Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on
Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new
haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was
created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of
myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group.
I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown,
VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These
are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy
Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for
an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years.
Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English".
The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost
no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our
grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers
is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people
coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of
"Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet
Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas
Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating
side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

David,
I have worked through our ancestry through Acestry.com. You are correct, it is so hard to find the right maternal line. I was on some wild hair chase several months ago, and found Margaret of Burgundy. But, I not one whit
of evidence that the line is mine. I will try and find that line again, and report to you. It may be so tenuous, that I will never know exactly. I also have the problem of spelling of last names, in the U.S. Census, and also in England, Scotland and Ireland,
not to mention France. Just one name, Sartain, can be Sartin, Certain, Certon, etc.
Please do keep us informed.
Pamela Bain

On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:26 PM, dobrink@... [] <> wrote:


As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA
sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers
to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda
Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact
that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your
Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".

Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman

Columbia, SC USA

David Brinkman wrote :"The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers
is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people
coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of
"Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet
Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas
Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating
side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/"Carol responds:I'm by no means a Plantagenet expert or genealogical expert, but I can offer a few suggestions. The Daughters of the American Revolution and the Mayflower Society have both done extensive research on early American colonists and may be able to help you. Whether similar organizations exist for descendants of Jamestown ancestors, I don't know, but the officers of the organizations I mentioned can direct you to one if it exists. Another possibility is the Virginia Historical Society, which will certainly have material on Jamestown.Also, you can find Richard's maternal line in our Files at this link https://xa.yimg.com/df//ncomms6631-s1.pdf?token=480pRA6MVpDYMFuYmLH6jiJQ7JFXK3h9PtP957gvykntlbt4NBmSZzxc8PUGvEw51zNCs6EKaihQTX0SLLFss6PQObLiecVORDIn8JYsXoA&type=download and compare it with your own maternal ancestors to see if you see any possible links.Good luck with your search.Carol

Douglas Richardson is most widely published serious royal-ancestry genealogist, so the most recent edition of ROYAL ANCESTRY (2013, I think) is a good reference book. The Jamestowne Society has a website at Site Title. I don't know how much help they are likely to be able to offer -- Richard III is not their direct interest -- but the site gives some contact information and a list of ancestors who would qualify a descendant's eligibility to join the society. However, they say that their list excludes some documented Jamestown ancestors because descent can't be proven. You could email the Executive Director and ask if the Registrar would be interested. Site Title Welcome to Jamestowne Society View on www.jamestowne.org Preview by Yahoo Secondly, NEHGS -- New England Historic Genealogical Society -- takes some interest in Virginia, and someone there might find your problem interesting. My inclination would be toward Gary Boyd Roberts, but they might have someone else, too.Thirdly, there's the group Google Groups soc.genealogy.medieval, where Richard's Y-DNA is being discussed at length. Douglas Richardson posts to that group from time to time. They don't normally take discussions much past 1550, but they probably would in your case! L.P.H.,Ann Google Groups Google Groups allows you to create and participate in online forums and email-based groups with a rich experience for community conversations. View on groups.google.com Preview by Yahoo

Hi David, I may be able to help you a bit with your search - though whether it will lead you to a Plantagenet who knows? About five years' ago I was contacted by someone of the same surname (not Jones!) from the US. He had been able to trace his male ancestors back to Accomack, Virginia and they had arrived there in the early 1620s. He had used 'Colonial Families of Delaware' by Wright and 'Wenches Wives and Widows - sixteen women of early Virginia' by JoAnn Riley MacKay. These books seem to have been written by state genealogists, so it's worth seeing if you can trace any more. It helped a bit that one of his guys had been Governor of Delaware! I looked at the parish registers of my lot and was able to find his exact people with their birth dates. Through registers and wills we were able to go back to 1524 and to establish that 'his lot' had probably left for the colonies because they were the grandsons of a second marriage - the sons of the first marriage had inherited most of the land and money. So try to find when your people left England and where they left from - then look in the registers.Before parish registers in 1537 it gets a whole lot more difficult. Even with registers there was no common spelling of surnames and before the sixteenth century people were less static because they owned manors in various places - so John Hall of Warwick in one document might be John Hall of York in another; you just have to find links and form a view (or something that says he has interests in both places). So the places to look are: County Visitations - but these come with a health warning. They can be inaccurate (because people were scratching in retrospect to prove they were an armiger) and I've found via wills that they don't name the whole family, just the ones that provide the right path. They are available online through archive.orgWills - marvellous! These are either at the National Archives or County Record OfficesDocuments in the National Archives - usually about land transactions but your lot might get a mention if they were lawyers, High Sheriffs or Escheators. These are also free to search online. Linking them accurately is also more difficult too because as I said, visitations don't show everyone. So in 'our' lot I have high sheriffs of Hunts and Devon, who were almost certainly cousins because they married into the same families but whose names are spelled differently because of local pronunciation. Then another contemporary is Escheator of Staffs and has an indenture to Henry V for the Agincourt campaign. (So being a Governor did perhaps run in the blood). I've so far got back to Henry II, but through an illegitimate line. The other thing I would say is don't be put off because the name is no longer 'famous'. A lot of people's fortunes went down through the centuries, so the Montforts (of Simon fame) ended up as farmers, the Pargiters (ancestors of George Washington) as bakers. Finally, this whole debate about male DNA illustrates I think how dangerous less than perfect technology can be. The guy from the US and my cousin compared DNA. A bit like Richard, the result said a more than fifty per cent probability of relationship which made the US guy dismiss it - he wanted one hundred per cent. Now this was fourteen generations; Richard's is nearly two hundred years' before this so, I would guess, even more difficult to get a hundred per cent accuracy. And with someone like Richard/the Planatgenets speculations become rife. Hope this helps a bit. H

Hillary, thank you for the information. I found the first book, and also found "Colonial Families of the Southern States of America: A History of Genealogy of Colonial Families Who Settled in the Colonies Prior to the Revolution". I have been able to trace
some of the families, not all. I thought we had probably been drug over as indentured servants, or were the losers in Scotland. To my surprise, many came very early, and have found the Withserspoon Family way back int Scotland because they were ministers.


On Dec 14, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:


Hi David, I may be able to help you a bit with your search - though whether it will lead you to a Plantagenet who knows?
About five years' ago I was contacted by someone of the same surname (not Jones!) from the US. He had been able to trace his male ancestors back to Accomack, Virginia and they had arrived there in the early
1620s. He had used 'Colonial Families of Delaware' by Wright and 'Wenches Wives and Widows - sixteen women of early Virginia' by JoAnn Riley MacKay. These books seem to have been written by state genealogists, so it's worth seeing if you can trace any more.
It helped a bit that one of his guys had been Governor of Delaware!
I looked at the parish registers of my lot and was able to find his exact people with their birth dates. Through registers and wills we were able to go back to 1524 and to establish that 'his lot' had probably
left for the colonies because they were the grandsons of a second marriage - the sons of the first marriage had inherited most of the land and money. So try to find when your people left England and where they left from - then look in the registers.Before
parish registers in 1537 it gets a whole lot more difficult. Even with registers there was no common spelling of surnames and before the sixteenth century people were less static because they owned manors in various places - so John Hall of Warwick in one
document might be John Hall of York in another; you just have to find links and form a view (or something that says he has interests in both places).
So the places to look are:
County Visitations - but these come with a health warning. They can be inaccurate (because people were scratching in retrospect to prove they were an armiger) and I've found via wills that they don't name
the whole family, just the ones that provide the right path. They are available online through
archive.org
Wills - marvellous! These are either at the National Archives or County Record Offices
Documents in the National Archives - usually about land transactions but your lot might get a mention if they were lawyers, High Sheriffs or Escheators. These are also free to search online.
Linking them accurately is also more difficult too because as I said, visitations don't show everyone. So in 'our' lot I have high sheriffs of Hunts and Devon, who were almost certainly cousins because they
married into the same families but whose names are spelled differently because of local pronunciation. Then another contemporary is Escheator of Staffs and has an indenture to Henry V for the Agincourt campaign. (So being a Governor did perhaps run in the
blood). I've so far got back to Henry II, but through an illegitimate line. The other thing I would say is don't be put off because the name is no longer 'famous'. A lot of people's fortunes went down through the centuries, so the Montforts (of Simon fame)
ended up as farmers, the Pargiters (ancestors of George Washington) as bakers.
Finally, this whole debate about male DNA illustrates I think how dangerous less than perfect technology can be. The guy from the US and my cousin compared DNA. A bit like Richard, the result said a more than
fifty per cent probability of relationship which made the US guy dismiss it - he wanted one hundred per cent. Now this was fourteen generations; Richard's is nearly two hundred years' before this so, I would guess, even more difficult to get a hundred per
cent accuracy. And with someone like Richard/the Planatgenets speculations become rife.
Hope this helps a bit. H

Yes, I think few were dragged, more lured by the opportunity, or religion if this was a real problem. In the case I'm talking about, it seems to have been a group of younger sons of the farming community looking for land they'd been denied over here. There's an interesting note in the same parish register to a local soldier killed in the Civil War saying 'he refused to go out to New England'. Bet he wished he had! H From: "Pamela Bain pbain@... []" <> To: "<>" <> Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 15:37 Subject: Re: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Hillary, thank you for the information. I found the first book, and also found "Colonial Families of the Southern States of America: A History of Genealogy of Colonial Families Who Settled in the Colonies Prior to the Revolution". I have been able to trace
some of the families, not all. I thought we had probably been drug over as indentured servants, or were the losers in Scotland. To my surprise, many came very early, and have found the Withserspoon Family way back int Scotland because they were ministers.


On Dec 14, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:

Hi David, I may be able to help you a bit with your search - though whether it will lead you to a Plantagenet who knows?
About five years' ago I was contacted by someone of the same surname (not Jones!) from the US. He had been able to trace his male ancestors back to Accomack, Virginia and they had arrived there in the early
1620s. He had used 'Colonial Families of Delaware' by Wright and 'Wenches Wives and Widows - sixteen women of early Virginia' by JoAnn Riley MacKay. These books seem to have been written by state genealogists, so it's worth seeing if you can trace any more.
It helped a bit that one of his guys had been Governor of Delaware!
I looked at the parish registers of my lot and was able to find his exact people with their birth dates. Through registers and wills we were able to go back to 1524 and to establish that 'his lot' had probably
left for the colonies because they were the grandsons of a second marriage - the sons of the first marriage had inherited most of the land and money. So try to find when your people left England and where they left from - then look in the registers.Before
parish registers in 1537 it gets a whole lot more difficult. Even with registers there was no common spelling of surnames and before the sixteenth century people were less static because they owned manors in various places - so John Hall of Warwick in one
document might be John Hall of York in another; you just have to find links and form a view (or something that says he has interests in both places).
So the places to look are:
County Visitations - but these come with a health warning. They can be inaccurate (because people were scratching in retrospect to prove they were an armiger) and I've found via wills that they don't name
the whole family, just the ones that provide the right path. They are available online through
archive.org
Wills - marvellous! These are either at the National Archives or County Record Offices
Documents in the National Archives - usually about land transactions but your lot might get a mention if they were lawyers, High Sheriffs or Escheators. These are also free to search online.
Linking them accurately is also more difficult too because as I said, visitations don't show everyone. So in 'our' lot I have high sheriffs of Hunts and Devon, who were almost certainly cousins because they
married into the same families but whose names are spelled differently because of local pronunciation. Then another contemporary is Escheator of Staffs and has an indenture to Henry V for the Agincourt campaign. (So being a Governor did perhaps run in the
blood). I've so far got back to Henry II, but through an illegitimate line. The other thing I would say is don't be put off because the name is no longer 'famous'. A lot of people's fortunes went down through the centuries, so the Montforts (of Simon fame)
ended up as farmers, the Pargiters (ancestors of George Washington) as bakers.
Finally, this whole debate about male DNA illustrates I think how dangerous less than perfect technology can be. The guy from the US and my cousin compared DNA. A bit like Richard, the result said a more than
fifty per cent probability of relationship which made the US guy dismiss it - he wanted one hundred per cent. Now this was fourteen generations; Richard's is nearly two hundred years' before this so, I would guess, even more difficult to get a hundred per
cent accuracy. And with someone like Richard/the Planatgenets speculations become rife.
Hope this helps a bit. H

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent:
Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

 
As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on
Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new
haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was
created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of
myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group.
I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown,
VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These
are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy
Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for
an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years.
Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English".
The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost
no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our
grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers
is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people
coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of
"Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet
Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas
Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating
side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent:
Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

 
As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on
Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new
haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was
created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of
myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group.
I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown,
VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These
are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy
Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for
an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years.
Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English".
The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost
no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our
grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers
is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people
coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of
"Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet
Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas
Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating
side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <> To: "" <> Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13 Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent:
Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on
Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new
haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was
created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of
myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group.
I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown,
VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These
are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy
Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for
an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years.
Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English".
The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost
no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our
grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers
is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people
coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of
"Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet
Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas
Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating
side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.Jess IFrom: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13To: Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.
I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <> To: "" <> Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13 Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent:
Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on
Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new
haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was
created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of
myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group.
I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown,
VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These
are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy
Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for
an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years.
Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English".
The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost
no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our
grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers
is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people
coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of
"Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet
Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas
Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating
side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but
my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various
spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but
the other three names are absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to
them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight.
Sandra
From: mailto:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King
RichardIII.. in the United States.

My maiden name was
Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a
Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.The connection geographically is with
Franklin, Virginia.I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly
available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these
matters.What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is
based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they
would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as
well as farming.Jess I
From:
mailto:Sent:
15/12/2014
10:13To:
Subject:
Re:
Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the
United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is
a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer
estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The
other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all
17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@...
[]"
<>To:
""
<> Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014,
18:13Subject: Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United
States.
Some of my family, going by their
surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I
can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.I have
no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of
the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@...
[] <>; To:
<>; Subject: Exact
mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States. Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014
5:36:22 PM
As some of you may have noticed in the
recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed
the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created
by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself
and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this
group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our
oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in
America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA
match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major
DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable
line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which
may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA
(not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the
US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women
before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to
about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you
experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations
on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English
colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic
Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in
Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to
help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a
research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

What is useful about my maiden name is that it is quite geographically grounded. We do occur all over, but mainly are in Cumbria and Lancashire, and then my branch which seems to have been in Devon for about 1000 years or so.
They are still there in the South Molton, Molland, West Ansty area to this day.
What is interesting is that since we last spoke about this, I have discovered through the National Archives at Kew, that there were two abbot' s of Furness Abbey called Cockram (Kokerham) in I believe about 1200, which is significant because my son in law is from a small village in the South Lakes area, which is also, "in Furness."
We always tease him about being from "up north" but maybe we all originated in the same place.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.
Sent:
Mon, Dec 15, 2014 1:23:47 PM

 


I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but
my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various
spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but
the other three names are absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to
them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight.
 
Sandra
 
From: mailto:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King
RichardIII.. in the United States.
 
 


My maiden name was
Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a
Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.The connection geographically is with
Franklin, Virginia.I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly
available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these
matters.What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is
based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they
would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as
well as farming.Jess I
From:
mailto:Sent:
15/12/2014
10:13To:
Subject:
Re:
Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the
United States. 


I think the Plantagenet thing is
a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer
estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The
other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all
17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
 
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@...
[]"
<>To:
""
<> Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014,
18:13Subject: Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United
States.
 
 
Some of my family, going by their
surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I
can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.I have
no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of
the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
 
From: dobrink@...
[] <>; To:
<>; Subject: Exact
mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States. Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014
5:36:22 PM
 
As some of you may have noticed in the
recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed
the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created
by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself
and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this
group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our
oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in
America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA
match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major
DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable
line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which
may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA
(not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the
US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women
before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to
about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you
experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations
on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English
colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic
Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in
Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to
help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a
research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Here is the passenger list for the Mayflower:
Mayflower (1620)
View the original
list of passengers (PDF, 2.6Mb) from the handwritten manuscript of Gov. William Bradford, written up about 1651 (file link is to the State Library of Massachusetts). Below is a complete list of all Mayflower passengers, along with a link to each
for further information.
John AldenIsaac and Mary
(Norris) Allerton, and children Bartholomew, Remember,
and MaryJohn AllertonJohn and Eleanor
Billington, and sons John and Francis.William and Dorothy
(May) BradfordWilliam and Mary
Brewster, and children Love and WrestlingRichard BritteridgePeter BrowneWilliam ButtenRobert CarterJohn and Katherine
(White) CarverJames and Mrs.
Chilton, and daughter MaryRichard ClarkeFrancis Cooke and son JohnHumility CooperJohn Crackstone and son JohnEdward DotyFrancis and Sarah
Eaton, and son SamuelThomas EnglishMoses FletcherEdward and Mrs. Fuller, and son SamuelSamuel FullerRichard GardinerJohn GoodmanWilliam HolbeckJohn HookeStephen and Elizabeth
(Fisher) Hopkins and children Constance, Giles and Damaris;
son Oceanus was born during the voyage.John Howland
John LangmoreWilliam LathamEdward LeisterEdmund MargessonChristopher and Mary
(Prower) MartinDesire MinterEllen, Jasper, Richard, and Mary MoreWilliam and Alice
Mullins and children Priscilla and JosephDegory PriestSolomon ProwerJohn and Alice RigsdaleThomas Rogers and son JosephHenry SamsonGeorge SouleMyles and Rose
StandishElias StoryEdward ThompsonEdward and Agnes
(Cooper) TilleyJohn and Joan
(Hurst) Tilley and daughter ElizabethThomas and Mrs. Tinker, and a sonWilliam TrevoreJohn Turner, and two sonsRichard WarrenWilliam and Susanna
White, and son Resolved (son Peregrine was born shipboard in Provincetown
Harbor after arrival).Roger WilderThomas WilliamsEdward and Elizabeth
(Barker) WinslowGilbert Winslow"Mr. Ely"Dorothy (John Carver's maidservant)

Jess, my husband is also doing research on the early families. Sadly, I am behind on my reading, and there were several ships which sailed from England in the early 1630's. I will keep searching for passenger lists.



On Dec 15, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Janjovian janjovian@... [] <> wrote:


My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.


I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H

From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

My great grandmother was a York, so I live in hope that there is a tenuous tie. I expect absolutely no Platagenets, but there is a Neville.



On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:24 AM, 'SandraMachin'
sandramachin@... [] <> wrote:


I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but the other three names are
absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight.
Sandra
From:
mailto:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
mailto:
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.


I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android
From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

I did find this from history of West Indies....and Captain Rogers

On 14 September 1718, Rogers received word that Vane was at Green Turtle Cay near Abaco,
about 120 miles (190 km) north of Nassau.[46][47] Some
of the pardoned pirates on New Providence took boats to join Vane, and Rogers decided to send two ex-pirate captains, Benjamin
Hornigold and John Cockram, with a crew to gather intelligence, and, if possible, to bring Vane to battle. As the weeks passed, and hopes of their return dimmed, Rogers declared martial law and set all inhabitants to work on rebuilding the island's fortifications.
Finally, the former pirates returned. They had failed to find an opportunity to kill Vane or bring him to battle, but had captured one ship and a number of pirate captives. Captain Hornigold was then sent to recapture the ships and crews who had gone pirate
en route to Havana. He returned with ten prisoners and three corpses.[48] On
9 December 1718, Rogers brought the ten men captured by Hornigold to trial. Nine were convicted, and Rogers had eight hanged three days later, reprieving the ninth on hearing he was of good family. One of the condemned, Thomas Morris, quipped as he climbed
the gallows, "We have a good governor, but a harsh one."[46] The
executions so cowed the populace that when, shortly after Christmas, several residents plotted to overthrow Rogers and restore the island to piracy, the conspirators attracted little support. Rogers had them flogged, then released as harmless


On Dec 15, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Janjovian janjovian@... [] <> wrote:


My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.


I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H

From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Firstly, I have no expertise whatsoever in US genealogy - it was the US cousin who'd done all the work that side so credit to him not me. Pamela, on your Mayflower list there are two names that intrigue me. One is Goodman, which crops up again and again in my Oxfordshire area, and the other is Holbeck, or rather Holbech. Now they were 'lords of the manor' of that area around the time we're talking of, so perhaps our William recruited young and able farmers willing to go out there? My lot also originated from Stokesley Inglesby near York (yes can never get away from Stillington!) and I keep bumping into your Yorks so don't give up. It's often through the female line and the most 'ordinary' name. But it is really hard graft H From: "Pamela Bain pbain@... []" <> To: "<>" <> Sent: Monday, 15 December 2014, 13:57 Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.
My great grandmother was a York, so I live in hope that there is a tenuous tie. I expect absolutely no Platagenets, but there is a Neville.



On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:24 AM, 'SandraMachin'
sandramachin@... [] <> wrote:

I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but the other three names are
absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight.
Sandra
From:
mailto:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.
My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
mailto:
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android
From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Yea, I have no expectations of royal lineage! I was just relieved and shocked that my ancestors came so early, and fought in the Revolution. The records are so scanty, and I am very much looking forward to the recommended books. I expect they all worked
hard, and just lived normal lives. My great grandfather Sartain, who married Nancy Jacobs York, was a farmer, made ribbon cane syrup, a blacksmith and played the fiddle/violin. He was alive until I was about ten or twelve. He was a character. Miss Nancy was
the result of a second marriage of Henrietta Temperance O'Quinn. Her first husband was a Cooper, and they came to Texas with Stephen F. Austin. Her Cooper husband rode by horseback from Henderson in East Texas to San Antonio, and joined Sibley's Rangers in
the Civil War. He never came back. There was no record of his death, but many soldiers just disappeared. She had three children from him, and then married her neighbor, Mr. York, and they had children. Temperance inherited the farm and slaves. And the farm
went through the distaff side and stayed in the family until the cousins who all lived elsewhere, decided to finally sell the remaining acreage.
This is ABSOLUTELY of no interest to Richard III, so forgive my ramble!

On Dec 15, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:


Firstly, I have no expertise whatsoever in US genealogy - it was the US cousin who'd done all the work that side so credit to him not me. Pamela, on your Mayflower list there are two names that intrigue me.
One is Goodman, which crops up again and again in my Oxfordshire area, and the other is Holbeck, or rather Holbech. Now they were 'lords of the manor' of that area around the time we're talking of, so perhaps our William recruited young and able farmers willing
to go out there?
My lot also originated from Stokesley Inglesby near York (yes can never get away from Stillington!) and I keep bumping into your Yorks so don't give up. It's often through the female line and the most 'ordinary'
name. But it is really hard graft H

From: "Pamela Bain
pbain@... []" <>
To: "<>" <>

Sent: Monday, 15 December 2014, 13:57
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

My great grandmother was a York, so I live in hope that there is a tenuous tie. I expect absolutely no Platagenets, but there is a Neville.





On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:24 AM, 'SandraMachin'
sandramachin@... [] <> wrote:

I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but the other three names are
absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight.
Sandra
From:
mailto:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.
My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
mailto:
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other
Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android
From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Sandra, for Rogers think Fitzrogers, for Lewis Fitzlewis! Yep those Normans are everywhere. Machin, now that's intriguing. Don't give up on ordinary names - Hall, West, Wells to name but a few. Get to a Welles and you could have a gateway ancestor H :) :) From: "'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... []" <> To: Sent: Monday, 15 December 2014, 13:23 Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.
I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but
my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various
spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but
the other three names are absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to
them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight.
Sandra
From: mailto:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King
RichardIII.. in the United States.
My maiden name was
Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a
Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.The connection geographically is with
Franklin, Virginia.I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly
available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these
matters.What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is
based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they
would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as
well as farming.Jess I
From:
mailto:Sent:
15/12/2014
10:13To:
Subject:
Re:
Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the
United States.
I think the Plantagenet thing is
a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer
estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The
other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all
17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@...
[]"
<>To:
""
<> Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014,
18:13Subject: Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United
States.
Some of my family, going by their
surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I
can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.I have
no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of
the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@...
[] <>; To:
<>; Subject: Exact
mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States. Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014
5:36:22 PM
As some of you may have noticed in the
recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed
the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created
by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself
and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done
almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this
group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our
oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in
America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA
match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major
DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable
line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which
may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA
(not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the
US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women
before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to
about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you
experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations
on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English
colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic
Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in
Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to
help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a
research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

That is brilliant, Pamela.
I did know that we had a pirate somewhere in the ancestry, but I have never seen that before.
I think that being near Plymouth, and Exeter, not to mention the little sea ports on the Cornish coast, would have tempted people to sea, and also to emigration, when times got hard at home.
Interesting, if brutal profession, being a pirate!
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
Pamela Bain pbain@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to KingRichardIII.. in the United States.
Sent:
Mon, Dec 15, 2014 2:41:41 PM

 

I did find this from history of West Indies....and Captain Rogers

On 14 September 1718, Rogers received word that Vane was at Green Turtle Cay near Abaco,
about 120 miles (190 km) north of Nassau.[46][47] Some
of the pardoned pirates on New Providence took boats to join Vane, and Rogers decided to send two ex-pirate captains, Benjamin
Hornigold and John Cockram, with a crew to gather intelligence, and, if possible, to bring Vane to battle. As the weeks passed, and hopes of their return dimmed, Rogers declared martial law and set all inhabitants to work on rebuilding the island's fortifications.
Finally, the former pirates returned. They had failed to find an opportunity to kill Vane or bring him to battle, but had captured one ship and a number of pirate captives. Captain Hornigold was then sent to recapture the ships and crews who had gone pirate
en route to Havana. He returned with ten prisoners and three corpses.[48] On
9 December 1718, Rogers brought the ten men captured by Hornigold to trial. Nine were convicted, and Rogers had eight hanged three days later, reprieving the ninth on hearing he was of good family. One of the condemned, Thomas Morris, quipped as he climbed
the gallows, "We have a good governor, but a harsh one."[46] The
executions so cowed the populace that when, shortly after Christmas, several residents plotted to overthrow Rogers and restore the island to piracy, the conspirators attracted little support. Rogers had them flogged, then released as harmless


On Dec 15, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Janjovian janjovian@... [] <> wrote:

 

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

 

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H

From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

 
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


 
As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

That is brilliant, Pamela.
I did know that we had a pirate somewhere in the ancestry, but I have never seen that before.
I think that being near Plymouth, and Exeter, not to mention the little sea ports on the Cornish coast, would have tempted people to sea, and also to emigration, when times got hard at home.
Interesting, if brutal profession, being a pirate!
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:
Pamela Bain pbain@... [] <>;
To:
<>;
Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to KingRichardIII.. in the United States.
Sent:
Mon, Dec 15, 2014 2:41:41 PM

 

I did find this from history of West Indies....and Captain Rogers

On 14 September 1718, Rogers received word that Vane was at Green Turtle Cay near Abaco,
about 120 miles (190 km) north of Nassau.[46][47] Some
of the pardoned pirates on New Providence took boats to join Vane, and Rogers decided to send two ex-pirate captains, Benjamin
Hornigold and John Cockram, with a crew to gather intelligence, and, if possible, to bring Vane to battle. As the weeks passed, and hopes of their return dimmed, Rogers declared martial law and set all inhabitants to work on rebuilding the island's fortifications.
Finally, the former pirates returned. They had failed to find an opportunity to kill Vane or bring him to battle, but had captured one ship and a number of pirate captives. Captain Hornigold was then sent to recapture the ships and crews who had gone pirate
en route to Havana. He returned with ten prisoners and three corpses.[48] On
9 December 1718, Rogers brought the ten men captured by Hornigold to trial. Nine were convicted, and Rogers had eight hanged three days later, reprieving the ninth on hearing he was of good family. One of the condemned, Thomas Morris, quipped as he climbed
the gallows, "We have a good governor, but a harsh one."[46] The
executions so cowed the populace that when, shortly after Christmas, several residents plotted to overthrow Rogers and restore the island to piracy, the conspirators attracted little support. Rogers had them flogged, then released as harmless


On Dec 15, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Janjovian janjovian@... [] <> wrote:

 

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

 

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H

From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

 
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM


 
As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Our Sartain ancestors went in two directions. One was a master etcher in Philadelphia, and the other ran a rum plantation on Barbados. When all the cousins got together, knowing our great grandfather, who made cane syrup and also had a still, we all voted
on the rum plantation one, as our forefather! I am sure we all have scalawags, horse thieves or some sort of wandering relative. I will keep searching! It is such fun to find a name, even if you cannot absolutely prove the tie!


On Dec 15, 2014, at 1:02 PM, Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... [] <> wrote:


That is brilliant, Pamela.
I did know that we had a pirate somewhere in the ancestry, but I have never seen that before.
I think that being near Plymouth, and Exeter, not to mention the little sea ports on the Cornish coast, would have tempted people to sea, and also to emigration, when times got hard at home.
Interesting, if brutal profession, being a pirate!
Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From: Pamela Bain
pbain@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to KingRichardIII.. in the United States.

Sent: Mon, Dec 15, 2014 2:41:41 PM


I did find this from history of West Indies....and Captain Rogers

On 14 September 1718, Rogers received word that Vane was at Green Turtle Cay near Abaco,
about 120 miles (190 km) north of Nassau.[46][47] Some
of the pardoned pirates on New Providence took boats to join Vane, and Rogers decided to send two ex-pirate captains, Benjamin
Hornigold and John Cockram, with a crew to gather intelligence, and, if possible, to bring Vane to battle. As the weeks passed, and hopes of their return dimmed, Rogers declared martial law and set all inhabitants to work on rebuilding the island's fortifications.
Finally, the former pirates returned. They had failed to find an opportunity to kill Vane or bring him to battle, but had captured one ship and a number of pirate captives. Captain Hornigold was then sent to recapture the ships and crews who had gone pirate
en route to Havana. He returned with ten prisoners and three corpses.[48] On
9 December 1718, Rogers brought the ten men captured by Hornigold to trial. Nine were convicted, and Rogers had eight hanged three days later, reprieving the ninth on hearing he was of good family. One of the condemned, Thomas Morris, quipped as he climbed
the gallows, "We have a good governor, but a harsh one."[46] The
executions so cowed the populace that when, shortly after Christmas, several residents plotted to overthrow Rogers and restore the island to piracy, the conspirators attracted little support. Rogers had them flogged, then released as harmless


On Dec 15, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Janjovian
janjovian@... [] <> wrote:


My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From:
Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent:
15/12/2014 10:13
To:

Subject:
Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.


I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names
I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H

From: "Jessie Skinner
janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>

Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.
Jess
Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android

From:
dobrink@... [] <>;

To: <>;

Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on
the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known
grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from
the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of
this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.
The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies
of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".
Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at:
http://historysoft.com/richard3/
David Brinkman
Columbia, SC USA

Pamela wrote:
//snip//
This is ABSOLUTELY of no interest to Richard III, so forgive my
ramble!
Doug here:
Perhaps not directly, but it certainly shows what's needed to trace
*anyone* and not just the in/famous.
Doug

Thank you Doug. It is fun to dig!!!!



On Dec 16, 2014, at 9:18 AM, 'Doug Stamate'
destama@... [] <> wrote:


Pamela wrote:
//snip//
This is ABSOLUTELY of no interest to Richard III, so forgive my ramble!
Doug here:
Perhaps not directly, but it certainly shows what's needed to trace *anyone* and not just the in/famous.
Doug

Absolutely! And sometimes if you follow the unknowns you stumble on the 'famous'. H From: "Pamela Bain pbain@... []" <> To: "<>" <> Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2014, 17:48 Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches toKingRichardIII.. in the United States.
Thank you Doug. It is fun to dig!!!!



On Dec 16, 2014, at 9:18 AM, 'Doug Stamate'
destama@... [] <> wrote:

Pamela wrote:
//snip//
This is ABSOLUTELY of no interest to Richard III, so forgive my ramble!
Doug here:
Perhaps not directly, but it certainly shows what's needed to trace *anyone* and not just the in/famous.
Doug