knowledge WRT how Kings were supposed to behave is one reason why Henry felt compelled to make so many changes as to how English kings went about their daily lives. Is it true, by the way, that Henry was the first English king to have a body guard specifically tasked with and for his own protection, as opposed to the body servants who did various services such as fetching wine, et cetera? Tamara

I just found a book called *The Household of Edward IV* which looks promising. I think Wilkenson may have used it as a reference.

Most of it is on Google Books here, for viewing only:
The Household of Edward Iv

The Household of Edward Iv 0 ReviewsWrite reviewhttp://books.google.com/books/about/The_Household_of_Edward_Iv.html?id... View on books.google.com Preview by Yahoo

I just found the 18th century edition of this book available (full text) for free download in multiple formats (as opposed to a 1959 edition that's over $300 used). I love that Richard has been found. The fact that scholarly books based on and peripheral to his life have skyrocketed, never to return to earth...not so much.

Anyway...here it is if anyone would like to download this moldy, useful tome. It covers the Tudor period and beyond as well.

A collection of ordinances and regulations for the government of the royal household, made in divers reigns : from King Edward III to King William and Queen Mary, also receipts in ancient cookery (1790)

A collection of ordinances and regulations for the government of the royal household, made in divers reigns : from King Edward III to King William and Queen Mary, also receipts in ancient cookery : Society of Antiquaries of London : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive A collection of ordinances and regulations for the gover... Page numbers 169 and 170 are repeated View on archive.org Preview by Yahoo

That 1959 book is very useful, by the way - for Myers' commentary as well. (Or at least that's what I try to tell myself to justify why I paid 170 pounds for that thing!)
Does the 18th-century version include the Black Book manuscript as well? I'd check myself but my browser seems incapable of opening the file.
Pansy

---In , <[email protected]> wrote :

That 1959 book is very useful, by the way - for Myers' commentary as well. (Or at least that's what I try to tell myself to justify why I paid 170 pounds for that thing!)
Does the 18th-century version include the Black Book manuscript as well? I'd check myself but my browser seems incapable of opening the file.
Pansy


Weds writes:
I can't justify $200-$300 for it, so once again interlibrary loan is my friend.

The Black Book is there, but it's typeset.

The book is over 500 pages long, so that may be why your browser can't open it. You should be able to download it if you click on PDF. If you want me to upload a version to copy.com so you can download it from there, let me know.

Did Henry do anything else, but squeeze his subjects dry? You wouldn't have known it from this book. I certainly didn't learn much else from it.
Gilda


On Sep 24, 2014, at 12:16 PM, wednesday.mac@... [] wrote:

Reading *The Winter King" by Thomas Penn was a real eye-opener for me. He put men in position who understood exactly how he wanted to hurt and bleed his subjects, and those men were only too happy to oblige. And they traded Richard for this thing? You really have to read the book to get an idea of just how uncompassionate and greedy he really was. "All for one and more for me" pretty much covers it.

~Mac