History's Biggest Fibs

A belated Happy New Year all!

Hope you've put tomorrow night in your diaries if you're in the UK
BBC - British History's Biggest Fibs With Lucy Worsley - Media Centre BBC - British History's Biggest Fibs With Lucy Worsley -... Lucy Worsley explores how the history of three of Britain's founding national events are in fact carefully crafted mythologies. View on www.bbc.co.uk Preview by Yahoo
I have high hopes. I love Lucy. David Starkey must be suffering from angst. H

I wonder when this will get to the U.S.?

marshjensen@...

On Wednesday, January 25, 2017, hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:

A belated Happy New Year all!

Hope you've put tomorrow night in your diaries if you're in the UK
BBC - British History's Biggest Fibs With Lucy Worsley - Media Centre BBC - British History's Biggest Fibs With Lucy Worsley -... Lucy Worsley explores how the history of three of Britain's founding national events are in fact carefully crafted mythologies. View on www.bbc.co.uk Preview by Yahoo
I have high hopes. I love Lucy. David Starkey must be suffering from angst. H

Well, drat! Even if I could afford to get on a plane, by the time I got there, I'd miss it! Can't wait for the group's reviews.
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
http://amzn.to/1VvKiHV

It certainly sounds interesting but, as with Nance, between the time it would take to get there and the cost, I'll have to hope a DVD of the program pops up at the BBC's internet shop! There is BBC America, but I sort of doubt it'll appear  too British, doncherknow? Doug
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Doug wrote:

"It certainly sounds interesting but, as with Nance, between the time it would take to get there and the cost, I'll have to hope a DVD of the program pops up at the BBC's internet shop! There is BBC America, but I sort of doubt it'll appear  too British, doncherknow?"
Carol responds:

I checked the schedule for Thursday--it's not there. They're showing some sort of "Star Trek" marathon instead. I did notice something about Evil King Wichard in the write-up, though. Doesn't sound promising unless "Wichard" is the Tudor version she's (rightly) calling a lie.

Carol

Lucy has a lisp Carol, it's probably a pun on that! I have recorded it but have yet to watch it. It was only on BBC Four HD. The trailer showed her looking at the De la Pole family tree roll (forget what it's called) so I guess it will be about Tudor's false claim to the throne. I'll let you know. H

From: "justcarol67@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 2:44
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs




Doug wrote:

"It certainly sounds interesting but, as with Nance, between the time it would take to get there and the cost, I'll have to hope a DVD of the program pops up at the BBC's internet shop! There is BBC America, but I sort of doubt it'll appear  too British, doncherknow?"
Carol responds:

I checked the schedule for Thursday--it's not there. They're showing some sort of "Star Trek" marathon instead. I did notice something about Evil King Wichard in the write-up, though. Doesn't sound promising unless "Wichard" is the Tudor version she's (rightly) calling a lie.

Carol

A rhotacism, actually.

From: [mailto: ]
Sent: 27 January 2017 09:30
To:
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] History's Biggest Fibs

Lucy has a lisp Carol, it's probably a pun on that! I have recorded it but have yet to watch it. It was only on BBC Four HD. The trailer showed her looking at the De la Pole family tree roll (forget what it's called) so I guess it will be about Tudor's false claim to the throne. I'll let you know. H

From: " justcarol67@... []" < >
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 2:44
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] History's Biggest Fibs

Doug wrote:

"It certainly sounds interesting but, as with Nance, between the time it would take to get there and the cost, I’ll have to hope a DVD of the program pops up at the BBC’s internet shop! There is BBC America, but I sort of doubt it’ll appear – too British, doncherknow?"

Carol responds:

I checked the schedule for Thursday--it's not there. They're showing some sort of "Star Trek" marathon instead. I did notice something about Evil King Wichard in the write-up, though. Doesn't sound promising unless "Wichard" is the Tudor version she's (rightly) calling a lie.

Carol

Christopher Stevens reviews last night's TV
Christopher Stevens reviews last night's TV Historian Dr Lucy Worsley dressed up as Elizabeth I for British History's Biggest Fibs on BBC4 to explore my...
Well this is what you get if you try to take history to the masses - the Daily Mail saying that Richard had a hump because of his skeleton. Will the masses (and reporters) ever understand scoliosis? But she tried to do a good job and it is the Daily Mail!! H

From: "Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 9:30
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs

Lucy has a lisp Carol, it's probably a pun on that! I have recorded it but have yet to watch it. It was only on BBC Four HD. The trailer showed her looking at the De la Pole family tree roll (forget what it's called) so I guess it will be about Tudor's false claim to the throne. I'll let you know. H

From: "justcarol67@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 2:44
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs




Doug wrote:

"It certainly sounds interesting but, as with Nance, between the time it would take to get there and the cost, I'll have to hope a DVD of the program pops up at the BBC's internet shop! There is BBC America, but I sort of doubt it'll appear  too British, doncherknow?"
Carol responds:

I checked the schedule for Thursday--it's not there. They're showing some sort of "Star Trek" marathon instead. I did notice something about Evil King Wichard in the write-up, though. Doesn't sound promising unless "Wichard" is the Tudor version she's (rightly) calling a lie.

Carol

Hilary wrote: Lucy has a lisp Carol, it's probably a pun on that! I have recorded it but have yet to watch it. It was only on BBC Four HD. The trailer showed her looking at the De la Pole family tree roll (forget what it's called) so I guess it will be about Tudor's false claim to the throne. I'll let you know. Doug here: Just what sort of programming is on BBC 4? For that matter, just how many BBC's are there? FWIW, the last time I was in the UK, there was only BBC, BBC 2, ITV and Channel 4, with BBC 2 being a lot of sports. As best I can tell, most of the content of BBC America is from BBC 1(?), with the rest being recycled television from here. For those outside the UK, I can suggest www.acornonline.com as a source for DVD's of UK television programs not limited to the BBC (plus other items, many of a Britishy cast). Doug who's definitely showing his age listing only four UK channels...
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Actually Lucy did Richard proud. One of the best and least biased accounts I've seen.

Jess From: Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []
Sent: 27/01/2017 10:00
To:
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs

Christopher Stevens reviews last night's TV
Christopher Stevens reviews last night's TV Historian Dr Lucy Worsley dressed up as Elizabeth I for British History's Biggest Fibs on BBC4 to explore my...
Well this is what you get if you try to take history to the masses - the Daily Mail saying that Richard had a hump because of his skeleton. Will the masses (and reporters) ever understand scoliosis? But she tried to do a good job and it is the Daily Mail!! H

From: "Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 9:30
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs

Lucy has a lisp Carol, it's probably a pun on that! I have recorded it but have yet to watch it. It was only on BBC Four HD. The trailer showed her looking at the De la Pole family tree roll (forget what it's called) so I guess it will be about Tudor's false claim to the throne. I'll let you know. H

From: "justcarol67@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 2:44
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs




Doug wrote:

"It certainly sounds interesting but, as with Nance, between the time it would take to get there and the cost, I'll have to hope a DVD of the program pops up at the BBC's internet shop! There is BBC America, but I sort of doubt it'll appear  too British, doncherknow?"
Carol responds:

I checked the schedule for Thursday--it's not there. They're showing some sort of "Star Trek" marathon instead. I did notice something about Evil King Wichard in the write-up, though. Doesn't sound promising unless "Wichard" is the Tudor version she's (rightly) calling a lie.

Carol

[The entire original message is not included.]

Thanks for the link (which didn't work directly, as my computer claimed it was a faulty link) - it got me to the Daily Mail. Interesting - sorry I missed it - but Christopher certainly has a skewed sense of anatomy and have to admit the smarmy remark did cause a cringe. Somebody send him a clip of Dom Smee, please!
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
http://amzn.to/1VvKiHV

I have just watched it and agree with Jess. It was excellent. It's so difficult to support Richard without being classified a novelist or loon and Lucy managed it very subtly.
Doug I agree. I don't know what is what. It took a lot of ferreting to find it. I come from the days when my dad refused to subscribe to ITV because it had adverts and colour well .... I had to go to my friend's house to watch the Shadow of the Tower. James Maxwell, still the best HT by a mile. H
From: "'Nance Crawford' Nance@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 22:04
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs

Thanks for the link (which didn't work directly, as my computer claimed it was a faulty link) - it got me to the Daily Mail. Interesting - sorry I missed it - but Christopher certainly has a skewed sense of anatomy and have to admit the smarmy remark did cause a cringe. Somebody send him a clip of Dom Smee, please!
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
http://amzn.to/1VvKiHV

For those of you who can't get it yet here's a very short summary:
She said:
HT was in no way in line for the throne - he was descended from a Welsh servant (no mention of the Beaufort link)He killed the rightful kingThe Tudor Rose was one of history's greatest marketing ploys invented by him and even placed in Edward IV's booksTo please him folks went out of their way to vilify Richard - hence John Rous's two descriptions one before and one after his death. No mention of the sainted More.Shakespeare took it a stage further because he was working when folks were getting jittery about Elizabeth's old age and lack of successor. The Stuarts went on to embrace it because it legitimised them as wellBecause of that they put the bones in the urn - the third set to be found in the TowerThe Society has been active in restoring Richard's reputation and he still has more followers than the HT Society - brief appearance of their rep with strange little statue against Richard's statue in Leicester.
The Wars of the Roses:
Had as good as been invented by the Victorians who saw the fifteenth century as a 'dark time'. Endorsed by Helen CastorDespite the carnage of Towton, there were only about seven more skirmishes that could be classed as battles and long periods of peaceSir Walter Scot had not helped by also portraying them as a sort of Dark Ages
I reckon she was very clever in remaining supposedly neutral whilst getting the point over. Pity she didn't clarify the scoliosis when the skeleton was showed at the end. H

From: "'Nance Crawford' Nance@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 22:04
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs

Thanks for the link (which didn't work directly, as my computer claimed it was a faulty link) - it got me to the Daily Mail. Interesting - sorry I missed it - but Christopher certainly has a skewed sense of anatomy and have to admit the smarmy remark did cause a cringe. Somebody send him a clip of Dom Smee, please!
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
http://amzn.to/1VvKiHV

Sounds like an excellent program! Hope it will be available in North America. I can say the Tudorist point of view seems alive and well, judging from my recent tours of Windsor Castle and the Tower of London. Although there was a guide in St. George's Chapel who professed to be a Ricardian. I think her first name was Loretta (unfortunately I forget her last name).

Johanne

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On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 5:32 AM -0400, "Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []" <> wrote:

For those of you who can't get it yet here's a very short summary:
She said:
HT was in no way in line for the throne - he was descended from a Welsh servant (no mention of the Beaufort link) He killed the rightful king The Tudor Rose was one of history's greatest marketing ploys invented by him and even placed in Edward IV's books To please him folks went out of their way to vilify Richard - hence John Rous's two descriptions one before and one after his death. No mention of the sainted More. Shakespeare took it a stage further because he was working when folks were getting jittery about Elizabeth's old age and lack of successor. The Stuarts went on to embrace it because it legitimised them as well Because of that they put the bones in the urn - the third set to be found in the Tower The Society has been active in restoring Richard's reputation and he still has more followers than the HT Society - brief appearance of their rep with strange little statue against Richard's statue in Leicester.
The Wars of the Roses:
Had as good as been invented by the Victorians who saw the fifteenth century as a 'dark time'. Endorsed by Helen Castor Despite the carnage of Towton, there were only about seven more skirmishes that could be classed as battles and long periods of peace Sir Walter Scot had not helped by also portraying them as a sort of Dark Ages
I reckon she was very clever in remaining supposedly neutral whilst getting the point over. Pity she didn't clarify the scoliosis when the skeleton was showed at the end. H

From: "'Nance Crawford' Nance@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2017, 22:04
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} History's Biggest Fibs

Thanks for the link (which didn't work directly, as my computer claimed it was a faulty link) - it got me to the Daily Mail. Interesting - sorry I missed it - but Christopher certainly has a skewed sense of anatomy and have to admit the smarmy remark did cause a cringe. Somebody send him a clip of Dom Smee, please!
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
http://amzn.to/1VvKiHV

It was also too bad they didn't talk to the Richard III Society as well as the Henry Tudor Society. And the lack of clarity about Richard's scoliosis was a very missed opportunity. Not that I've seen it yet either!
Sheilah

I reckon the last thing Lucy wanted to do was to talk to either Society. The HT guy wasn't really there to put the case for Henry and only wielded the very small statue to prove both sides have a 'fan club' on Facebook. In fact the coverage of Richard's statue and very beautiful tomb said it all. But once you stray into bias, as a historian you leave yourself open to attack - particularly women historians who are always accused of being emotional if they favour Richard. In fact it's a programme which should have been aired decades' ago but nobody was brave enough to do it.
I agree entirely with you point about scoliosis. Trouble is that the very good programme with Dominic Smee was probably only watched by people like us. It's much more exciting to talk about hunchbacks. It's something where the Society could play a bigger role in publicising the truth of the condition. In fact I hope they're writing to Lucy to thank her and to get her to point it out in her blogs. H

From: "smoc9876@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 29 January 2017, 13:36
Subject: Re: History's Biggest Fibs

It was also too bad they didn't talk to the Richard III Society as well as the Henry Tudor Society. And the lack of clarity about Richard's scoliosis was a very missed opportunity. Not that I've seen it yet either!
Sheilah

Thanks, Hillary, for the quick rundown.
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
http://amzn.to/1VvKiHV