Baldrick, René of Anjou and conspiracy theories
Baldrick, René of Anjou and conspiracy theories
2005-02-06 20:31:50
Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30 minutes
because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw, which
was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round up
the usual suspects.
Anyway, I'd already heard the theory that the Merovingians were
supposed to be descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. What I'm not
clear about is whether this is totally a twentieth century theory or
whether it was believed earlier in history.
I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by the
Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed. Can
anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
descendants in our period?
I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II (don't
know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
Thanks in advance for your help. Hope this post isn't too OT. Also
hope that nobody is offended by me mentioning it.
Joanne
Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30 minutes
because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw, which
was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round up
the usual suspects.
Anyway, I'd already heard the theory that the Merovingians were
supposed to be descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. What I'm not
clear about is whether this is totally a twentieth century theory or
whether it was believed earlier in history.
I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by the
Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed. Can
anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
descendants in our period?
I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II (don't
know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
Thanks in advance for your help. Hope this post isn't too OT. Also
hope that nobody is offended by me mentioning it.
Joanne
Re: Baldrick, René of Anjou and conspiracy theories
2005-02-07 00:10:47
--- In , "jotwo2003"
<jsummerill@s...> wrote:
>
> Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
> Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
> understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30
minutes
> because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw,
which
> was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round
up
> the usual suspects.
>
> Anyway, I'd already heard the theory that the Merovingians were
> supposed to be descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. What I'm
not
> clear about is whether this is totally a twentieth century theory
or
> whether it was believed earlier in history.
>
> I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
> involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
> bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
> the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
> cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by
the
> Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed.
Can
> anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
> the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
>
> Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
> descendants in our period?
>
> I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
> Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
> Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
> descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II
(don't
> know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
>
> Thanks in advance for your help. Hope this post isn't too OT.
Also
> hope that nobody is offended by me mentioning it.
>
> Joanne
I'm still awating time to read my copy of the Da Vinci Code, but
since I'm too thick-skinened to mind being thought a loony, I thought
I'd just suggest that anyone with access to the Paston Letters might
do with looking up Babington in the index. They will find a letter to
John Paston (a member of the ?Inner Temple) from an anonymous writer
who signs himself with a strange code cipher, claiming to be a fellow
member of the Order of the Temple of Sion, and naming the head of the
Order as one Sir John Babington.
From the little I've gleaned of the Babingtons, this was Sir J. of
Dethick, and either he or his son John (sorry, memory fails) died
fighting for richard at Bosworth, leading to attainder and takeover
by rival junior branch which had supported HT. But in the next
century a Babington (of the senior line, I think, but I need to
check) bought the old Templar property of Temple Rothley, Leics, and
built a grand mansion (now a hotel) incorporating the ruins of the
Templar religious buildings. . . .
Of course, the genuineness of the pedigree of these secret societies,
and secret beliefs, is a different question from the truth of any
beliefs they may have held about Christ's offspring and their own
bloodline. It actually wouldn't be surprising if the first pagan
rulers to convert, who had up till then claimed descent from pagan
gods, suddenly 'acquired' for themselves a similar Christian
pedigree. The Merovingian line is often concentrated on, but I get
the feeling that descent from the ancient British line of Constantine
(or more properly, his mother Helena, then believed to have been a
British princess) may have been equally isignificant.
Somewhere in Malory there is a statement that Sir Galahad was of the
ninth generation in direct descent from Christ. This in turn goes
back to his French source, forget which one.
An interesting take on what might have been going on in the minds of
some of our main players.
Now you'll all think I'm crazy, but the Paston letter is genuine.
Gairdner considered it a joke letter, but if so it's odd that happens
to be a 'joke' which was later come up with quite independently by
20th century writers (none of whom have, to my knowledge, referred to
the Paston letter, though I stand to be corrected).
It's a weird world we live in.
Marie
<jsummerill@s...> wrote:
>
> Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
> Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
> understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30
minutes
> because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw,
which
> was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round
up
> the usual suspects.
>
> Anyway, I'd already heard the theory that the Merovingians were
> supposed to be descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. What I'm
not
> clear about is whether this is totally a twentieth century theory
or
> whether it was believed earlier in history.
>
> I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
> involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
> bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
> the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
> cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by
the
> Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed.
Can
> anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
> the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
>
> Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
> descendants in our period?
>
> I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
> Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
> Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
> descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II
(don't
> know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
>
> Thanks in advance for your help. Hope this post isn't too OT.
Also
> hope that nobody is offended by me mentioning it.
>
> Joanne
I'm still awating time to read my copy of the Da Vinci Code, but
since I'm too thick-skinened to mind being thought a loony, I thought
I'd just suggest that anyone with access to the Paston Letters might
do with looking up Babington in the index. They will find a letter to
John Paston (a member of the ?Inner Temple) from an anonymous writer
who signs himself with a strange code cipher, claiming to be a fellow
member of the Order of the Temple of Sion, and naming the head of the
Order as one Sir John Babington.
From the little I've gleaned of the Babingtons, this was Sir J. of
Dethick, and either he or his son John (sorry, memory fails) died
fighting for richard at Bosworth, leading to attainder and takeover
by rival junior branch which had supported HT. But in the next
century a Babington (of the senior line, I think, but I need to
check) bought the old Templar property of Temple Rothley, Leics, and
built a grand mansion (now a hotel) incorporating the ruins of the
Templar religious buildings. . . .
Of course, the genuineness of the pedigree of these secret societies,
and secret beliefs, is a different question from the truth of any
beliefs they may have held about Christ's offspring and their own
bloodline. It actually wouldn't be surprising if the first pagan
rulers to convert, who had up till then claimed descent from pagan
gods, suddenly 'acquired' for themselves a similar Christian
pedigree. The Merovingian line is often concentrated on, but I get
the feeling that descent from the ancient British line of Constantine
(or more properly, his mother Helena, then believed to have been a
British princess) may have been equally isignificant.
Somewhere in Malory there is a statement that Sir Galahad was of the
ninth generation in direct descent from Christ. This in turn goes
back to his French source, forget which one.
An interesting take on what might have been going on in the minds of
some of our main players.
Now you'll all think I'm crazy, but the Paston letter is genuine.
Gairdner considered it a joke letter, but if so it's odd that happens
to be a 'joke' which was later come up with quite independently by
20th century writers (none of whom have, to my knowledge, referred to
the Paston letter, though I stand to be corrected).
It's a weird world we live in.
Marie
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Baldrick, René of Anjou and conspi
2005-02-07 09:34:01
jotwo2003 <jsummerill@...> wrote:
Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30 minutes
because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw, which
was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round up
the usual suspects.
I didn't watch it as (a) I find Tony Robinson profoundly irritating (a bit awkward, as he fronts some programmes which could be quite interesting - the problem is that my TV is in grave danger of having brick hurled through it whenever he appears) and (b) I read 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail' a long time ago and carried out my own debunking exercise.
I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by the
Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed. Can
anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
Rene of Anjou is supposed to have been one of the 'secret' Templar Grand Masters after the suppression of the Order by Philip IV. He may well also have been in the 'blood line' from Christ and Mary Magdalene as, IIRC, it went through the Dukes of Lorraine to the Dukes of Guise (from whom Mary Queen of Scots was descended via her mother) - it is a good 10 years since I read the book and I can't remember all the details. Rene was Duke of Lorraine in right of his first wife, so if he wasn't directly in the blood line, then Margaret would have been.
Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
descendants in our period?
I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II (don't
know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
Charles II acknowledged 14 bastards and put several of them in the House of Lords. The Spencers are indeed descended from one of them. However, Prince Charles is of royal Stewart/Stuart descent anyway, via Sophia of Hanover, who was a granddaughter of James VI and I.
Ann
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Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30 minutes
because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw, which
was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round up
the usual suspects.
I didn't watch it as (a) I find Tony Robinson profoundly irritating (a bit awkward, as he fronts some programmes which could be quite interesting - the problem is that my TV is in grave danger of having brick hurled through it whenever he appears) and (b) I read 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail' a long time ago and carried out my own debunking exercise.
I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by the
Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed. Can
anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
Rene of Anjou is supposed to have been one of the 'secret' Templar Grand Masters after the suppression of the Order by Philip IV. He may well also have been in the 'blood line' from Christ and Mary Magdalene as, IIRC, it went through the Dukes of Lorraine to the Dukes of Guise (from whom Mary Queen of Scots was descended via her mother) - it is a good 10 years since I read the book and I can't remember all the details. Rene was Duke of Lorraine in right of his first wife, so if he wasn't directly in the blood line, then Margaret would have been.
Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
descendants in our period?
I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II (don't
know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
Charles II acknowledged 14 bastards and put several of them in the House of Lords. The Spencers are indeed descended from one of them. However, Prince Charles is of royal Stewart/Stuart descent anyway, via Sophia of Hanover, who was a granddaughter of James VI and I.
Ann
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Baldrick, René of Anjou and conspi
2005-02-07 09:34:03
jotwo2003 <jsummerill@...> wrote:
Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30 minutes
because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw, which
was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round up
the usual suspects.
I didn't watch it as (a) I find Tony Robinson profoundly irritating (a bit awkward, as he fronts some programmes which could be quite interesting - the problem is that my TV is in grave danger of having brick hurled through it whenever he appears) and (b) I read 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail' a long time ago and carried out my own debunking exercise.
I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by the
Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed. Can
anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
Rene of Anjou is supposed to have been one of the 'secret' Templar Grand Masters after the suppression of the Order by Philip IV. He may well also have been in the 'blood line' from Christ and Mary Magdalene as, IIRC, it went through the Dukes of Lorraine to the Dukes of Guise (from whom Mary Queen of Scots was descended via her mother) - it is a good 10 years since I read the book and I can't remember all the details. Rene was Duke of Lorraine in right of his first wife, so if he wasn't directly in the blood line, then Margaret would have been.
Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
descendants in our period?
I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II (don't
know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
Charles II acknowledged 14 bastards and put several of them in the House of Lords. The Spencers are indeed descended from one of them. However, Prince Charles is of royal Stewart/Stuart descent anyway, via Sophia of Hanover, who was a granddaughter of James VI and I.
Ann
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group//
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code. I
understand that he debunked it in the end. I only watched 30 minutes
because I didn't have time to watch 2 hours. From what I saw, which
was about the Cathars and the Templars, it seemed a case of round up
the usual suspects.
I didn't watch it as (a) I find Tony Robinson profoundly irritating (a bit awkward, as he fronts some programmes which could be quite interesting - the problem is that my TV is in grave danger of having brick hurled through it whenever he appears) and (b) I read 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail' a long time ago and carried out my own debunking exercise.
I'm sure I've read that René of Anjou, Margaret's father, was
involved somewhere. Was Margaret meant to be in the alleged
bloodline? Or was it something to do with René being a guardian of
the secret? I'm sure I read once that he invented the symbol of
cross surrounded by roses, or Rosy Cross, which was later used by the
Rosicrucians, an occult order that may or may not have existed. Can
anybody illuminate me? (Yes, that is a deliberate, dreadful pun on
the Illuminati, another alleged occult lodge.)
Rene of Anjou is supposed to have been one of the 'secret' Templar Grand Masters after the suppression of the Order by Philip IV. He may well also have been in the 'blood line' from Christ and Mary Magdalene as, IIRC, it went through the Dukes of Lorraine to the Dukes of Guise (from whom Mary Queen of Scots was descended via her mother) - it is a good 10 years since I read the book and I can't remember all the details. Rene was Duke of Lorraine in right of his first wife, so if he wasn't directly in the blood line, then Margaret would have been.
Anyway, the Jesus' bloodline theory aside, who were the Merovingian
descendants in our period?
I think I read that the Stewarts were supposed to be in the
Merovingian line of descent. I read too that Princes William and
Harry have royal Stewart blood through Diana, as the Spencers were
descended from one of the illegitimate offspring of Charles II (don't
know which one, but I gather there are plenty to choose from).
Charles II acknowledged 14 bastards and put several of them in the House of Lords. The Spencers are indeed descended from one of them. However, Prince Charles is of royal Stewart/Stuart descent anyway, via Sophia of Hanover, who was a granddaughter of James VI and I.
Ann
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Baldrick, René of Anjou and conspi
2005-02-07 13:33:39
I found the programme terribly dull.
I am afraid all Tony Robinson's films are now about Tony Robinson more
than anything else.
I noticed at the end he is also credited with Editing. As an editor
myself I understood why what should have been a fascinating programme,
was so boring.
The ego has landed with a vengeance!
It took a talent like Clint Eastwood a couple of decades before he
learned how to edit himself properly, and Branagh's best film is the
one he isn't in!
He, imo, ruined the films on Macbeth and Richard III he made by the
intrusion of his persona. He isn't an historian or an academic, but an
actor, one I would say with a limited repetory, and when presenting, it
shows!
Paul
On Feb 6, 2005, at 20:31, jotwo2003 wrote:
> Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
> Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code
I am afraid all Tony Robinson's films are now about Tony Robinson more
than anything else.
I noticed at the end he is also credited with Editing. As an editor
myself I understood why what should have been a fascinating programme,
was so boring.
The ego has landed with a vengeance!
It took a talent like Clint Eastwood a couple of decades before he
learned how to edit himself properly, and Branagh's best film is the
one he isn't in!
He, imo, ruined the films on Macbeth and Richard III he made by the
intrusion of his persona. He isn't an historian or an academic, but an
actor, one I would say with a limited repetory, and when presenting, it
shows!
Paul
On Feb 6, 2005, at 20:31, jotwo2003 wrote:
> Did anyone watch Baldrick's quest for the Holy Grail? AKA Tony
> Robinson's documentary about cracking the Da Vinci Code
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