Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.

The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".

Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/

David Brinkman

Columbia, SC USA

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.

The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".

Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/

David Brinkman

Columbia, SC USA

"The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/"

Douglas Richardson is most widely published serious royal-ancestry genealogist, so the most recent edition of ROYAL ANCESTRY (2013, I think) is a good reference book.

The Jamestowne Society has a website at Site Title. I don't know how much help they are likely to be able to offer -- Richard III is not their direct interest -- but the site gives some contact information and a list of ancestors who would qualify a descendant's eligibility to join the society. However, they say that their list excludes some documented Jamestown ancestors because descent can't be proven. You could email the Executive Director and ask if the Registrar would be interested.

Secondly, NEHGS -- New England Historic Genealogical Society -- takes some interest in Virginia, and someone there might find your problem interesting. My inclination would be toward Gary Boyd Roberts, but they might have someone else, too.

Thirdly, there's the group Google Groups soc.genealogy.medieval, where Richard's Y-DNA is being discussed at length. Douglas Richardson posts to that group from time to time. They don't normally take discussions much past 1550, but they probably would in your case!

L.P.H.,

Ann

Hi David, I may be able to help you a bit with your search - though whether it will lead you to a Plantagenet who knows? About five years' ago I was contacted by someone of the same surname (not Jones!) from the US. He had been able to trace his male ancestors back to Accomack, Virginia and they had arrived there in the early 1620s. He had used 'Colonial Families of Delaware' by Wright and 'Wenches Wives and Widows - sixteen women of early Virginia' by JoAnn Riley MacKay. These books seem to have been written by state genealogists, so it's worth seeing if you can trace any more. It helped a bit that one of his guys had been Governor of Delaware! I looked at the parish registers of my lot and was able to find his exact people with their birth dates. Through registers and wills we were able to go back to 1524 and to establish that 'his lot' had probably left for the colonies because they were the grandsons of a second marriage - the sons of the first marriage had inherited most of the land and money. So try to find when your people left England and where they left from - then look in the registers.Before parish registers in 1537 it gets a whole lot more difficult. Even with registers there was no common spelling of surnames and before the sixteenth century people were less static because they owned manors in various places - so John Hall of Warwick in one document might be John Hall of York in another; you just have to find links and form a view (or something that says he has interests in both places). So the places to look are: County Visitations - but these come with a health warning. They can be inaccurate (because people were scratching in retrospect to prove they were an armiger) and I've found via wills that they don't name the whole family, just the ones that provide the right path. They are available online through archive.org Wills - marvellous! These are either at the National Archives or County Record Offices Documents in the National Archives - usually about land transactions but your lot might get a mention if they were lawyers, High Sheriffs or Escheators. These are also free to search online. Linking them accurately is also more difficult too because as I said, visitations don't show everyone. So in 'our' lot I have high sheriffs of Hunts and Devon, who were almost certainly cousins because they married into the same families but whose names are spelled differently because of local pronunciation. Then another contemporary is Escheator of Staffs and has an indenture to Henry V for the Agincourt campaign. (So being a Governor did perhaps run in the blood). I've so far got back to Henry II, but through an illegitimate line. The other thing I would say is don't be put off because the name is no longer 'famous'. A lot of people's fortunes went down through the centuries, so the Montforts (of Simon fame) ended up as farmers, the Pargiters (ancestors of George Washington) as bakers. Finally, this whole debate about male DNA illustrates I think how dangerous less than perfect technology can be. The guy from the US and my cousin compared DNA. A bit like Richard, the result said a more than fifty per cent probability of relationship which made the US guy dismiss it - he wanted one hundred per cent. Now this was fourteen generations; Richard's is nearly two hundred years' before this so, I would guess, even more difficult to get a hundred per cent accuracy. And with someone like Richard/the Planatgenets speculations become rife. Hope this helps a bit. H

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.

The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".

Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/

David Brinkman

Columbia, SC USA

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families.

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.

The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson".

Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/

David Brinkman

Columbia, SC USA

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's.The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: mailto:
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

What is useful about my maiden name is that it is quite geographically grounded. We do occur all over, but mainly are in Cumbria and Lancashire, and then my branch which seems to have been in Devon for about 1000 years or so.
They are still there in the South Molton, Molland, West Ansty area to this day.
What is interesting is that since we last spoke about this, I have discovered through the National Archives at Kew, that there were two abbot' s of Furness Abbey called Cockram (Kokerham) in I believe about 1200, which is significant because my son in law is from a small village in the South Lakes area, which is also, "in Furness."
We always tease him about being from "up north" but maybe we all originated in the same place.

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

View the original list of passengers (PDF, 2.6Mb) from the handwritten manuscript of Gov. William Bradford, written up about 1651 (file link is to the State Library of Massachusetts). Below is a complete list of all Mayflower passengers, along with a link to each for further information.

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but the other three names are absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight. Sandra From: mailto: Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM To: Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: mailto:
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

Firstly, I have no expertise whatsoever in US genealogy - it was the US cousin who'd done all the work that side so credit to him not me. Pamela, on your Mayflower list there are two names that intrigue me. One is Goodman, which crops up again and again in my Oxfordshire area, and the other is Holbeck, or rather Holbech. Now they were 'lords of the manor' of that area around the time we're talking of, so perhaps our William recruited young and able farmers willing to go out there? My lot also originated from Stokesley Inglesby near York (yes can never get away from Stillington!) and I keep bumping into your Yorks so don't give up. It's often through the female line and the most 'ordinary' name. But it is really hard graft H
From: "Pamela Bain pbain@... []" <>
To: "<>" <>
Sent: Monday, 15 December 2014, 13:57
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

My great grandmother was a York, so I live in hope that there is a tenuous tie. I expect absolutely no Platagenets, but there is a Neville.




On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:24 AM, 'SandraMachin' sandramachin@... [] <> wrote:

I wish I had an unusual name somewhere in my family background, Jess, but my grandparents were Lewis, Evans, Rogers and Machin. Machins (of various spellings) can be traced way back, and are far more common than you'd think, but the other three names are absolutely everywhere. I can't be related to them all! Unfortunately, not a Plantagenet in sight. Sandra From: mailto: Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:58 PM To: Subject: RE: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States. My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: mailto:
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

That is brilliant, Pamela.
I did know that we had a pirate somewhere in the ancestry, but I have never seen that before.
I think that being near Plymouth, and Exeter, not to mention the little sea ports on the Cornish coast, would have tempted people to sea, and also to emigration, when times got hard at home.

Interesting, if brutal profession, being a pirate!

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

 

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

  Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

  As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

That is brilliant, Pamela.
I did know that we had a pirate somewhere in the ancestry, but I have never seen that before.
I think that being near Plymouth, and Exeter, not to mention the little sea ports on the Cornish coast, would have tempted people to sea, and also to emigration, when times got hard at home.

Interesting, if brutal profession, being a pirate!

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

 

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

  Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

  As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3.  This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

That is brilliant, Pamela.
I did know that we had a pirate somewhere in the ancestry, but I have never seen that before.
I think that being near Plymouth, and Exeter, not to mention the little sea ports on the Cornish coast, would have tempted people to sea, and also to emigration, when times got hard at home.

Interesting, if brutal profession, being a pirate!

Jess

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

I did find this from history of West Indies....and Captain Rogers
On 14 September 1718, Rogers received word that Vane was at Green Turtle Cay near Abaco, about 120 miles (190 km) north of Nassau.[46][47] Some of the pardoned pirates on New Providence took boats to join Vane, and Rogers decided to send two ex-pirate captains, Benjamin Hornigold and John Cockram, with a crew to gather intelligence, and, if possible, to bring Vane to battle. As the weeks passed, and hopes of their return dimmed, Rogers declared martial law and set all inhabitants to work on rebuilding the island's fortifications. Finally, the former pirates returned. They had failed to find an opportunity to kill Vane or bring him to battle, but had captured one ship and a number of pirate captives. Captain Hornigold was then sent to recapture the ships and crews who had gone pirate en route to Havana. He returned with ten prisoners and three corpses.[48] On 9 December 1718, Rogers brought the ten men captured by Hornigold to trial. Nine were convicted, and Rogers had eight hanged three days later, reprieving the ninth on hearing he was of good family. One of the condemned, Thomas Morris, quipped as he climbed the gallows, "We have a good governor, but a harsh one."[46] The executions so cowed the populace that when, shortly after Christmas, several residents plotted to overthrow Rogers and restore the island to piracy, the conspirators attracted little support. Rogers had them flogged, then released as harmless

On Dec 15, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Janjovian janjovian@... [] <> wrote:

My maiden name was Cockram. My brother in law who has done a little research, told me that a Cockram sailed with Captain John Smith.
The connection geographically is with Franklin, Virginia.
I am afraid I don't know much other than what is openly available on the internet, I most certainly don't have your expertise in these matters.
What seems relevant, at least to me, is the fact that the family is based in Devon and the West Country mainly, at least my branch of it, so they would have likely been available for jobs and positions that were sea going as well as farming.

Jess
I
From: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent: 15/12/2014 10:13
To:
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King RichardIII.. in the United States.

I think the Plantagenet thing is a red herring - there must be hundreds of thousands out there - Ian Mortimer estimated 80% of the English population descended from Edward III alone. The other Virginia names I have are Watkins, Baker, Webb, Hunt, Tunnell, Taylor all 17th century then Cain and Merill early 18th. Any similarities? H
From: "Jessie Skinner janjovian@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2014, 18:13
Subject: Re: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.

Some of my family, going by their surname alone, (which is quite an unusual one, my maiden name that is), I can find in records going back to 1661 in Virginia.
I have no idea if they have any Plantagenant blood but they were certainly one of the very earliest colonial families. Jess Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From: dobrink@... [] <>;
To: <>;
Subject: Exact mtDNA matches to King Richard III.. in the United States.
Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 5:36:22 PM

As some of you may have noticed in the recent DNA results on Richard III, the full mtDNA sequence has now placed the King in a new haplogroup of J1c2c3. This new group was created by English researcher Ian Logan based on the full mtDNA sequence of myself and another man who, like me, is from the United States. This was done almost a year ago. A third man from the US has also been matched to this group. I have been in contact with these two men and we all trace our oldest known grandmothers to the area of the first English settlement in America (Jamestown, VA and Elizabeth City, NC). We are all an exact mtDNA match to Michael Ibsen. These are currently, the only known (in the major DNA databases) exact matches. Wendy Duldig (from the Everhilda Constable line) would also be an exact match except for an additional mutation which may have come along in the last 200-400 years. Looking at the total DNA (not just mtDNA) we are all "very English". The challenge we have with the US side of this is the fact that there is almost no documentation of women before 1800 so all three of us have only traced our grandmothers back to about 1800. We may need to go to the early 1600's. The question I have for all you experienced Plantagenet researchers is, do any of you have recommendations on sources for tracing Plantagenet people coming to these early English colonies? I have already purchased copies of "Tracing Your Aristocratic Ancestors by Anthony Adolph" and "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson". Thank you for any advice you can give to help us solve this fascinating side of the King's discovery. I have a research site for this work at: http://historysoft.com/richard3/ David Brinkman Columbia, SC USA

Pamela wrote: //snip// This is ABSOLUTELY of no interest to Richard III, so forgive my ramble! Doug here: Perhaps not directly, but it certainly shows what's needed to trace *anyone* and not just the in/famous. Doug