Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

Anyone who is as dismayed as I am that Shakespeare's Richard lll - 'Something Wicked This Way Limps' - by the Antic Disposition Theatre Company -is being staged in Leicester Cathedral in July may like to email Leicester Cathedral to let them know of their feelings. After a false start - Richard Van Allen a member of the Executive Society and spokesman for the Society gave the false impression to the Guardian that the Society were not really fussed and that although 'they were rather surprised - but still it might be interesting', the Society did give out a statement condemning it as have the Looking For Richard group spokeswoman Phillipa Langley.
IMHO its deplorable and fuels those who objected to Leicester Cathedral being the burying place of Richard. I was not one of those as I was just relieved he had been found but I must say this turn of events is causing me second thoughts.
Please therefore if you agree with me, and many others, please do email LC to let them know. Who knows it may have the desired effect.

You know, it is time to put this little Shakespeare Ian drama in the grave. Perhaps protestors peacefully outside the venue?  This is awful.email  may be unsuccessful. 
On May 8, 2017 12:27 PM, "cherryripe.eileenb@... []" <> wrote:
 

Anyone who is as dismayed as I am that Shakespeare's Richard lll - 'Something Wicked This Way Limps' -  by the Antic Disposition Theatre Company -is being staged in Leicester Cathedral in July may like to email Leicester Cathedral to let them know of their feelings.  After a false start - Richard Van Allen a member of the Executive Society and spokesman for the Society gave the false impression to the Guardian that the Society were not really fussed and that although  'they were rather surprised - but still it might be interesting', the Society did give out a statement condemning it as have the Looking For Richard group spokeswoman Phillipa Langley.  
IMHO its deplorable and fuels those who objected to Leicester Cathedral being the burying place of Richard.  I was not one of those as I was just relieved he had been found but I must say this turn of events is causing me second thoughts.
Please therefore if you agree with me, and many others, please do email LC to let them know.  Who knows it may have the desired effect.

[email protected] is the email of the theatre. Email campaigns can work if you can get publicity.
On May 8, 2017 12:27 PM, "cherryripe.eileenb@... []" <> wrote:
 

Anyone who is as dismayed as I am that Shakespeare's Richard lll - 'Something Wicked This Way Limps' -  by the Antic Disposition Theatre Company -is being staged in Leicester Cathedral in July may like to email Leicester Cathedral to let them know of their feelings.  After a false start - Richard Van Allen a member of the Executive Society and spokesman for the Society gave the false impression to the Guardian that the Society were not really fussed and that although  'they were rather surprised - but still it might be interesting', the Society did give out a statement condemning it as have the Looking For Richard group spokeswoman Phillipa Langley.  
IMHO its deplorable and fuels those who objected to Leicester Cathedral being the burying place of Richard.  I was not one of those as I was just relieved he had been found but I must say this turn of events is causing me second thoughts.
Please therefore if you agree with me, and many others, please do email LC to let them know.  Who knows it may have the desired effect.

Ha! Buy up all the tickets so no one shows up! Iudt say this is really nasty. Perhaps Richard's sprit can turn the power off.
On May 8, 2017 1:26 PM, "Karen O" <karenoder4@...> wrote:
[email protected] is the email of the theatre. Email campaigns can work if you can get publicity.
On May 8, 2017 12:27 PM, "cherryripe.eileenb@ googlemail.com []" <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Anyone who is as dismayed as I am that Shakespeare's Richard lll - 'Something Wicked This Way Limps' -  by the Antic Disposition Theatre Company -is being staged in Leicester Cathedral in July may like to email Leicester Cathedral to let them know of their feelings.  After a false start - Richard Van Allen a member of the Executive Society and spokesman for the Society gave the false impression to the Guardian that the Society were not really fussed and that although  'they were rather surprised - but still it might be interesting', the Society did give out a statement condemning it as have the Looking For Richard group spokeswoman Phillipa Langley.  
IMHO its deplorable and fuels those who objected to Leicester Cathedral being the burying place of Richard.  I was not one of those as I was just relieved he had been found but I must say this turn of events is causing me second thoughts.
Please therefore if you agree with me, and many others, please do email LC to let them know.  Who knows it may have the desired effect.

http://www.anticdisposition.co.uk/Here is the web site of the theatre. You can buy tickets online. 
On May 8, 2017 12:27 PM, "cherryripe.eileenb@... []" <> wrote:
 

Anyone who is as dismayed as I am that Shakespeare's Richard lll - 'Something Wicked This Way Limps' -  by the Antic Disposition Theatre Company -is being staged in Leicester Cathedral in July may like to email Leicester Cathedral to let them know of their feelings.  After a false start - Richard Van Allen a member of the Executive Society and spokesman for the Society gave the false impression to the Guardian that the Society were not really fussed and that although  'they were rather surprised - but still it might be interesting', the Society did give out a statement condemning it as have the Looking For Richard group spokeswoman Phillipa Langley.  
IMHO its deplorable and fuels those who objected to Leicester Cathedral being the burying place of Richard.  I was not one of those as I was just relieved he had been found but I must say this turn of events is causing me second thoughts.
Please therefore if you agree with me, and many others, please do email LC to let them know.  Who knows it may have the desired effect.

By the way its no good posting a message on Antic Disposition's Facebook page as they just delete it, although you could just to be annoying. So arrogant and ignorant is their spokesman that he says it will be good to 'open up debate' about Richard. He obviously is oblivious to the fact a debate has been going on for 500 years and the input of his theatre group is not required.

That is infuriating and aggravating. It is too bad that the groups and individuals who do not have an open mind about this, much less acknowledge the long and scientific debate over the remains, get so bent out of shape by those of us who do!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 12:50 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

By the way its no good posting a message on Antic Disposition's Facebook page as they just delete it, although you could just to be annoying. So arrogant and ignorant is their spokesman that he says it will be good to 'open up debate' about Richard. He obviously is oblivious to the fact a debate has been going on for 500 years and the input of his theatre group is not required.

I live about 20 mins from Leicester and haven't met a single person there (or round me) who doesn't love Richard. If you protest you draw the wrong sort of attention.
And I think everyone now accepts that Shakespeare is not history. In fact some actors like Bendedict C actually help him by making more people take an interest in the real Richard. There will always be opposition to anything so let it pass as low key. Eileen I understand your anger but believe me I'm amazed at the supporters I bump into. Honestly. H

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, May 8, 2017, 7:01 pm, Pamela Bain pbain@... [] <> wrote:

That is infuriating and aggravating. It is too bad that the groups and individuals who do not have an open mind about this, much less acknowledge the long and scientific debate over the remains, get so bent out of shape by those of us who do!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 12:50 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

By the way its no good posting a message on Antic Disposition's Facebook page as they just delete it, although you could just to be annoying. So arrogant and ignorant is their spokesman that he says it will be good to 'open up debate' about Richard. He obviously is oblivious to the fact a debate has been going on for 500 years and the input of his theatre group is not required.

Thank you Hilary. I still remain firmly convinced though that this play, in the cathedral, should be stopped. I also think kicking up a fuss is the only way to do it.

Thank you for the update&&

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 1:17 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

I live about 20 mins from Leicester and haven't met a single person there (or round me) who doesn't love Richard. If you protest you draw the wrong sort of attention.

And I think everyone now accepts that Shakespeare is not history. In fact some actors like Bendedict C actually help him by making more people take an interest in the real Richard. There will always be opposition to anything so let it pass as low key. Eileen I understand your anger but believe me I'm amazed at the supporters I bump into. Honestly. H

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, May 8, 2017, 7:01 pm, Pamela Bain pbain@... [] <> wrote:

That is infuriating and aggravating. It is too bad that the groups and individuals who do not have an open mind about this, much less acknowledge the long and scientific debate over the remains, get so bent out of shape by those of us who do!

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 12:50 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

By the way its no good posting a message on Antic Disposition's Facebook page as they just delete it, although you could just to be annoying. So arrogant and ignorant is their spokesman that he says it will be good to 'open up debate' about Richard. He obviously is oblivious to the fact a debate has been going on for 500 years and the input of his theatre group is not required.

Yes..indeed, it lovely to know that Richard has so many supporters...

He does indeed. I hardly ever go out of my way to declare my beliefs but they enthuse. The most unlikely folks. As Paul would say Richard liveth yet H


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On Monday, May 8, 2017, 7:43 pm, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

Yes..indeed, it lovely to know that Richard has so many supporters...

Bless their hearts, everyone of them..
By the way here, hopefully, is a letter to the Guardian about the situation from a lady who posts on one of the forums..well I hope its here..posting links never works well for me..

Grrrrrrrr why does it never do it for me........

I just read the mail of the Society and was appalled. Have the Cathederal authorites gone mad? Have they no sense of decency? I think it is strange to perform a play in a house of worship anyway, but performing that specific play in the place where Richard was buried is disgracefull.
Eva

Eva wrote:

"I just read the mail of the Society and was appalled. Have the Cathederal authorites gone mad? Have they no sense of decency? I think it is strange to perform a play in a house of worship anyway, but performing that specific play in the place where Richard was buried is disgracefull."

Carol responds:

I think the e-mail to members strikes just the right note, but they need (if they haven't done so already) to make their position public in as many places as possible. Perhaps if they write to the cathedral authorities, the authorities will listen. After all, the agreed to and must have supported his reburial in that very place.

Carol

I have registered my disapproval of using the place where the king is buried to perform Shakespeare's morality tale in.I have no objection to the play as such, as now all programmes contain something telling the real story of the king, and as it kick started me with Richard aged 7 when mother took me to see the Olivier film. On way out she asked if I'd enjoyed it. She swears I replied " Yes mummy. But he wasn't like that!"Many of my close friends are actors, and of course I worked with many during my editing career, and after Hamlet Richard is the longest role for an actor the Bard wrote, so is seen as a challenge by most actors.But theatre needs to be separated from reality, and performing the play near where the king lies, is in my mind a sacrilege. Over the road would be too close for me, but inside the cathedral is outrageous.Paul

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Le 8 mai 2017 à 20:48, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> a écrit :

He does indeed. I hardly ever go out of my way to declare my beliefs but they enthuse. The most unlikely folks. As Paul would say Richard liveth yet H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, May 8, 2017, 7:43 pm, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

Yes..indeed, it lovely to know that Richard has so many supporters...

The best actors manage to get you on side and rooting for him in the battle in spite of what he has done earlier in the play. Ind you only two have really succeeded for me, Olivier of course, and Antony Sher who had me in tears during his night before Bosworth scene at Stratford in 1984, the only actor whose voice made me forget Olivier.There is so beautiful poetry, and even scenes here the truth is being told if you care to look. The scene where Margaret reappears for example " they do me wrong and I will not endure it. Who are they that complain unto the king ....I was a pack horse in his great affairs...to royalise his blood I spilt mine own..." etc.But still. Not anywhere near where we thought we had finally laid him to dignified rest.Paul

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Le 8 mai 2017 à 20:55, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> a écrit :

Grrrrrrrr why does it never do it for me........

Ive had a reply from Leicester Cathedral to my email to them. Basically they dont give a damn.

Surely, you're not surprised?

And to whoever mentioned how much the Leicester residents she knows respect Richard, I suggest that they show that love by helping to reign in some of the excesses perpetrated by their church, their town council and their university.

A J

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:06 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
 

Ive had a reply from Leicester Cathedral to my email to them.  Basically they dont give a damn.

One way I might begin is to stop attending church there.
On May 9, 2017 11:04 AM, "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <> wrote:
 

Surely, you're not surprised?

And to whoever mentioned how much the Leicester residents she knows respect Richard, I suggest that they show that love by helping to reign in some of the excesses perpetrated by their church, their town council and their university.

A J

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:06 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@googlemail. com [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ive had a reply from Leicester Cathedral to my email to them.  Basically they dont give a damn.

It was I who said that about Leicestershire and I have no problems with this whatsoever. Everyone knows Shakespeare's play is a great piece of fiction and I bet Richard himself will lie there having a chuckle. Our present day royals have to put up with satire/misinformation - it goes with the job. Only last week Prince Philip was reported to be dead!
The Church of England in Leicestershire is in a bad way - some vicars are looking after up to a dozen churches. These are churches in dire need of repair. So I don't blame the cathedral for putting on a show - all cathedrals are rented out to antique fairs, craft markets etc. It's what they always were, the centre of the community, not monasteries.
The things that make me cross are pseudo-historians who speak with authority churning out the same old rubbish and in that sense Richard really has become a cash cow. And people believe them!
Sorry, but Shakespeare is fiction and everyone knows it. If the funds help keep Richard's burial place in good repair then we shouldn't mind. Sorry again!! H

From: "Karen O karenoder4@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2017, 16:06
Subject: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

One way I might begin is to stop attending church there.
On May 9, 2017 11:04 AM, "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <> wrote:
Surely, you're not surprised?

And to whoever mentioned how much the Leicester residents she knows respect Richard, I suggest that they show that love by helping to reign in some of the excesses perpetrated by their church, their town council and their university.

A J

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:06 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@googlemail. com [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Ive had a reply from Leicester Cathedral to my email to them. Basically they dont give a damn.

I cannot agree with you Hilary, sorry. Why can't the cathedral host the play in their St Martins Centre, if it's so vital to their finances.

A J

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:
 

It was I who said that about Leicestershire and I have no problems with this whatsoever. Everyone knows Shakespeare's play is a great piece of fiction and I bet Richard himself will lie there having a chuckle. Our present day royals have to put up with satire/misinformation - it goes with the job. Only last week Prince Philip was reported to be dead!
The Church of England in Leicestershire is in a bad way - some vicars are looking after up to a dozen churches. These are churches in dire need of repair. So I don't blame the cathedral for putting on a show - all cathedrals are rented out to antique fairs, craft markets etc. It's what they always were, the centre of the community, not monasteries.
The things that make me cross are pseudo-historians who speak with authority churning out the same old rubbish and in that sense Richard really has become a cash cow. And people believe them!
Sorry, but Shakespeare is fiction and everyone knows it. If the funds help keep Richard's burial place in good repair then we shouldn't mind.  Sorry again!!  H 

From: "Karen O karenoder4@... []" <@ yahoogroups.com>
To: @ yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2017, 16:06
Subject: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

  One way I might begin is to stop attending church there.
On May 9, 2017 11:04 AM, "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  Surely, you're not surprised?

And to whoever mentioned how much the Leicester residents she knows respect Richard, I suggest that they show that love by helping to reign in some of the excesses perpetrated by their church, their town council and their university.

A J

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:06 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@googlemail. com [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  Ive had a reply from Leicester Cathedral to my email to them.  Basically they dont give a damn.

Or perhaps another play?

Well I must say I was surprised when they included the price list for the tickets...how thick skinned is that?

Can you post the link again please Eileen.Paul

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Le 9 mai 2017 à 10:54, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> a écrit :

Here is a link to the petition...fingers really crossed here..you know what im like with links..doh.

Paul what to the petition? No I cant. I want someone to do it for me. These link thingies dont do as I want them to..

Ignore me, just got your message and have forwarded it on. Hopefully it arrives.

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 9 mai 2017 à 19:15, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <> a écrit :

Can you post the link again please Eileen.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 9 mai 2017 à 10:54, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> a écrit :

Here is a link to the petition...fingers really crossed here..you know what im like with links..doh.

Hilary wrote: It was I who said that about Leicestershire and I have no problems with this whatsoever. Everyone knows Shakespeare's play is a great piece of fiction and I bet Richard himself will lie there having a chuckle. Our present day royals have to put up with satire/misinformation - it goes with the job. Only last week Prince Philip was reported to be dead! The Church of England in Leicestershire is in a bad way - some vicars are looking after up to a dozen churches. These are churches in dire need of repair. So I don't blame the cathedral for putting on a show - all cathedrals are rented out to antique fairs, craft markets etc. It's what they always were, the centre of the community, not monasteries. The things that make me cross are pseudo-historians who speak with authority churning out the same old rubbish and in that sense Richard really has become a cash cow. And people believe them! Sorry, but Shakespeare is fiction and everyone knows it. If the funds help keep Richard's burial place in good repair then we shouldn't mind. Sorry again!! Doug here: I wondered if it wasn't about raising money and, as you say, Cathedrals were the center of their respective communities and, from what keeps popping up on the BBC's website, various parish churches (even cathedrals) are in dire straits in regards to finances. Perhaps if the Cathedral authorities included a waiver on the program? Something along the lines of Leicester Cathedral recognizes that the title character as depicted in Shakespeare's Richard III is a fiction and does not accurately represent the historical person.? Just a thought. Doug
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Doug there has been much a todo on some facebook pages. People in their droves are furious. Some of them are the ones who argued about Leicester having Richard's remains in the first place. Someone suggested it could have been staged somewhere else in Leicester, anywhere but so close to his remains. There is a large Centre just across the road from the Cathedral. That would be ideal and the Cathedral could still get their pound of flesh, sorry cash. People have been writing letters to newspapers, emailing the Cathedral (as I did), emailing the theatre group, again as I did. But they just delete the messages..craven cowards. From the cathedral I got in response a reply clearly indicating they dont give a flying fig and the show will go on. It just sucks...where is the respect?
This has shaken to the core my belief that the Cathedral did a fine job with Richard's reinterrment - I really do believe it was about the cash now.

What a sensible suggestion! H


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On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 5:13 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@... [] <> wrote:

Hilary wrote: It was I who said that about Leicestershire and I have no problems with this whatsoever. Everyone knows Shakespeare's play is a great piece of fiction and I bet Richard himself will lie there having a chuckle. Our present day royals have to put up with satire/misinformation - it goes with the job. Only last week Prince Philip was reported to be dead! The Church of England in Leicestershire is in a bad way - some vicars are looking after up to a dozen churches. These are churches in dire need of repair. So I don't blame the cathedral for putting on a show - all cathedrals are rented out to antique fairs, craft markets etc. It's what they always were, the centre of the community, not monasteries. The things that make me cross are pseudo-historians who speak with authority churning out the same old rubbish and in that sense Richard really has become a cash cow. And people believe them! Sorry, but Shakespeare is fiction and everyone knows it. If the funds help keep Richard's burial place in good repair then we shouldn't mind. Sorry again!! Doug here: I wondered if it wasn't about raising money and, as you say, Cathedrals were the center of their respective communities and, from what keeps popping up on the BBC's website, various parish churches (even cathedrals) are in dire straits in regards to finances. Perhaps if the Cathedral authorities included a waiver on the program? Something along the lines of Leicester Cathedral recognizes that the title character as depicted in Shakespeare's Richard III is a fiction and does not accurately represent the historical person.? Just a thought. Doug
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Eileen wrote: Doug there has been much a todo on some facebook pages. People in their droves are furious. Some of them are the ones who argued about Leicester having Richard's remains in the first place. Someone suggested it could have been staged somewhere else in Leicester, anywhere but so close to his remains. There is a large Centre just across the road from the Cathedral. That would be ideal and the Cathedral could still get their pound of flesh, sorry cash. People have been writing letters to newspapers, emailing the Cathedral (as I did), emailing the theatre group, again as I did. But they just delete the messages..craven cowards. From the cathedral I got in response a reply clearly indicating they dont give a flying fig and the show will go on. It just sucks...where is the respect? Doug here: It may only be me, but having the play at the Centre and then taking small groups across the street to see the final resting place of the person they'd just seen libeled in such beautiful language would make much more sense. As I said, maybe it's only me... Eileen concluded: This has shaken to the core my belief that the Cathedral did a fine job with Richard's reinterrment - I really do believe it was about the cash now. Doug here: The cash or someone's ego.
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Hilary wrote: What a sensible suggestion! It's a solution that, to me at least, would involve the least disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the Cathedral authorities fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a play. Doug
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Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


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On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@... [] <> wrote:

Hilary wrote: What a sensible suggestion! It's a solution that, to me at least, would involve the least disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the Cathedral authorities fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a play. Doug
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I like Gairdner's suggestion that William Stanley may "simply wanted to secure his position with both sides in case of an invasion".

HIlary 'think of Cumberbatch'.yes..well when I saw a photo from the, otherwise, wonderful Hollow Crown series with Cumberbatch with a massive, and I mean massive, false hump, the result for me, was I didn't both to watch.

Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock fans.Paul

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Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> a écrit :

Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't go towards adornments

Secondly Shakespeare's Richard can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


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On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@... [] <> wrote:

Hilary wrote: What a sensible suggestion! It's a solution that, to me at least, would involve the least disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the Cathedral authorities fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a play. Doug
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Actually Eileen you didn't notice it. He was absolutely wonderful in the scene where he watched the murder of Edmund. He had you on side from then. I think the hump was a publicity shot I can't remember him having one other than being portrayed as disabled. But of course the play uses that to portray him as an outsider and he sells you that - the loaner and outsider. Not historically true of course but you're on his side. And he's certainly not bad looking compared with Oliviers nose and limp. It is worth watching. H


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On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:35 pm, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

HIlary 'think of Cumberbatch'.yes..well when I saw a photo from the, otherwise, wonderful Hollow Crown series with Cumberbatch with a massive, and I mean massive, false hump, the result for me, was I didn't both to watch.

I do have the DVD HIlary as I bought the box set. It's the only one I haven't watched. The Henry V one is in danger of getting worn out...Anton Lesser as Essex is mesmerising. But getting back to Richard lll Shakespeare version and casting aside the LC thing...another annoying thing..why is Anne Neville always so sickeningly insipid. She should have had V for Victim printed on her forehead and have done, I just can't watch..it makes me want to throw something at the t.v.

I agree about Anne. But it's also worth watching for the marvellous Adrian Dunbar as Richard Duke of York. H


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On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:58 pm, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

I do have the DVD HIlary as I bought the box set. It's the only one I haven't watched. The Henry V one is in danger of getting worn out...Anton Lesser as Essex is mesmerising. But getting back to Richard lll Shakespeare version and casting aside the LC thing...another annoying thing..why is Anne Neville always so sickeningly insipid. She should have had V for Victim printed on her forehead and have done, I just can't watch..it makes me want to throw something at the t.v.

I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.


Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <> wrote:


Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM


 









Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <>
a écrit :
















 








Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded.  Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <>
wrote:
 













 


 

Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!
 

 

It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug
 
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and

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and is

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Eileen wrote:

"These link thingies dont do as I want them to."

Carol responds:

Hi, Eileen. Are you having trouble highlighting or copying and pasting? It should be a simple process (highlight the URL, right-click Copy for the highlighted link, right-click Paste in the new spot). If your mouse isn't highlighting or the highlight disappears, you may just need a new mouse.

Carol

I do wish the BBC would serialize The Sunne in Spendour. I also liked what I saw of Paul's screenplay.

Nico

Bring it on!

Been trying to get financing for my screenplay for some years now. First when I mention Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my script.Have had really great feedback from those who have read it, including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the budget of your average British film alone! I tell Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series. You can do a lot with computers these days, but you can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT costs over a million, but that's not including costumes which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet over, request for any millionaire investors left out there open to responses!Thanks for your timePaul



Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21, Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... [] <> a écrit :

I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM












Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <>
a écrit :



















Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <>
wrote:



















Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!




It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug

--

This message has been scanned for viruses
and

dangerous content by
MailScanner,
and is

believed to be clean.


































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The test in all the plays, but particularly in Richard was butchered, making some of the speeches lose their rhythm. All that apart from some lazy casting, Sherlock included.Paul
Richard Liveth Yet


On 10 May 2017, at 20:58, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

I do have the DVD HIlary as I bought the box set. It's the only one I haven't watched. The Henry V one is in danger of getting worn out...Anton Lesser as Essex is mesmerising. But getting back to Richard lll Shakespeare version and casting aside the LC thing...another annoying thing..why is Anne Neville always so sickeningly insipid. She should have had V for Victim printed on her forehead and have done, I just can't watch..it makes me want to throw something at the t.v.

The horrendous wig didn't help.

That should read Text? Sorry. Spellcheckers!Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 11 mai 2017 à 18:36, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> a écrit :

The horrendous wig didn't help.

Sorry Paul, I have to disagree here, Sherlock does twitchy marvellously and his Richard was twitchy. 'My' Richard is certainly no macho man - he's someone with a conscience. If I had to go for a really poor Richard I'd go for Simon Russell-Beale (who is normally a great actor) - bald, fat, Eileen I'd be crying out for that wig :) :) H

From: "Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 11 May 2017, 16:17
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral



The test in all the plays, but particularly in Richard was butchered, making some of the speeches lose their rhythm. All that apart from some lazy casting, Sherlock included.Paul
Richard Liveth Yet


On 10 May 2017, at 20:58, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
I do have the DVD HIlary as I bought the box set. It's the only one I haven't watched. The Henry V one is in danger of getting worn out...Anton Lesser as Essex is mesmerising. But getting back to Richard lll Shakespeare version and casting aside the LC thing...another annoying thing..why is Anne Neville always so sickeningly insipid. She should have had V for Victim printed on her forehead and have done, I just can't watch..it makes me want to throw something at the t.v.

Not really on this topic but if I had to read one book on Richard then it wouldn't be Kendall, Potter, Ashdown-Hill, Carson and loads more, it would be the transcript of the television Trial of Richard III. After nearly forty years, read the summing up of the Defence Counsel ( a top criminal QC (Du Cann) who sadly died soon afterwards). It says everything we argue about so often. It costs about £8. Well worth it - and you get a photo of the young David Starkey with moustache. No-one has ever summed it up better. H

From: "Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, 11 May 2017, 22:55
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

Sorry Paul, I have to disagree here, Sherlock does twitchy marvellously and his Richard was twitchy. 'My' Richard is certainly no macho man - he's someone with a conscience. If I had to go for a really poor Richard I'd go for Simon Russell-Beale (who is normally a great actor) - bald, fat, Eileen I'd be crying out for that wig :) :) H

From: "Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 11 May 2017, 16:17
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral



The test in all the plays, but particularly in Richard was butchered, making some of the speeches lose their rhythm. All that apart from some lazy casting, Sherlock included.Paul
Richard Liveth Yet


On 10 May 2017, at 20:58, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
I do have the DVD HIlary as I bought the box set. It's the only one I haven't watched. The Henry V one is in danger of getting worn out...Anton Lesser as Essex is mesmerising. But getting back to Richard lll Shakespeare version and casting aside the LC thing...another annoying thing..why is Anne Neville always so sickeningly insipid. She should have had V for Victim printed on her forehead and have done, I just can't watch..it makes me want to throw something at the t.v.

Thanks Carol. I have been successful with links before and im generally quite computer savvy but i do have a problem posting links on here. When I drag the link into the message box an icon appears. I send the message and then when I open it the icon has disappeared. Its strange as other people dont seem to have a prob posting links on here....

If there is no fuss made, then certainly the inappropriate performance of this play in this venue will certainly proceed.

A J

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:26 PM, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
 

Thank you Hilary.  I still remain firmly convinced though that this play, in the cathedral,  should be stopped.  I also think kicking up a fuss is the only way to do it.  

Simon did his in London about twenty years ago. Great reviews but he had to pull out early due to illness, so I didn't get to see him.Paul
On 11 May 2017, at 23:55, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:

Sorry Paul, I have to disagree here, Sherlock does twitchy marvellously and his Richard was twitchy. 'My' Richard is certainly no macho man - he's someone with a conscience. If I had to go for a really poor Richard I'd go for Simon Russell-Beale (who is normally a great actor) - bald, fat, Eileen I'd be crying out for that wig :) :) H

From: "Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 11 May 2017, 16:17
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral



The test in all the plays, but particularly in Richard was butchered, making some of the speeches lose their rhythm. All that apart from some lazy casting, Sherlock included.Paul
Richard Liveth Yet


On 10 May 2017, at 20:58, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
I do have the DVD HIlary as I bought the box set. It's the only one I haven't watched. The Henry V one is in danger of getting worn out...Anton Lesser as Essex is mesmerising. But getting back to Richard lll Shakespeare version and casting aside the LC thing...another annoying thing..why is Anne Neville always so sickeningly insipid. She should have had V for Victim printed on her forehead and have done, I just can't watch..it makes me want to throw something at the t.v.

I do hope you find the money for this. Have you tried US cable channels? Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent historical dramas get good ratings too. So, there must be a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor History fascinating, but would like to see something historically correct and told well. If the scenes I saw were from your script, then I agree with Annette Carson.
Nico


On Thursday, 11 May 2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <> wrote:


Been trying to get financing for my screenplay for some years now. First when I mention Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my script.Have had really great feedback from those who have read it, including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the budget of your average British film alone! I tell Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series. You can do a lot with computers these days, but you can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT costs over a million, but that's not including costumes which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet over, request for any millionaire investors left out there open to responses!Thanks for your timePaul



Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21, Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... [] <> a écrit :



I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM












Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <>
a écrit :



















Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <>
wrote:



















Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!




It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug

--

This message has been scanned for viruses
and

dangerous content by
MailScanner,
and is

believed to be clean.


































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For Starz not enough nudity and sex scenes in my version!And Gregory's badly made nonsense has hit my subject badly as they can say "oh they only just did that. Who wants another WOTR series?" Of course endless bloody films about Henry VIII and Elizabeth no problem, but something that has never been covered properly? No.A lady at Channel 4 in UK said she thought it a bit biographical! I mean, it's somebody life story!!People who dont see the drama, the wonderful characters, and the tragedy at the end, must be blind! Five wonderful parts for women too, Cecily Neville, Anne Neville, Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret of Anjou, Margaret Beaufort (though I don't feature her that much as she wasn't important in Richard's story until towards the end.)I still live in hope, (as well as France!) PaulI have to say the French make terrific historical films and television. Even when they do comedies, like the Les Visiteurs series where the two protagonist rom the 1200s find themselves in different times in history, the historical detail and costumes are bang on! And there was a film about the last years of Richard's contemporary Louis XI a couple of years ago that gave me shivers watching, the period detail was amazing, and Jacques Perrin, playing the king, looked so much like him it made me gasp!
Richard Liveth Yet


On 12 May 2017, at 11:49, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

I do hope you find the money for this. Have you tried US cable channels? Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent historical dramas get good ratings too. So, there must be a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor History fascinating, but would like to see something historically correct and told well. If the scenes I saw were from your script, then I agree with Annette Carson.
Nico


On Thursday, 11 May 2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <> wrote:


Been trying to get financing for my screenplay for some years now. First when I mention Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my script.Have had really great feedback from those who have read it, including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the budget of your average British film alone! I tell Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series. You can do a lot with computers these days, but you can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT costs over a million, but that's not including costumes which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet over, request for any millionaire investors left out there open to responses!Thanks for your timePaul



Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21, Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... [] <> a écrit :



I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM












Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <>
a écrit :



















Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <>
wrote:



















Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!




It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug

--

This message has been scanned for viruses
and

dangerous content by
MailScanner,
and is

believed to be clean.


































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      All of Phillipa wasn't nonsense. It had value in that it got a different visual imprint of Richard. People in general are not history geeks like us. It has reverse propaganda value. It got pre conceived ideas shaken up.     How about another play? Isn't there a line in Shakespeare, I am I. I am  Richard. Good title. You would need an amazing actor to do a one man show. He. Needs to be charasmatic. Just let him be interviewed by some journalist. I don't believe in the Black Legend or the White Legend.   Done well it could be really successful. Docudramas put most people to sleep.
On May 12, 2017 5:54 AM, "Nicholas Brown nico11238@... []" <> wrote:
 

I do hope you find the money for this.  Have you tried US cable channels?  Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent historical dramas get good ratings too.  So, there must be a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor History fascinating, but would like to see something historically correct and told well.  If the scenes I saw were from your script, then I agree with Annette Carson.
Nico


On Thursday, 11 May 2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Been trying to get financing for my screenplay for some years now. First when I mention Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my script.Have had really great feedback from those who have read it, including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read. 
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the budget of your average British film alone! I tell Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series. You can do a lot with computers these days, but you can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT costs over a million, but that's not including costumes which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet over, request for any millionaire investors left out there open to responses!Thanks for your timePaul



Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21, Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... [] <@ yahoogroups.com> a écrit :

 

I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

------------------------------ --------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To: @ yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM


 









Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <@ yahoogroups.com>
a écrit :
















 


Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded.  Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <@ yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
 













 


 

Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!
 

 

It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug
 
--

This message has been scanned for viruses
and

dangerous content by
MailScanner,
and is

believed to be clean.


































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Well my screenplay isn't docudrama, but full bloodied drama! Told totally from Richard's viewpoint. I have to disagree about Gregory. She, like Weir, changes things to suit her own agenda.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 12 mai 2017 à 13:01, Karen O karenoder4@... [] <> a écrit :

All of Phillipa wasn't nonsense. It had value in that it got a different visual imprint of Richard. People in general are not history geeks like us. It has reverse propaganda value. It got pre conceived ideas shaken up. How about another play? Isn't there a line in Shakespeare, I am I. I am Richard. Good title. You would need an amazing actor to do a one man show. He. Needs to be charasmatic. Just let him be interviewed by some journalist. I don't believe in the Black Legend or the White Legend. Done well it could be really successful. Docudramas put most people to sleep.
On May 12, 2017 5:54 AM, "Nicholas Brown nico11238@... []" <> wrote:

I do hope you find the money for this. Have you tried US cable channels? Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent historical dramas get good ratings too. So, there must be a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor History fascinating, but would like to see something historically correct and told well. If the scenes I saw were from your script, then I agree with Annette Carson.
Nico


On Thursday, 11 May 2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Been trying to get financing for my screenplay for some years now. First when I mention Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my script.Have had really great feedback from those who have read it, including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the budget of your average British film alone! I tell Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series. You can do a lot with computers these days, but you can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT costs over a million, but that's not including costumes which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet over, request for any millionaire investors left out there open to responses!Thanks for your timePaul



Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21, Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... [] <@ yahoogroups.com> a écrit :



I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

------------------------------ --------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To: @ yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM












Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <@ yahoogroups.com>
a écrit :



















Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <@ yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



















Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!




It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug

--

This message has been scanned for viruses
and

dangerous content by
MailScanner,
and is

believed to be clean.


































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Paul, I remember you from this(or another) group, quite long ago. I have watched for your name to come up...and hoped I'd see something'd been done. I think the story and film could be marketed successfully to the film industry. You're right in that you'd need a bigger mainstream company for the financial backing, but since the discovery of
Richard's remains, and with the popularity of serials like Game Of Thrones, I think a well done, richly costumed, atmospheric and dramatic story about That King They Found In The Parking Lot could be marketed. And, plainly stated, folks do love battle scenes. The much maligned victim of Tudor propaganda, brought to life on the big screen, his complex story told lovingly...but with BATTLE SCENES...do you have an agent?

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/12/17, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll and film
To: "" <>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2017, 5:49 AM


 









I do
hope you find the money for this.  Have you tried US cable
channels?  Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory
fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent
historical dramas get good ratings too.  So, there must be
a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor
History fascinating, but would like to see something
historically correct and told well.  If the scenes I saw
were from your script, then I agree with Annette
Carson.
Nico



On Thursday, 11 May
2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale
bale.paul-trevor@... []"
<> wrote:



 









Been trying to get financing for my
screenplay for some years now. First when I mention
Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by
McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream
back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my
script.Have
had really great feedback from those who have read it,
including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the
mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a
professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of
Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read. 
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation
alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the
budget of your average British film alone! I tell
Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is
planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series.
You can do a lot with computers these days, but you
can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT
costs over a million, but that's not including costumes
which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd
say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But
then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include
some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents
fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've
made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet
over, request for any millionaire investors left out there
open to responses!Thanks for your
timePaul



Envoyé de mon
iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21,
Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@...
[] <>
a écrit :
















 










I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur
about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death,
someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written
film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare
Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great
novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but
I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately
cast.



Michele

ml_thorsteinson@...



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@...
[] <>
wrote:



Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester
Cathedral

To:

Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM





 



















Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of

the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry
Sherlock

fans.Paul



Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...

[] <>

a écrit :

































 





Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I
was

an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a
wedding

and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or

toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash
won't

go towards adornments

Secondly Shakespeare's Richard

can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who

encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be

applauded.  Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H





Sent from Yahoo Mail for

iPhone



On

Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...

[] <>

wrote:

 



























 





 



Hilary

wrote:



What

a sensible suggestion!

 



 



It's a

solution that, to me at least, would involve the least

disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that
the

Cathedral authorities

fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a

play.

Doug

 

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The Guardian reports ,'Sensitive Richard III to be performed at Leicester' Are they kidding?https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/stage/2017/may/07/richard-iii-shakespeare-staged-leicester-cathedral

On May 11, 2017 8:42 PM, "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <> wrote:
 

If there is no fuss made, then certainly the inappropriate performance of this play in this venue will certainly proceed.

A J

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:26 PM, cherryripe.eileenb@googlemail. com [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thank you Hilary.  I still remain firmly convinced though that this play, in the cathedral,  should be stopped.  I also think kicking up a fuss is the only way to do it.  

---In , <karenoder4@...> wrote :

The Guardian reports ,'Sensitive Richard III to be performed at Leicester' Are they kidding?https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/stage/2017/may/07/richard-iii-shakespeare-staged-leicester-cathedral


I fear they really believe it
I wonder how you can make a sensitive Shakespearean Richard
Shakespeare wrote his play based on the official Tudor version of Richard's life. I guess in his lifetime there was hardly an alternative version available. And he did what seems to me the only option he had; to excagerate the allreadey unbeliveable fabrications of his sources and create a grotesque drama.
It tells us absolutely nothing about the historical Richard, the man whose physical remains lie in Leicester Cathederal.
Eva

Karen wrote:All of Phillipa wasn't nonsense. It had value in that it got a different visual imprint of Richard. People in general are not history geeks like us. It has reverse propaganda value. It got pre conceived ideas shaken up.

The main problem I have with Philippa Gregory that she blurs the lines between history and historical fiction. Artistic licence and imaginary plot lines are fine if you make it clear what is real and what is not, although I don't understand why some people feel the need to change details to dramatize the lives of people whose lives were extremely dramatic anyway. She calls herself a historian and appears on documentaries peddling the plot lines of her novels as factual, some of which are absurd and insulting to people who actually lived. She was on a BBC programme about Henry VIII a few years ago saying that she really thought it was true that Anne Boleyn was in an incestuous relationship with her brother and all those other men Henry accused her of being unfaithful with. She couldn't give any evidence to back up her theory. She also believes that Catherine of Aragon was liar who lied about consummating her marriage to Arthur. I can't remember the exact reason, but it was really absurd, something to do with a secret romance. Unfortunately, a lot of people believe what she writes is real. If you look up The White Princess, you will find discussions about why the characters (the real ones) did things that never actually happened. Even the woman who adapted the screenplay felt the need to explain why she felt it necessary to change the scene where HT raped EoY clearly thinking that it really had happened.

She isn't too hard on Richard, but she really doesn't understand the mentality of the medieval/Tudor world or the role morality and religion played in it, and projects present day morality onto her characters. The White Princess clearly illustrates that she doesn't understand what the precontract meant at all. HT rapes EofY with MB and EW's collusion, because he needs to find out that she is fertile before he marries her. Since he is betrothed to her, consummation would validate it as a marriage anyway. How could someone who wrote about EW miss that one? I could go on...
Nico






On Friday, 12 May 2017, 17:24, "Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... []" <> wrote:



Paul, I remember you from this(or another) group, quite long ago. I have watched for your name to come up...and hoped I'd see something'd been done. I think the story and film could be marketed successfully to the film industry. You're right in that you'd need a bigger mainstream company for the financial backing, but since the discovery of
Richard's remains, and with the popularity of serials like Game Of Thrones, I think a well done, richly costumed, atmospheric and dramatic story about That King They Found In The Parking Lot could be marketed. And, plainly stated, folks do love battle scenes. The much maligned victim of Tudor propaganda, brought to life on the big screen, his complex story told lovingly...but with BATTLE SCENES...do you have an agent?

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/12/17, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll and film
To: "" <>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2017, 5:49 AM












I do
hope you find the money for this. Have you tried US cable
channels? Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory
fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent
historical dramas get good ratings too. So, there must be
a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor
History fascinating, but would like to see something
historically correct and told well. If the scenes I saw
were from your script, then I agree with Annette
Carson.
Nico



On Thursday, 11 May
2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale
bale.paul-trevor@... []"
<> wrote:













Been trying to get financing for my
screenplay for some years now. First when I mention
Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by
McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream
back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my
script.Have
had really great feedback from those who have read it,
including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the
mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a
professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of
Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation
alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the
budget of your average British film alone! I tell
Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is
planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series.
You can do a lot with computers these days, but you
can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT
costs over a million, but that's not including costumes
which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd
say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But
then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include
some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents
fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've
made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet
over, request for any millionaire investors left out there
open to responses!Thanks for your
timePaul



Envoyé de mon
iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21,
Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@...
[] <>
a écrit :



























I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur
about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death,
someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written
film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare
Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great
novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but
I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately
cast.



Michele

ml_thorsteinson@...



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@...
[] <>
wrote:



Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester
Cathedral

To:

Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM

























Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of

the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry
Sherlock

fans.Paul



Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...

[] <>

a écrit :







































Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I
was

an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a
wedding

and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or

toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash
won't

go towards adornments

Secondly Shakespeare's Richard

can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who

encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be

applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H





Sent from Yahoo Mail for

iPhone



On

Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...

[] <>

wrote:







































Hilary

wrote:



What

a sensible suggestion!









It's a

solution that, to me at least, would involve the least

disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that
the

Cathedral authorities

fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a

play.

Doug



--



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Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery. It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.

(People may argue for an 'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

Colyngbourne - you have summed up the situation most succinctly.

She's clearly been watching Game of Thrones for ideas, not looking up history!Paul
On 13 May 2017, at 13:33, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

Karen wrote:All of Phillipa wasn't nonsense. It had value in that it got a different visual imprint of Richard. People in general are not history geeks like us. It has reverse propaganda value. It got pre conceived ideas shaken up.

The main problem I have with Philippa Gregory that she blurs the lines between history and historical fiction. Artistic licence and imaginary plot lines are fine if you make it clear what is real and what is not, although I don't understand why some people feel the need to change details to dramatize the lives of people whose lives were extremely dramatic anyway. She calls herself a historian and appears on documentaries peddling the plot lines of her novels as factual, some of which are absurd and insulting to people who actually lived. She was on a BBC programme about Henry VIII a few years ago saying that she really thought it was true that Anne Boleyn was in an incestuous relationship with her brother and all those other men Henry accused her of being unfaithful with. She couldn't give any evidence to back up her theory. She also believes that Catherine of Aragon was liar who lied about consummating her marriage to Arthur. I can't remember the exact reason, but it was really absurd, something to do with a secret romance. Unfortunately, a lot of people believe what she writes is real. If you look up The White Princess, you will find discussions about why the characters (the real ones) did things that never actually happened. Even the woman who adapted the screenplay felt the need to explain why she felt it necessary to change the scene where HT raped EoY clearly thinking that it really had happened.

She isn't too hard on Richard, but she really doesn't understand the mentality of the medieval/Tudor world or the role morality and religion played in it, and projects present day morality onto her characters. The White Princess clearly illustrates that she doesn't understand what the precontract meant at all. HT rapes EofY with MB and EW's collusion, because he needs to find out that she is fertile before he marries her. Since he is betrothed to her, consummation would validate it as a marriage anyway. How could someone who wrote about EW miss that one? I could go on...
Nico






On Friday, 12 May 2017, 17:24, "Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... []" <> wrote:



Paul, I remember you from this(or another) group, quite long ago. I have watched for your name to come up...and hoped I'd see something'd been done. I think the story and film could be marketed successfully to the film industry. You're right in that you'd need a bigger mainstream company for the financial backing, but since the discovery of
Richard's remains, and with the popularity of serials like Game Of Thrones, I think a well done, richly costumed, atmospheric and dramatic story about That King They Found In The Parking Lot could be marketed. And, plainly stated, folks do love battle scenes. The much maligned victim of Tudor propaganda, brought to life on the big screen, his complex story told lovingly...but with BATTLE SCENES...do you have an agent?

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/12/17, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll and film
To: "" <>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2017, 5:49 AM












I do
hope you find the money for this. Have you tried US cable
channels? Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory
fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent
historical dramas get good ratings too. So, there must be
a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor
History fascinating, but would like to see something
historically correct and told well. If the scenes I saw
were from your script, then I agree with Annette
Carson.
Nico



On Thursday, 11 May
2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale
bale.paul-trevor@... []"
<> wrote:













Been trying to get financing for my
screenplay for some years now. First when I mention
Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by
McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream
back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my
script.Have
had really great feedback from those who have read it,
including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the
mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a
professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of
Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation
alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the
budget of your average British film alone! I tell
Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is
planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series.
You can do a lot with computers these days, but you
can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT
costs over a million, but that's not including costumes
which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd
say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But
then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include
some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents
fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've
made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet
over, request for any millionaire investors left out there
open to responses!Thanks for your
timePaul



Envoyé de mon
iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21,
Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@...
[] <>
a écrit :



























I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur
about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death,
someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written
film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare
Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great
novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but
I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately
cast.



Michele

ml_thorsteinson@...



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@...
[] <>
wrote:



Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Richard III
Society Forum] Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester
Cathedral

To:

Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM

























Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of

the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry
Sherlock

fans.Paul



Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...

[] <>

a écrit :







































Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I
was

an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a
wedding

and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or

toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash
won't

go towards adornments

Secondly Shakespeare's Richard

can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who

encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be

applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H





Sent from Yahoo Mail for

iPhone



On

Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...

[] <>

wrote:







































Hilary

wrote:



What

a sensible suggestion!









It's a

solution that, to me at least, would involve the least

disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that
the

Cathedral authorities

fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a

play.

Doug



--



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(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery.  It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.  

(People may argue for an  'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

I hope you get a backer too Paul but you're right about Gregory. Her poor attempt has kyboshed everything for about 10 years I reckon. But there is immense enthusiasm out there for something done properly - I mean on the lines of Wolf Hall, and the bits I read of your script were bang on. H

From: "Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... []" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 May 2017, 11:12
Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll and film

For Starz not enough nudity and sex scenes in my version!And Gregory's badly made nonsense has hit my subject badly as they can say "oh they only just did that. Who wants another WOTR series?" Of course endless bloody films about Henry VIII and Elizabeth no problem, but something that has never been covered properly? No.A lady at Channel 4 in UK said she thought it a bit biographical! I mean, it's somebody life story!!People who dont see the drama, the wonderful characters, and the tragedy at the end, must be blind! Five wonderful parts for women too, Cecily Neville, Anne Neville, Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret of Anjou, Margaret Beaufort (though I don't feature her that much as she wasn't important in Richard's story until towards the end.)I still live in hope, (as well as France!) PaulI have to say the French make terrific historical films and television. Even when they do comedies, like the Les Visiteurs series where the two protagonist rom the 1200s find themselves in different times in history, the historical detail and costumes are bang on! And there was a film about the last years of Richard's contemporary Louis XI a couple of years ago that gave me shivers watching, the period detail was amazing, and Jacques Perrin, playing the king, looked so much like him it made me gasp!
Richard Liveth Yet


On 12 May 2017, at 11:49, Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] <> wrote:

I do hope you find the money for this. Have you tried US cable channels? Starz has spent a fortune on Philippa Gregory fantasy nonsense and it has been really popular, but decent historical dramas get good ratings too. So, there must be a market somewhere for people who find late Medieval/Tudor History fascinating, but would like to see something historically correct and told well. If the scenes I saw were from your script, then I agree with Annette Carson.
Nico


On Thursday, 11 May 2017, 13:23, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <> wrote:


Been trying to get financing for my screenplay for some years now. First when I mention Richard I had remarks like "it's been done by McKellen" "Not the real story" I'd scream back to those who couldn't be bothered to read my script.Have had really great feedback from those who have read it, including Annette Carson, who thought my solution to the mystery of the sons of Edward IV 'inspired', and a professional screenwriter told me he thought my script of Bosworth the best battle script he'd ever read.
But costume epics are expensive. The coronation alone in terms of costumes if done properly would be the budget of your average British film alone! I tell Richard's story from birth to after Bosworth and is planned as four ninety minutes and a final two hour series. You can do a lot with computers these days, but you can't cgi costumes!Each episode of GOT costs over a million, but that's not including costumes which were costed mainly as part of first series. So I'd say I'd need in the region of £10 to £15 million. But then I want a great cast and my ideal cast would include some very big names, great actors whose faces and talents fit, so that could probably double the budget.In my head I've made it many times, and it's damned good! Blowing own trumpet over, request for any millionaire investors left out there open to responses!Thanks for your timePaul



Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 21:21, Michele Thorsteinson ml_thorsteinson@... [] <> a écrit :



I very much enjoy Mr Cumberbatch, however, I must concur about Richard. I am holding out hope that, before my death, someone will develop a richly filmed, beautifully written film about Richard III...far away from the Shakespeare Richard. My fantasy is that Sharon Kay Penman's great novel will somehow wind up on the silver screen, but I'll settle for a well written screenplay, appropriately cast.

Michele
ml_thorsteinson@...

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/10/17, Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... [] <> wrote:

Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 2:41 PM












Think of Cumberbatch? Why? That was one of
the worst Richard's I've ever seen!Sorry Sherlock
fans.Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 10 mai 2017 à 20:19, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...
[] <>
a écrit :



















Firstly cash in the C of E is an issue. In early March I was
an the lovely church of Ab Kettleby in Leics for a wedding
and christening. They couldn't afford heating (or
toilets) and it was literally freezing so any cash won't
go towards adornments
Secondly Shakespeare's Richard
can be very seductive - think of Cumberbatch. Anyone who
encourages an interest in the real Richard is to be
applauded. Sorry brief sent from dreaded IPhone. H


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone

On
Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 7:09 pm, 'Doug Stamate' destama@...
[] <>
wrote:



















Hilary
wrote:

What
a sensible suggestion!




It's a
solution that, to me at least, would involve the least
disruption to current plans, yet inform everyone that the
Cathedral authorities
fully recognize Shakespeare's play is just that - a
play.
Doug

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Absolutely spot on Nico. Well said.
Mary

You should hear about what went on at the museum they created around the grave sight. Asked for the opinions of JAH, Philippa, and Annette Carson, then ignored them all. Apart from the simple glass plate over the grave and the area one can view it from, I find it all pretty distasteful, the throne with blood running down it, and the "fifteenth century soldier" straight out of Star Wars! And portraits of Henry VIII and his six wives as well as The Tydder! I mean this is supposed to be about Richard! But it's turned into a tacky tourist trap. The shop even sells books by Alison Weir! I ask you!Paul

Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 13 mai 2017 à 16:05, A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... [] <> a écrit :

I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:

Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery. It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.

(People may argue for an 'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

ÿ Nico, you are too kind. I truly have a problem with any author who flaunts known history and does not provide the reader with copious notes describing the actual fact. In my world, Philippa Gregory is categorized as Romantic Fantasy, along with Ms. Weir. I can't get through either one. The walls of falsehood are unpleasant and repellant. I have no trouble with my Ricardian friends who write acknowledged fantasy - time travel seems to be favorite - but it's honest effort, not to be mistaken for fact. It's the reason there are two versions of KING'S GAMES - one for people who are interested in poetry, and one for folks who can't be bothered with a play but are curious about the history and, optimistically, for Ricardians who want a gift to give to those who wonder what in the world all the fuss is about - hopefully, painless history.
www.NanceCrawford.com
KING'S GAMES: The Commentaries
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----- Original Message ----- From: Nicholas Brown nico11238@... [] To: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 4:33 AM Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll and film

Karen wrote:All of Phillipa wasn't nonsense. It had value in that it got a different visual imprint of Richard. People in general are not history geeks like us. It has reverse propaganda value. It got pre conceived ideas shaken up.

The main problem I have with Philippa Gregory that she blurs the lines between history and historical fiction. Artistic licence and imaginary plot lines are fine if you make it clear what is real and what is not, although I don't understand why some people feel the need to change details to dramatize the lives of people whose lives were extremely dramatic anyway. She calls herself a historian and appears on documentaries peddling the plot lines of her novels as factual, some of which are absurd and insulting to people who actually lived. She was on a BBC programme about Henry VIII a few years ago saying that she really thought it was true that Anne Boleyn was in an incestuous relationship with her brother and all those other men Henry accused her of being unfaithful with. She couldn't give any evidence to back up her theory. She also believes that Catherine of Aragon was liar who lied about consummating her marriage to Arthur. I can't remember the exact reason, but it was really absurd, something to do with a secret romance. Unfortunately, a lot of people believe what she writes is real. If you look up The White Princess, you will find discussions about why the characters (the real ones) did things that never actually happened. Even the woman who adapted the screenplay felt the need to explain why she felt it necessary to change the scene where HT raped EoY clearly thinking that it really had happened.

She isn't too hard on Richard, but she really doesn't understand the mentality of the medieval/Tudor world or the role morality and religion played in it, and projects present day morality onto her characters. The White Princess clearly illustrates that she doesn't understand what the precontract meant at all. HT rapes EofY with MB and EW's collusion, because he needs to find out that she is fertile before he marries her. Since he is betrothed to her, consummation would validate it as a marriage anyway. How could someone who wrote about EW miss that one? I could go on...
Nico

AJ I hate to cross swords with you on this but:
It costs £2.4k a day to support the running costs of Leicester Cathedral
The people who go to the play (I guess mainly students and a minority audience) will have enough intelligence to realise it's Shakespeare and fiction. The masses don't go to Shakespeare - it's too hard and they've been put off at school
If they'd put it on at the Leicester City "Kingpower" FC stadium where it would have reached thousands more, then I'd indeed be worried !!
Now if you want the cathedral and others, like Ely where it's also being held, to be sold off as blocks of flats for Grand Designs, then fine.
Such is the state of the C of E.
I pass York Minster regularly and it has an enormous masons' yard to carry out ongoing repairs costing a fortune.
Life, economics and morality are not easy H :) :) Who remains a Richard supporter but can swallow this and move on

From: "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2017, 16:15
Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:
Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery. It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.

(People may argue for an 'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

Hilary - we're never going to agree on the issue of using Richard's remains for the profit of Leicester cathedral, especially set against the distress of the last few years, so maybe best to drop it.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:
 

AJ I hate to cross swords with you on this but:
It costs £2.4k a day to support the running costs of Leicester Cathedral
The people who go to the play (I guess mainly students and a minority audience) will have enough intelligence to realise it's Shakespeare and fiction. The masses don't go to Shakespeare - it's too hard and they've been put off at school
If they'd put it on at the Leicester City "Kingpower"  FC stadium  where it would have reached thousands more, then I'd indeed be worried !!
Now if you want the cathedral and others, like Ely where it's also being held, to be sold off as blocks of flats for Grand Designs, then fine.
Such is the state of the C of E.
I pass York Minster regularly and it has an enormous masons' yard to carry out ongoing repairs costing a fortune.
Life, economics and morality are not easy H :) :)  Who remains a Richard supporter but can swallow this and move on

From: "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <@ yahoogroups.com>
To: "@ yahoogroups.com" <@ yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2017, 16:15
Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

  I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:
  Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery.  It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.  

(People may argue for an  'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

That's kind of odd. I know it isn't my church but surely there are better ways to raise money. I don't really think this event will be so profitable. It sounds like an 'in your face' to me. From Karen along the shore of Lake Erie participating in the Greatest Week In American Birding. Bald eagles, and a Magnolia Warbler spotted. 
On May 13, 2017 6:49 PM, "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hilary - we're never going to agree on the issue of using Richard's remains for the profit of Leicester cathedral, especially set against the distress of the last few years, so maybe best to drop it.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

AJ I hate to cross swords with you on this but:
It costs £2.4k a day to support the running costs of Leicester Cathedral
The people who go to the play (I guess mainly students and a minority audience) will have enough intelligence to realise it's Shakespeare and fiction. The masses don't go to Shakespeare - it's too hard and they've been put off at school
If they'd put it on at the Leicester City "Kingpower"  FC stadium  where it would have reached thousands more, then I'd indeed be worried !!
Now if you want the cathedral and others, like Ely where it's also being held, to be sold off as blocks of flats for Grand Designs, then fine.
Such is the state of the C of E.
I pass York Minster regularly and it has an enormous masons' yard to carry out ongoing repairs costing a fortune.
Life, economics and morality are not easy H :) :)  Who remains a Richard supporter but can swallow this and move on

From: "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <@yahoog roups.com>
To: "@yahoog roups.com" <@yahoog roups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2017, 16:15
Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

  I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:
  Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery.  It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.  

(People may argue for an  'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

Odd the C of E dont remember what we are told a man called Jesus did to the moneylenders in the temple!Paul

Richard Liveth Yet


On 14 May 2017, at 00:02, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:

AJ I hate to cross swords with you on this but:
It costs £2.4k a day to support the running costs of Leicester Cathedral
The people who go to the play (I guess mainly students and a minority audience) will have enough intelligence to realise it's Shakespeare and fiction. The masses don't go to Shakespeare - it's too hard and they've been put off at school
If they'd put it on at the Leicester City "Kingpower" FC stadium where it would have reached thousands more, then I'd indeed be worried !!
Now if you want the cathedral and others, like Ely where it's also being held, to be sold off as blocks of flats for Grand Designs, then fine.
Such is the state of the C of E.
I pass York Minster regularly and it has an enormous masons' yard to carry out ongoing repairs costing a fortune.
Life, economics and morality are not easy H :) :) Who remains a Richard supporter but can swallow this and move on

From: "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2017, 16:15
Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:
Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery. It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.

(People may argue for an 'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

Tickets are advertised at £25 and £35.............so not mainly students, I'd imagine.
They will probably be given to the 'great and the good' as they were to the actual reburial ceremony, so not much profit for the cathedral coffers. JLC.

On Sunday, 14 May 2017, 10:48, "Paul Trevor Bale bale475@... []" <> wrote:


Odd the C of E dont remember what we are told a man called Jesus did to the moneylenders in the temple!Paul

Richard Liveth Yet


On 14 May 2017, at 00:02, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:

AJ I hate to cross swords with you on this but:
It costs £2.4k a day to support the running costs of Leicester Cathedral
The people who go to the play (I guess mainly students and a minority audience) will have enough intelligence to realise it's Shakespeare and fiction. The masses don't go to Shakespeare - it's too hard and they've been put off at school
If they'd put it on at the Leicester City "Kingpower" FC stadium where it would have reached thousands more, then I'd indeed be worried !!
Now if you want the cathedral and others, like Ely where it's also being held, to be sold off as blocks of flats for Grand Designs, then fine.
Such is the state of the C of E.
I pass York Minster regularly and it has an enormous masons' yard to carry out ongoing repairs costing a fortune.
Life, economics and morality are not easy H :) :) Who remains a Richard supporter but can swallow this and move on

From: "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2017, 16:15
Subject: Re: Re: Shakespeare's Richard lll & Leicester Cathedral

I agree completely with colyngbourne.

I would also like to point out that if you read John Ashdown-Hill's footnotes in his Mythology of Richard III, you will come across one that refers to a version of Leicester cathedral's design brief for architects from March 2013, in which one of the headings refers to "the Cult of St Richard." I asked JAH about that & it turns out it was present in a draft version that was shared with LFR about a week before the release of the official version, by which time it had been edited out.

Why am I mentioning this? because it indicates to me that the clergy staff were aware even as long ago as early 2013, of the issues surrounding King Richard's reputation. Instead of treating King Richard with common human decency in this regard, they continue to exploit the controversy for their own gain. I'd also add that for a period on Facebook, it wasn't unsusual for those who were in favor of a Leicester burial to speak derisively of St Richard - a term I have never seen used by those of us who adopt a positive point of view of Richard's character.

A J

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:16 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]> wrote:
Performing "RIII" at Leicester Cathedral is an appalling and crass idea, probably driven by the publicity and commercial aspects of the production. It's certainly not with any consideration of Richard himself.

The play itself is not necessarily the issue - it can be performed elsewhere in Leicester and will be enjoyed by many; it does its job of being an Elizabethan drama which falsifies the historical record for the purposes of entertainment and political satire. Neither is the setting of a church (a general church) an issue, since lots of plays are performed in churches, although some are not, at the discretion of the church authorities - plays which strongly advocate against a Christian ethos or which would bring the sacred space of the building into disrepute. Although the online petition uses the word 'sacrilege', it doesn't literally or legally apply in this situation, although, emotionally, some Ricardians will feel that is what is happening.

But performing "RIII" in Leicester Cathedral itself is really something else again: Leicester *promised* loud and long and boasted and clamoured to say "we will treat Richard's remains with dignity and honour" - that means, for all time, not just on Mar 26th 2015. Richard's remains have been laid to rest in peace in the cathedral - the space for his tomb is so inviolate, you're not even allowed to leave a white rose there. (I think this is unfair, but that's a debate for another day.)

And then the clergy of the cathedral are advocating, and sanctioning, the performance of a play which is world-famous for vilifying this man, making him a murderous monster, to be performed right in front of his tomb. Because that shows "dignity and honour"? Their duty is to those in their care, primarily, and they are betraying that duty and that promise of dignity and honour if they promote a drama that humiliates and traduces the real historical Richard.

No-one would mount a show mocking or denigrating war-dead in front of a cenotaph, or put on a play castigating Edward VIII's behaviour around the abdication in St George's Windsor, or put on a play which monsters Bobby Kennedy performed by his grave in Arlington Cemetery. It is utterly shameful that a) they are allowing it and b) they don't see that they are going against their promise to be custodians of his grave and keep it in honour and dignity.

(People may argue for an 'insert' in a play programme explaining the real Richard wasn't like this, but in the end the play is still being performed 'in his presence', and the authority of the place in which it is performed gives the drama added weight and veracity. Shame on them.)

I hope they change their mind and their venue, but even if they do, this won't be forgotten: they will have had to be pressured into doing the decent (and Christian) thing.

There must be better, and more acceptable ways for the cathedral to raise money. Like another choice of play for example.

I read that Ian Brady, the child killer who has just died, likened himself the Richard, 'the evil king'. As he also liked Shakespeare its almost certain this is where he got the evil king thing from. This is the message this play conveys..

They have just been awarded a Heritage Lottery Fund grant of £3.3m.

A J

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 9:14 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
 

There must be better, and more acceptable ways for the cathedral to raise money.  Like another choice of play for example.

Who? The Cathedral. Well they wont need to be repeating this travesty again in that case.

Yes - the cathedral - you can read about it on their Facebook page or find an article here

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-cathedral-secures-multi-million-pound-lottery-windfall/story-30331581-detail/story.html

A J

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:41 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
 

Who?  The Cathedral.  Well they wont need to be repeating this travesty again in that case.

Thank you AJ ..Ill take a look.

How much could that play make them? How about selling tickets to a talk from a society member? If opening up dialogue is what they want? That's why I don't believe that's the motive. Why not have a lecture nearby on the same nights? 
On May 17, 2017 9:15 AM, "A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... []" <> wrote:
 

They have just been awarded a Heritage Lottery Fund grant of £3.3m.

A J

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 9:14 AM, cherryripe.eileenb@googlemail. com [] <@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

There must be better, and more acceptable ways for the cathedral to raise money.  Like another choice of play for example.

I've already done that, and signed a petition organised by one of the members of the 'Richard III Loyal Supporters' FB page.
I didn't get a reply, and I don't think it's going to work - although could be wrong. I think something stronger is needed. Surely, there are more appropriate venues in which to stage dramatic works.
I'm working on a novel which I hope will help to restore RIII's correct historical interpretation

You know people are not logical. They are emotional. Shakespeare understood this. All they have to do is hear one time 'King Richard murdered his nephews' and the mind blocks out reason. That's the way we work.  Maybe we should get him a public relations manager.=
On May 19, 2017 7:25 AM, "davetheslave44@... []" <> wrote:
 

I've already done that, and signed a petition organised by one of the members of the 'Richard III Loyal Supporters' FB page.
I didn't get a reply, and I don't think it's going to work - although could be wrong. I think something stronger is needed. Surely, there are more appropriate venues in which to stage dramatic works.
I'm working on a novel which I hope will help to restore RIII's correct historical interpretation