Could Edward IV have been poisoned?

Karen are you referring to the Death of Edward IV by Richard Collins? I don't think that it says that Edward had a gargantuan meal with Anthony Rivers, Vaughan and Grey because at the time of Edward's death they were in Ludlow in the Prince of Wales'household and he was in London. Collins speculates that the Woodvilles could have been involved in a plot to kill Edward because he was no longer the goose that laid the golden eggs for the Woodvilles and that they thought that they would have more power if he was dead and Edward V was king. Anthony Woodville did get up to a few odd things in the weeks before Edward's death, like writing to Dymock his agent asking for letters to prove he had the right to raise troops in Wales and giving his post as Deputy Constable of the Tower to his nephew Dorset. He also speculates that it could have been arsenic poisoning that killed Edward because he was ill and then recovered and then relapsed and died a few days later. He based the arsenic theory on conversations he had with hospital consultants he was working with at the time. Of course as they were all in Ludlow it would have been La Woodville and her son Dorset who probably would have had to be responsible for administering the arsenic. It is an interesting theory with some, notice I said some, elements of truth in it.

I always remember reading that after a big meal Edward went swimming in the Thames and caught cold, which then developed into something more serious. He was with Hastings and Dorset. I've always thought a man of his age having over indulged himself for so long was taking too many risks with his health so am not surprised. His grandson followed a similar path and suffered from an abscess on his leg for his last few years. In his case well deserved. But both were by modern standards young.Poisoning benefitted  nobody, especially the Woodvilles.Paul

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Le 27 oct. 2017 à 00:04, maryfriend@... [] <@ yahoogroups.com> a écrit :

 

Karen are you referring to the Death of Edward IV by Richard Collins? I don't think that it says that Edward had a gargantuan meal with Anthony Rivers, Vaughan and Grey because at the time of Edward's death they were in Ludlow in the Prince of Wales'household and he was in London. Collins speculates that the Woodvilles could have been involved in a plot to kill Edward because he was no longer the goose that laid the golden eggs for the Woodvilles and that they thought that they would have more power if he was dead and Edward V was king. Anthony Woodville did get up to a few odd things in the weeks before Edward's death, like writing to Dymock his agent asking for letters to prove he had the right to raise troops in Wales and giving his post as Deputy Constable of the Tower to his nephew Dorset. He also speculates that it could have been arsenic poisoning that killed Edward because he was ill and then recovered and then relapsed and died a few days later. He based the arsenic theory on conversations he had with hospital consultants he was working with at the time. Of course as they were all in Ludlow it would have been La Woodville and her son Dorset who probably would have had to be responsible for administering the arsenic. It is an interesting theory with some, notice I said some, elements of truth in it.

  It was Lent. Fishing and swimming etc.... Were forbidden. I don't believe the chill story for that reason.
On Oct 27, 2017 6:12 AM, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <> wrote:
 

I always remember reading that after a big meal Edward went swimming in the Thames and caught cold, which then developed into something more serious. He was with Hastings and Dorset. I've always thought a man of his age having over indulged himself for so long was taking too many risks with his health so am not surprised. His grandson followed a similar path and suffered from an abscess on his leg for his last few years. In his case well deserved. But both were by modern standards young.

Karen are you referring to the Death of Edward IV by Richard Collins? I don't think that it says that Edward had a gargantuan meal with Anthony Rivers, Vaughan and Grey because at the time of Edward's death they were in Ludlow in the Prince of Wales'household and he was in London. Collins speculates that the Woodvilles could have been involved in a plot to kill Edward because he was no longer the goose that laid the golden eggs for the Woodvilles and that they thought that they would have more power if he was dead and Edward V was king. Anthony Woodville did get up to a few odd things in the weeks before Edward's death, like writing to Dymock his agent asking for letters to prove he had the right to raise troops in Wales and giving his post as Deputy Constable of the Tower to his nephew Dorset. He also speculates that it could have been arsenic poisoning that killed Edward because he was ill and then recovered and then relapsed and died a few days later. He based the arsenic theory on conversations he had with hospital consultants he was working with at the time. Of course as they were all in Ludlow it would have been La Woodville and her son Dorset who probably would have had to be responsible for administering the arsenic. It is an interesting theory with some, notice I said some, elements of truth in it.

It was Lent. Fishing and swimming etc.... Were forbidden. I don't believe the chill story for that reason.
On Oct 27, 2017 6:12 AM, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <> wrote:

I always remember reading that after a big meal Edward went swimming in the Thames and caught cold, which then developed into something more serious. He was with Hastings and Dorset. I've always thought a man of his age having over indulged himself for so long was taking too many risks with his health so am not surprised. His grandson followed a similar path and suffered from an abscess on his leg for his last few years. In his case well deserved. But both were by modern standards young.

Karen are you referring to the Death of Edward IV by Richard Collins? I don't think that it says that Edward had a gargantuan meal with Anthony Rivers, Vaughan and Grey because at the time of Edward's death they were in Ludlow in the Prince of Wales'household and he was in London. Collins speculates that the Woodvilles could have been involved in a plot to kill Edward because he was no longer the goose that laid the golden eggs for the Woodvilles and that they thought that they would have more power if he was dead and Edward V was king. Anthony Woodville did get up to a few odd things in the weeks before Edward's death, like writing to Dymock his agent asking for letters to prove he had the right to raise troops in Wales and giving his post as Deputy Constable of the Tower to his nephew Dorset. He also speculates that it could have been arsenic poisoning that killed Edward because he was ill and then recovered and then relapsed and died a few days later. He based the arsenic theory on conversations he had with hospital consultants he was working with at the time. Of course as they were all in Ludlow it would have been La Woodville and her son Dorset who probably would have had to be responsible for administering the arsenic. It is an interesting theory with some, notice I said some, elements of truth in it.

Swimming forbidden for Lent? Why on earth?

It was Lent. Fishing and swimming etc.... Were forbidden. I don't believe the chill story for that reason.
On Oct 27, 2017 6:12 AM, "Paul Trevor Bale bale.paul-trevor@... []" <> wrote:

I always remember reading that after a big meal Edward went swimming in the Thames and caught cold, which then developed into something more serious. He was with Hastings and Dorset. I've always thought a man of his age having over indulged himself for so long was taking too many risks with his health so am not surprised. His grandson followed a similar path and suffered from an abscess on his leg for his last few years. In his case well deserved. But both were by modern standards young.

Karen are you referring to the Death of Edward IV by Richard Collins? I don't think that it says that Edward had a gargantuan meal with Anthony Rivers, Vaughan and Grey because at the time of Edward's death they were in Ludlow in the Prince of Wales'household and he was in London. Collins speculates that the Woodvilles could have been involved in a plot to kill Edward because he was no longer the goose that laid the golden eggs for the Woodvilles and that they thought that they would have more power if he was dead and Edward V was king. Anthony Woodville did get up to a few odd things in the weeks before Edward's death, like writing to Dymock his agent asking for letters to prove he had the right to raise troops in Wales and giving his post as Deputy Constable of the Tower to his nephew Dorset. He also speculates that it could have been arsenic poisoning that killed Edward because he was ill and then recovered and then relapsed and died a few days later. He based the arsenic theory on conversations he had with hospital consultants he was working with at the time. Of course as they were all in Ludlow it would have been La Woodville and her son Dorset who probably would have had to be responsible for administering the arsenic. It is an interesting theory with some, notice I said some, elements of truth in it.

The story is from Mancini, and it involves Edward fishing in the Thames (not swimming at all), and it was Easter Week, not Lent.

Also, I didn't know fishing was forbidden in Lent. How did that work with only being allowed to eat fish, not meant, during Lent?

I think the earlier date is based on the fact that the notice of his death in the York House books is dated 7 (vij) April, and says the news had arrived the day before. But no other source corroborates this - in fact, on the 16th Edward V wrote to tell King's Lynn, and informed them that he had got the news just two days earlier (i.e. on the 14th).

The next item in the York House Books after the news of Edward's death is dated 24th April (xxiiij), so I would suggest that the entry on Edward's death has simply been misdated, and was really written on the 17th (xvij) - it's a common enough error, and when I did a calculation of when the news ought to have arrived if the messenger to York had travelled at the same speed as the messenger to Ludlow, 16th April looked about right.

This - IMHO - misdated item was also the source of the idea that Edward was poisoned, because Rev Denning, telling Collins about Edward's death, assumed that he had almost died quite shortly after being taken ill, leading to false news of his death reaching York prematurely, but then rallied and was poisoned again.

I think you all know my feelings about the poison theory by now so I'll say no more!

The story is from Mancini, and it involves Edward fishing in the Thames (not swimming at all), and it was Easter Week, not Lent.

Also, I didn't know fishing was forbidden in Lent. How did that work with only being allowed to eat fish, not meant, during Lent?