Welcome to the Ghost Train

Where is everyone? No messages for seven days.
Can we think of something to talk about?

Yes Stephen - I would like to talk about Anne Neville - can anyone enlighten me regarding
her and Richards childhood - would they have spent a lot of their childhood together or
was one in Warwick Castle the other Middleham?

Did they have any more children other than Edward - dying very young or miscarriages?

The story regarding her being disguised as a kitchen maid hidden from Richard - I would
love to think that it was she who escaped Clarences clutches and hid herself perhaps
getting a message to Richard regarding her whereabouts - I say this because for her to go
along with the original scenario i.e. hiding from Richard- she must have been
absolutely terrified of him. Surely if they had known each other well in childhood she
would have had no reason to fear him. After all at the end of the day she did marry him &
its seems the marriage was successful. If Clarence had wanted to hide his young sister-
in-law away surely he would have chosen somewhere more suitable than a greasy kitchen.
And wouldnt Isabel have had some to say about it. Also my perception is that Clarence was
pretty unbalanced - more likely it was Clarence she was afraid of. After Richard left
London to go up north just before she was disappeared if he intended marrying her he
must have been sending her letters/messages. Clarence feeling how he felt about
proposed match - did he go off the deep end when he found they were corresponding -
enough to make anyone want to escape even to a 15th century cook shop which must
have been dire enough for anyone leave alone a cosseted noblemans daughter. At the
end of the day Richard did the honourable thing and took her to sancturary - I wonder why
she did not choose to go into santuary herself rather then the cook shop. How long was
she there?

Lastly does anyone think that maybe Edward of Middleham was poisoned? I have read he
fell sick and died very quickly and in pain. I wouldnt put it beyond Moreton or Margaret
Beaufort to have done such a thing. Afterall the consequences of Richard losing his only
legitimate heir were disasterous.

I know there are no conclusive answers to the above but its nice to hear others thoughts!!
Eileen


--- In , "stephenmlark" <smlark@t...> wrote:
> Where is everyone? No messages for seven days.
> Can we think of something to talk about?

A bit OT but not really: Joan of Arc was burned at the stake on this
day in 1431.

Of the various books I've read on her so far, my favorite is still the
Frances Gies bio.

Maria
elena@...

Given the dearth of recent messages, almost nothing is off-topic.
----- Original Message -----
From: Maria
To:
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Joan of Arc


A bit OT but not really: Joan of Arc was burned at the stake on this
day in 1431.

Of the various books I've read on her so far, my favorite is still the
Frances Gies bio.

Maria
elena@...






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> A bit OT but not really: Joan of Arc was burned at
> the stake on this day in 1431.
>
> Of the various books I've read on her so far, my
> favorite is still the Frances Gies bio.
>
> Maria

Have you read 'Joan of Arc, Her Story' by Rýgine
Pernoud, and if so, what did you think of it?
Jane

Have you read 'Joan of Arc, Her Story' by Régine
Pernoud, and if so, what did you think of it?
Jane
===================

I have a couple of Pernouds, including the last one she wrote. Though I
read them all thoroughly, I don't really recall them, which means they
didn't make much impression on me. Don't know why, and will have to
re-read them to find out. One thing I do recall is that one of them
tells us the list of deaths that brought Charles to the throne, and
illustrates how he had to learn on the job. Together with Gies'
compassionate and mildly-revisionist sketch of Charles, it helped to
expand and revise my black-and-white view on Joan, her career, her own
management of it, and of the people around her.

Maria
elena@...

On May 30, 2005, at 18:38, Maria wrote:

> I have a couple of Pernouds,
every evening before dinner Maria?
:-)
Paul

I would have thought the most likely thing to have killed Edward of
Middleham was appendicitis. It fits in with the description of the
symptoms and was surely an automatic death sentence in those days.
I am sure that there had been any suspicion of foul play they would
not have kept that quiet.

Angela








--- In , "eileen"
<ebatesparrot@y...> wrote:
> Yes Stephen - I would like to talk about Anne Neville - can anyone
enlighten me regarding
> her and Richards childhood - would they have spent a lot of their
childhood together or
> was one in Warwick Castle the other Middleham?
>
> Did they have any more children other than Edward - dying very
young or miscarriages?
>
> The story regarding her being disguised as a kitchen maid hidden
from Richard - I would
> love to think that it was she who escaped Clarences clutches and
hid herself perhaps
> getting a message to Richard regarding her whereabouts - I say
this because for her to go
> along with the original scenario i.e. hiding from Richard- she
must have been
> absolutely terrified of him. Surely if they had known each other
well in childhood she
> would have had no reason to fear him. After all at the end of the
day she did marry him &
> its seems the marriage was successful. If Clarence had wanted to
hide his young sister-
> in-law away surely he would have chosen somewhere more suitable
than a greasy kitchen.
> And wouldnt Isabel have had some to say about it. Also my
perception is that Clarence was
> pretty unbalanced - more likely it was Clarence she was afraid
of. After Richard left
> London to go up north just before she was disappeared if he
intended marrying her he
> must have been sending her letters/messages. Clarence feeling how
he felt about
> proposed match - did he go off the deep end when he found they
were corresponding -
> enough to make anyone want to escape even to a 15th century cook
shop which must
> have been dire enough for anyone leave alone a cosseted noblemans
daughter. At the
> end of the day Richard did the honourable thing and took her to
sancturary - I wonder why
> she did not choose to go into santuary herself rather then the
cook shop. How long was
> she there?
>
> Lastly does anyone think that maybe Edward of Middleham was
poisoned? I have read he
> fell sick and died very quickly and in pain. I wouldnt put it
beyond Moreton or Margaret
> Beaufort to have done such a thing. Afterall the consequences of
Richard losing his only
> legitimate heir were disasterous.
>
> I know there are no conclusive answers to the above but its nice
to hear others thoughts!!
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In , "stephenmlark"
<smlark@t...> wrote:
> > Where is everyone? No messages for seven days.
> > Can we think of something to talk about?

On May 30, 2005, at 18:38, Maria wrote:

> I have a couple of Pernouds,
every evening before dinner Maria?
:-)
Paul

====================
Oh, at the very least!

Joan herself liked to a bit of bread soaked in wine, incidentally.

Maria
elena@...