1483 Rebel Analysis - Nearly there

What seemed like an age ago I promised to trace each 1483 rebel because I'm so tired of historian after historian claiming that these rebellions were all to do with dislike of Richard's so-called usurpation and the popular will to put Edward's sons back on the throne. Or with north/south divides (Horrox).

I've now looked at some 80% of the 200-odd rebels named in the Parliament of 1484 and, by looked at, I mean traced who they really were, not whether they were an 'esquire' or a 'leading rebel' or whether, because they'd served, Edward they must have loved him and by default his children. When I've finished the lot I'll upload my data spreadsheets, which group them, and also follow them through to exile (perhaps) and to Bosworth. At first it was a bit like cracking enigma; but with each one it becomes more clear.

So here are the results so far:

Our rebels fall into three groups:

a. Woodville supporters - no surprise there

b. old Lancaster from 'De Vere' land around Oxfordshire and Northants

c. the grudge brigade in the South West - important families punished and subject to attainder by the House of York (yes they really loved Edward!). In these I'll include MB, HT, Buckingham. You might call them old Lancaster too. The South West is traditional Lancaster territory - MOA chose to land there. Even more than the North East it's a very closed community - intermarriage outside the area is rare. Both the Woodvilles (through Joan Bittlesgate) and MB have strong influence there. Upset my friend, he's also my cousin etc. etc. That's part of the clue to cracking the code, and repercussions from Tewkesbury also feature.

So no real surprises. It doesn't take a master strategist to envisage a Woodville amnesty - support our new young king and you can have your lands and Offices back. Richard was part of the regime that took them, you'll never be restored to favour with him. Look at his motto!

But what about the non-barking dogs?

a. no unique Buckingham supporters (in fact hard to find anyone north of about Northants)

b. no idealists shouting we must restore dear Edward's sons (Sorry!!)

c. no real sign of MB mobilising her internal networks which, as we know, are huge. Yes she used Reggie Bray and her messengers but perhaps at this stage she was keeping her powder dry?

d. no intervention by the clergy. Every book that claims that Richard seized the Crown doesn't explain how he got the pre-contract story by the clergy when his great-nephew couldn't get his divorce through! Surely someone would have gone running to the Pope?

e. No Bretons - sorry David, I did look

f. No hoards rushing to join HT - I make it about a dozen so far, and the usual brigade

g. Hardline Lancaster in the SW who just didn't participate - why not, too risky?

As for 'ruthless Richard', well he was mighty lenient with this lot. Very few executions and a lot of the attainders later reversed. Horrox criticises him for imposing Halnath Mauleverer as Sheriff of Cornwall.

He was married to a Carminowe and had moved there for years! Yet he still made it back to Bosworth.

Finally there is one intriguing little clutch of ex-Clarence supporters. Still working on that.

I'd also like to express my thanks to a couple of things. One is the marvellous website www.historyofparliamentonline.org which really does explain people's friendships and views as well as their offices and relationships, and secondly the hundreds of people on the web researching their own family history. The level of debate is now very impressive. It must have been nigh on impossible to do this so fast without such resources even though of course you do have to test them.

Back to work:) H

That is very interesting, and a lot of scholarly digging and work.

From: [mailto: ]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 9:43 AM
To:
Subject: 1483 Rebel Analysis - Nearly there

What seemed like an age ago I promised to trace each 1483 rebel because I'm so tired of historian after historian claiming that these rebellions were all to do with dislike of Richard's so-called usurpation and the popular will to put Edward's sons back on the throne. Or with north/south divides (Horrox).

I've now looked at some 80% of the 200-odd rebels named in the Parliament of 1484 and, by looked at, I mean traced who they really were, not whether they were an 'esquire' or a 'leading rebel' or whether, because they'd served, Edward they must have loved him and by default his children. When I've finished the lot I'll upload my data spreadsheets, which group them, and also follow them through to exile (perhaps) and to Bosworth. At first it was a bit like cracking enigma ; but with each one it becomes more clear.

So here are the results so far:

Our rebels fall into three groups:

a. Woodville supporters - no surprise there

b. old Lancaster from 'De Vere' land around Oxfordshire and Northants

c. the grudge brigade in the South West - important families punished and subject to attainder by the House of York (yes they really loved Edward!). In these I'll include MB, HT, Buckingham. You might call them old Lancaster too. The South West is traditional Lancaster territory - MOA chose to land there. Even more than the North East it's a very closed community - intermarriage outside the area is rare. Both the Woodvilles (through Joan Bittlesgate) and MB have strong influence there. Upset my friend, he's also my cousin etc. etc. That's part of the clue to cracking the code, and repercussions from Tewkesbury also feature.

So no real surprises. It doesn't take a master strategist to envisage a Woodville amnesty - support our new young king and you can have your lands and Offices back. Richard was part of the regime that took them, you'll never be restored to favour with him. Look at his motto!

But what about the non-barking dogs?

a. no unique Buckingham supporters (in fact hard to find anyone north of about Northants)

b. no idealists shouting we must restore dear Edward's sons (Sorry!!)

c. no real sign of MB mobilising her internal networks which, as we know, are huge. Yes she used Reggie Bray and her messengers but perhaps at this stage she was keeping her powder dry?

d. no intervention by the clergy. Every book that claims that Richard seized the Crown doesn't explain how he got the pre-contract story by the clergy when his great-nephew couldn't get his divorce through! Surely someone would have gone running to the Pope?

e. No Bretons - sorry David, I did look

f. No hoards rushing to join HT - I make it about a dozen so far, and the usual brigade

g. Hardline Lancaster in the SW who just didn't participate - why not, too risky?

As for 'ruthless Richard', well he was mighty lenient with this lot. Very few executions and a lot of the attainders later reversed. Horrox criticises him for imposing Halnath Mauleverer as Sheriff of Cornwall.

He was married to a Carminowe and had moved there for years! Yet he still made it back to Bosworth.

Finally there is one intriguing little clutch of ex-Clarence supporters. Still working on that.

I'd also like to express my thanks to a couple of things. One is the marvellous website www.historyofparliamentonline.org which really does explain people's friendships and views as well as their offices and relationships, and secondly the hundreds of people on the web researching their own family history. The level of debate is now very impressive. It must have been nigh on impossible to do this so fast without such resources even though of course you do have to test them.

Back to work:) H

What seemed like an age ago I promised to trace each 1483 rebel because I'm so tired of historian after historian claiming that these rebellions were all to do with dislike of Richard's so-called usurpation and the popular will to put Edward's sons back on the throne. Or with north/south divides (Horrox).

I've now looked at some 80% of the 200-odd rebels named in the Parliament of 1484 and, by looked at, I mean traced who they really were, not whether they were an 'esquire' or a 'leading rebel' or whether, because they'd served, Edward they must have loved him and by default his children. When I've finished the lot I'll upload my data spreadsheets, which group them, and also follow them through to exile (perhaps) and to Bosworth. At first it was a bit like cracking enigma; but with each one it becomes more clear.

So here are the results so far:

Our rebels fall into three groups:

a. Woodville supporters - no surprise there

b. old Lancaster from 'De Vere' land around Oxfordshire and Northants

c. the grudge brigade in the South West - important families punished and subject to attainder by the House of York (yes they really loved Edward!). In these I'll include MB, HT, Buckingham. You might call them old Lancaster too. The South West is traditional Lancaster territory - MOA chose to land there. Even more than the North East it's a very closed community - intermarriage outside the area is rare. Both the Woodvilles (through Joan Bittlesgate) and MB have strong influence there. Upset my friend, he's also my cousin etc. etc. That's part of the clue to cracking the code, and repercussions from Tewkesbury also feature.

So no real surprises. It doesn't take a master strategist to envisage a Woodville amnesty - support our new young king and you can have your lands and Offices back. Richard was part of the regime that took them, you'll never be restored to favour with him. Look at his motto!

But what about the non-barking dogs?

a. no unique Buckingham supporters (in fact hard to find anyone north of about Northants)

b. no idealists shouting we must restore dear Edward's sons (Sorry!!)

c. no real sign of MB mobilising her internal networks which, as we know, are huge. Yes she used Reggie Bray and her messengers but perhaps at this stage she was keeping her powder dry?

d. no intervention by the clergy. Every book that claims that Richard seized the Crown doesn't explain how he got the pre-contract story by the clergy when his great-nephew couldn't get his divorce through! Surely someone would have gone running to the Pope?

e. No Bretons - sorry David, I did look

f. No hoards rushing to join HT - I make it about a dozen so far, and the usual brigade

g. Hardline Lancaster in the SW who just didn't participate - why not, too risky?

As for 'ruthless Richard', well he was mighty lenient with this lot. Very few executions and a lot of the attainders later reversed. Horrox criticises him for imposing Halnath Mauleverer as Sheriff of Cornwall.

He was married to a Carminowe and had moved there for years! Yet he still made it back to Bosworth.

Finally there is one intriguing little clutch of ex-Clarence supporters. Still working on that.

I'd also like to express my thanks to a couple of things. One is the marvellous website www.historyofparliamentonline.org which really does explain people's friendships and views as well as their offices and relationships, and secondly the hundreds of people on the web researching their own family history. The level of debate is now very impressive. It must have been nigh on impossible to do this so fast without such resources even though of course you do have to test them.

Back to work:) H

"I'd also like to express my thanks to a couple of things. One is the marvellous website www.historyofparliamentonline.org which really does explain people's friendships and views as well as their offices and relationships"

Carol responds:

First, thanks for your interesting summary of your findings. You really should submit an article to the Ricardian--the myth that all of England was up in arms against the murdering usurper needs to be toppled.

But regarding historyofparliamentonline: Where is the 1422-1508 volume? The very one we need is the one that's missing!

Carol

Hi Hilary,

The hapless Sheriff sent to winkle Oxford out of St Michael's Mount was Sir John Arundell of Lanherne. He was replaced by John Fortescue, esquire. I see the claim that Edward then made Richard High Sheriff of Cornwall comes from Polwhele's 'The Civil and Military History of Cornwall', vol 1. It sounds extremely fishy to me since this was an office normally reserved for the gentry class and Richard didn't have any real links with the county.

Oxford got to St. Michael's Mount by sea, and took the place by some subterfuge of which we don't have the details. I personally think he may have got blown off course. It was Bodrugan who got him out in the end. Oxford doesn't seem to have benefited from any local support, and unfortunately for him found that Edward hadn't kept the Mount properly victualled.

So far as I'm aware we have no proof that Clarence was still in touch with Louis, but after Oxford took the Mount and found himself short of supplies he sent his brother Sir Richard de Vere to Louis to beg for supplies, and he showed Louis the seals of various important folks who had sworn support, and those included a duke.

By the by, Warwick was never attainted but his estates were confiscated anyway which, given his acknowledged treason seems to have been legal. He and Montagu were, however, outlawed during the course of 1472-3 by the subterfuge of having them summoned to appear before county sheriffs, and then outlawed when they failed to show up.

Marie