Practicalities for Reinterment Week

Jan here.I have discovered that it is possible to reach Dadlington from Leicester Haymarket bus station by getting the 158 to Hinkley & then the 6 to Dadlington. It takes anything from 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 50 minutes. This is going by a December timetable. Assuming the rural bus services are not abolished by March due to financial constraints I can now go to Leicester in March without a car. I hadn't planned to visit any other villages during the week of the king's reinterment.Has anybody else any tips to pass on?

Warning, there is a walk at Hinkley between the place where the bus
from Leicester stops, and the one to Dadlington leaves. There can
also be a wait of up to 90 minutes between the two.
Paul

On 04/12/2014 20:08,
janmulrenan@... [] wrote:
Jan here.
I have discovered that it is possible to reach Dadlington
from Leicester Haymarket bus station by getting the 158 to
Hinkley & then the 6 to Dadlington.  It takes anything
from 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 50 minutes.  This is going by
a December timetable.  Assuming the rural bus services are not
abolished by March due to financial constraints I can now go
to Leicester in March without a car.  I hadn't planned to
visit any other villages during the week of the king's
reinterment.
Has anybody else any tips to pass on?

Thank you, Paul. I must take something to read!Jan.Sent from my iPad On 5 Dec 2014, at 10:54, Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... [] <> wrote:

Warning, there is a walk at Hinkley between the place where the bus
from Leicester stops, and the one to Dadlington leaves. There can
also be a wait of up to 90 minutes between the two.
Paul

On 04/12/2014 20:08,
janmulrenan@... [] wrote:
Jan here.
I have discovered that it is possible to reach Dadlington
from Leicester Haymarket bus station by getting the 158 to
Hinkley & then the 6 to Dadlington. It takes anything
from 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 50 minutes. This is going by
a December timetable. Assuming the rural bus services are not
abolished by March due to financial constraints I can now go
to Leicester in March without a car. I hadn't planned to
visit any other villages during the week of the king's
reinterment.
Has anybody else any tips to pass on?

All
the posts about using fair to describe Edward IV (and others) recalled that
the word has other meanings; equitable, for example. But there's also the
meaning that appears in My Fair Lady, which I presume means, not blonde, but
rather gracious and/or pleasing to the eye. The same applies, of course, to
golden, which can refer to something made of that metal, the color of the
metal applied to other objects, or used a superlative to describe a person or
period of time.
I
don't know if the various meanings of those two words have
changed over the years, but I do know that, at different times, one meaning
predominates over the other; especially in general usage.
Could
something such as that be what's occurred in these instances? Fair being used
in the My Fair Lady sense, rather than meaning light-colored hair? And
golden used to describe someone without meaning any reference to that person's
complexion or hair-color? Are the contexts in which fair and golden are used
descriptively amenable to a definition other than one referring to
complexion/hair?
Just
a thought,
Doug

Here's the Oxford English Dictionary on the word "Fair" meaning "noble":http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/67706?rskey=jNpWsC&result=4#eidGoes back nicely far, and would definitely be current in the fifteenth century with that understanding.However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey.  Probably, up until recently, in popular images of Richard, dark coloring next to fair coloring was incidental to the other, more damning visual cues. On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:35 AM, 'Doug Stamate' destama@... [] <> wrote:
 


All
the posts about using fair to describe Edward IV (and others) recalled that
the word has other meanings; equitable, for example. But there's also the
meaning that appears in My Fair Lady, which I presume means, not blonde, but
rather gracious and/or pleasing to the eye. The same applies, of course, to
golden, which can refer to something made of that metal, the color of the
metal applied to other objects, or used a superlative to describe a person or
period of time.
I
don't know if the various meanings of those two words have
changed over the years, but I do know that, at different times, one meaning
predominates over the other; especially in general usage.
Could
something such as that be what's occurred in these instances? Fair being used
in the My Fair Lady sense, rather than meaning light-colored hair? And
golden used to describe someone without meaning any reference to that person's
complexion or hair-color? Are the contexts in which fair and golden are used
descriptively amenable to a definition other than one referring to
complexion/hair?
Just
a thought,
Doug
 

Maria
wrote:
Here's
the Oxford English Dictionary on the word "Fair" meaning "noble":
http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/67706?rskey=jNpWsC&result=4#eid

Goes back
nicely far, and would definitely be current in the fifteenth century with that
understanding.
Doug here:
Thank you! Well, that provides
support for a possible reading of fair as noble rather than
light-complexioned, but I don't know if it closes the question. Because it
also occurred to me that we'd also have to consider just where
the term/s was/were seen. If it came from diplomatic correspondence, then most
likely it's a translation from Latin, Italian, French, Spanish, or German, so \a
check would have to be made to see if the translation was chronologically
correct.
Oi!
Maria concluded:

However, I
believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family"
is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine
Tey. Probably, up until recently, in popular images of Richard, dark
coloring next to fair coloring was incidental to the other, more damning visual
cues.
Doug here:
One wonders if she was influenced,
subconsciously perhaps, by not only the uncleaned portrait, but also by four and
half centuries of Tudor propaganda?
And Shakespeare, of
course.
Doug

Maria wrote :

"However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey."

Carol responds:

Yes, I was quoting her when I used the phrase. I'm pretty sure she's responsible for the perpetuation of that image in fiction, but aside from my speculation about the (uncleaned) portrait (see earlier post), I'm not sure where she got the idea.

Commynes and the Croyland chronicler both talk about Edward's good looks (before he got fat) but say nothing of his coloring (and nothing about Richard's appearance except for one stray comment by the CC that he was always pale and more so near the end of his life, which I think we can take with a grain of salt given all the other nonsense in that part of the chronicle).

Carol

Hi Carol,From the reproductions of the NPG portrait pre- and post- cleaning that I possess there is no notable difference in the haircolouring. The colour is brown. Being the dark one etc... even made some people assume that Richard had black hair. Even the facial recreation had almost black hair in the beginning which turned to light brown later. Or was it just the photographs that made them look so different?Eva

Carol, perhaps he was pale towards the end of his life because he had worms and a permanent hangover!=JessFrom: justcarol67@... []Sent: 07/12/2014 16:45To: Subject: Re: Changing definitions
Maria wrote :

"However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey."

Carol responds:

Yes, I was quoting her when I used the phrase. I'm pretty sure she's responsible for the perpetuation of that image in fiction, but aside from my speculation about the (uncleaned) portrait (see earlier post), I'm not sure where she got the idea.

Commynes and the Croyland chronicler both talk about Edward's good looks (before he got fat) but say nothing of his coloring (and nothing about Richard's appearance except for one stray comment by the CC that he was always pale and more so near the end of his life, which I think we can take with a grain of salt given all the other nonsense in that part of the chronicle).

Carol