Practicalities for Reinterment Week
Practicalities for Reinterment Week
Jan here.
I have discovered that it is possible to reach Dadlington from Leicester Haymarket bus station by getting the 158 to Hinkley & then the 6 to Dadlington. It takes anything from 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 50 minutes. This is going by a December timetable. Assuming the rural bus services are not abolished by March due to financial constraints I can now go to Leicester in March without a car. I hadn't planned to visit any other villages during the week of the king's reinterment.
Has anybody else any tips to pass on?
Re: Practicalities for Reinterment Week
Paul
On 04/12/2014 20:08, janmulrenan@... [] wrote:
Jan here.
I have discovered that it is possible to reach Dadlington from Leicester Haymarket bus station by getting the 158 to Hinkley & then the 6 to Dadlington. It takes anything from 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 50 minutes. This is going by a December timetable. Assuming the rural bus services are not abolished by March due to financial constraints I can now go to Leicester in March without a car. I hadn't planned to visit any other villages during the week of the king's reinterment.
Has anybody else any tips to pass on?
Re: Practicalities for Reinterment Week
Sent from my iPad
On 5 Dec 2014, at 10:54, Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... [] <> wrote:
Warning, there is a walk at Hinkley between the place where the bus
from Leicester stops, and the one to Dadlington leaves. There can
also be a wait of up to 90 minutes between the two.
Paul
Jan here.
I have discovered that it is possible to reach Dadlington from Leicester Haymarket bus station by getting the 158 to Hinkley & then the 6 to Dadlington. It takes anything from 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 50 minutes. This is going by a December timetable. Assuming the rural bus services are not abolished by March due to financial constraints I can now go to Leicester in March without a car. I hadn't planned to visit any other villages during the week of the king's reinterment.
Has anybody else any tips to pass on?
Re: Changing definitions
Re: Changing definitions
http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/67706?rskey=jNpWsC&result=4#eid
Goes back nicely far, and would definitely be current in the fifteenth century with that understanding.
However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey. Probably, up until recently, in popular images of Richard, dark coloring next to fair coloring was incidental to the other, more damning visual cues.
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:35 AM, 'Doug Stamate' destama@... [] <> wrote:
All the posts about using fair to describe Edward IV (and others) recalled that the word has other meanings; equitable, for example. But there's also the meaning that appears in My Fair Lady, which I presume means, not blonde, but rather gracious and/or pleasing to the eye. The same applies, of course, to golden, which can refer to something made of that metal, the color of the metal applied to other objects, or used a superlative to describe a person or period of time. I don't know if the various meanings of those two words have changed over the years, but I do know that, at different times, one meaning predominates over the other; especially in general usage. Could something such as that be what's occurred in these instances? Fair being used in the My Fair Lady sense, rather than meaning light-colored hair? And golden used to describe someone without meaning any reference to that person's complexion or hair-color? Are the contexts in which fair and golden are used descriptively amenable to a definition other than one referring to complexion/hair? Just a thought, Doug
Re: Changing definitions
Here's the Oxford English Dictionary on the word "Fair" meaning "noble": http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/67706?rskey=jNpWsC&result=4#eid
Goes back nicely far, and would definitely be current in the fifteenth century with that understanding. Doug here: Thank you! Well, that provides support for a possible reading of fair as noble rather than light-complexioned, but I don't know if it closes the question. Because it also occurred to me that we'd also have to consider just where the term/s was/were seen. If it came from diplomatic correspondence, then most likely it's a translation from Latin, Italian, French, Spanish, or German, so \a check would have to be made to see if the translation was chronologically correct. Oi! Maria concluded:
However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey. Probably, up until recently, in popular images of Richard, dark coloring next to fair coloring was incidental to the other, more damning visual cues. Doug here: One wonders if she was influenced, subconsciously perhaps, by not only the uncleaned portrait, but also by four and half centuries of Tudor propaganda? And Shakespeare, of course. Doug
Re: Changing definitions
"However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey."
Carol responds:
Yes, I was quoting her when I used the phrase. I'm pretty sure she's responsible for the perpetuation of that image in fiction, but aside from my speculation about the (uncleaned) portrait (see earlier post), I'm not sure where she got the idea.
Commynes and the Croyland chronicler both talk about Edward's good looks (before he got fat) but say nothing of his coloring (and nothing about Richard's appearance except for one stray comment by the CC that he was always pale and more so near the end of his life, which I think we can take with a grain of salt given all the other nonsense in that part of the chronicle).
Carol
Re: Changing definitions
From the reproductions of the NPG portrait pre- and post- cleaning that I possess there is no notable difference in the haircolouring. The colour is brown. Being the dark one etc... even made some people assume that Richard had black hair. Even the facial recreation had almost black hair in the beginning which turned to light brown later. Or was it just the photographs that made them look so different?
Eva
Re: Changing definitions
JessFrom: justcarol67@... []
Sent: 07/12/2014 16:45
To:
Subject: Re: Changing definitions
Maria wrote :
"However, I believe that the use of this image of Richard as "the dark one in a fair family" is pretty recent - I wonder if it was actually popularized by Josephine Tey."
Carol responds:
Yes, I was quoting her when I used the phrase. I'm pretty sure she's responsible for the perpetuation of that image in fiction, but aside from my speculation about the (uncleaned) portrait (see earlier post), I'm not sure where she got the idea.
Commynes and the Croyland chronicler both talk about Edward's good looks (before he got fat) but say nothing of his coloring (and nothing about Richard's appearance except for one stray comment by the CC that he was always pale and more so near the end of his life, which I think we can take with a grain of salt given all the other nonsense in that part of the chronicle).
Carol
