12 July 1472

12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey

well we don't actually know where they married, except that it wasn't
in the Abbey.
Paul

On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:

> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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you're never too old to launch your dreams

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paultrevor@b...>
wrote:
> well we don't actually know where they married, except that it wasn't
> in the Abbey.
> Paul
>
Ah even better, a small, private but beautiful chapel, with the columns entwined with ivy,
madonna lillies and white roses - how romantic is that!

Your never too old to be a romantic!
best wishes Eileen


> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
>
> > 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
> >
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> you're never too old to launch your dreams

Oh please!!!!!:-)
I remember reading somewhere that St Peter Ad Vincula in the Tower,
or even the chapel inside the White Tower as possibles. No lilies,
roses, vines etc there!
Paul

On Jul 12, 2005, at 22:08, eileen wrote:

> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale
> <paultrevor@b...>
> wrote:
>
>> well we don't actually know where they married, except that it wasn't
>> in the Abbey.
>> Paul
>>
>>
> Ah even better, a small, private but beautiful chapel, with the
> columns entwined with ivy,
> madonna lillies and white roses - how romantic is that!
>
> Your never too old to be a romantic!
> best wishes Eileen
>
>
>
>> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>> you're never too old to launch your dreams
>>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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you're never too old to launch your dreams

Not quite related, but the last time I was at Westminster Abbey,
specialists were doing conservation work on the tomb of Anne Neville.
There were still some very lovely fragments of painted borders with, I
believe, a sort of knotwork type design.


> >> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
> >>>

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paultrevor@b...>
wrote:
> Oh please!!!!!:-)
> I remember reading somewhere that St Peter Ad Vincula in the Tower,
> or even the chapel inside the White Tower as possibles. No lilies,
> roses, vines etc there!
> Paul
>
Doh! Well.... a little bunch of sweetpeas maybe??


Your never too old to be a drip!!!


> On Jul 12, 2005, at 22:08, eileen wrote:
>
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paultrevor@b...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> well we don't actually know where they married, except that it wasn't
> >> in the Abbey.
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> > Ah even better, a small, private but beautiful chapel, with the
> > columns entwined with ivy,
> > madonna lillies and white roses - how romantic is that!
> >
> > Your never too old to be a romantic!
> > best wishes Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> you're never too old to launch your dreams
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> you're never too old to launch your dreams

--- In , "meenivettle" <meenivettle@y...> wrote:
> Not quite related, but the last time I was at Westminster Abbey,
> specialists were doing conservation work on the tomb of Anne Neville.
> There were still some very lovely fragments of painted borders with, I
> believe, a sort of knotwork type design.
>

I would be really interested to know where Anne's tomb is in the Abbey as the last time I
was there, a very long time ago, the nearest thing I could find was a plaque incribed that
Anne was buried somewhere 'nearby' - are they now, in fact able to pinpoint her actual
tomb - does anyone know? If so, I would most certainly pay a visit to the Abbey. I had
previously believed that Anne did not have a proper tomb/monument, as Richard dying
himself so soon after, had never got around to having something suitable erected in
Anne's memory.

best wishes Eileen
>
> > >> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
> > >>>

Eileen I love the idea of beautiful flowers
[especially sweetpeas], romance etc., at Richard's and
Annes's wedding, I understand that he loved her very
much, did she love him as much? Most of all what kind
of a husband and a father was he? I always get the
impression that he had a very good sense of humour and
that once he laid his love and loyatly down it stayed
for life......I have always liked Richard [even though
every time I think of him, I see either Sir Laurence
Olivier or Peter Sellers, in my mind's eye] I see him
with a twinkle in his eye.....can anyone give me a
tid-bits about him, things that are not generally
known and any insight into the "real Richard" any
likes or dislikes he had, favourite colours, gems,
smells, food, wine etc.,...Many thanks...
--- eileen <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
--- In , Paul
Trevor Bale <paultrevor@b...>
wrote:
> Oh please!!!!!:-)
> I remember reading somewhere that St Peter Ad
Vincula in the Tower,
> or even the chapel inside the White Tower as
possibles. No lilies,
> roses, vines etc there!
> Paul
>
Doh! Well.... a little bunch of sweetpeas maybe??


Your never too old to be a drip!!!


> On Jul 12, 2005, at 22:08, eileen wrote:
>
> > --- In ,
Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paultrevor@b...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> well we don't actually know where they married,
except that it wasn't
> >> in the Abbey.
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> > Ah even better, a small, private but beautiful
chapel, with the
> > columns entwined with ivy,
> > madonna lillies and white roses - how romantic is
that!
> >
> > Your never too old to be a romantic!
> > best wishes Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in
Westminster Abbey
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> you're never too old to launch your dreams
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> you're never too old to launch your dreams




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--- In , "eileen" > I would be
really interested to know where Anne's tomb is in the Abbey as the
last time I
> was there, a very long time ago, the nearest thing I could find
was a plaque incribed that Anne was buried somewhere 'nearby'




I recall a similar plaque from the late '70s, and would love to know
if the site of Anne's tomb has now been located with greater
certainty. [I don't suppose the article was confusing 'our' Anne's
tomb with that of R II's wife, Anne of Bohemia? I do recall seeing
their twin effigies, and their tomb is probaly now due for some
refurbishmenr....?]

On a related note: tombs in cathedrals and churches etc.
The coffin is not placed inside these visible 'box' tombs, is it?
Or, is it?
I have always wanted to know.
I once asked a guide at an abbey in the Midlands, and he replied
that the coffin was placed, or even 'stacked' with others, in one of
several crypts beneath the floor. That the tomb we see is merely a
memorial, a monument....
So, are there viable lists of such interment sites?
I recall seeing the royal tombs in a crypt in a church in Stockholm
and being rather shocked at how disorganised it all seemed, although
I was only 24 and rather a neat-freak at the time.

Second question:
Was this visible, public tomb all ready on the day of burial, or -
as I suppose - was it constructed only later, once finance,
materials, skilled tradesmen and artisans and regal will had made it
so..?

Thanks in advance!

Ana

I checked with the Abbey. It was actually Anne of Bohemia's tomb,
not Anne Neville's. My apologies for the slip.

>
> I would be really interested to know where Anne's tomb is in the
Abbey as the last time I
> was there, a very long time ago, the nearest thing I could find
was a plaque incribed that
> Anne was buried somewhere 'nearby' - are they now, in fact able
to pinpoint her actual
> tomb - does anyone know? If so, I would most certainly pay a
visit to the Abbey. I had
> previously believed that Anne did not have a proper tomb/monument,
as Richard dying
> himself so soon after, had never got around to having something
suitable erected in
> Anne's memory.
>
> best wishes Eileen
> >
> > > >> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
> > > >>>

--- In , "meenivettle" <meenivettle@y...> wrote:
> I checked with the Abbey. It was actually Anne of Bohemia's tomb,
> not Anne Neville's. My apologies for the slip.

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to find this out.

Best wishes Eileen



> > I would be really interested to know where Anne's tomb is in the
> Abbey as the last time I
> > was there, a very long time ago, the nearest thing I could find
> was a plaque incribed that
> > Anne was buried somewhere 'nearby' - are they now, in fact able
> to pinpoint her actual
> > tomb - does anyone know? If so, I would most certainly pay a
> visit to the Abbey. I had
> > previously believed that Anne did not have a proper tomb/monument,
> as Richard dying
> > himself so soon after, had never got around to having something
> suitable erected in
> > Anne's memory.
> >
> > best wishes Eileen
> > >
> > > > >> On Jul 12, 2005, at 15:29, eileen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> 12 July 1472 - Richard married Anne in Westminster Abbey
> > > > >>>

I am reading a shortened version of Samuel Pepys' diary, and in it he
describes how he organises a burial in a London church. Basically it
was a case of move everyone else up. I suppose royalty would have
been different, but they were usually buried as near to the altar as
possible. However, burials had been taking place at the Abbey for
several hundred years when Anne died, and I would think several
burials must have been disturbed to accommodate her. All of this must
make for a difficult indentification of any remains. Is there any
indication that Richard intended to be buried with her?

Something I am not clear about is Edward's burial. Did he have a
grand state affair. It's not even clear where he was buried, but he
was the Prince of Wales.

--- In , "dixonian2004" <sally-turfrey@h...>
wrote:
> I>
> Something I am not clear about is Edward's burial. Did he have a
> grand state affair. It's not even clear where he was buried, but he
> was the Prince of Wales.

I read somewhere that Richard's little son was in buried at Coverham Abbey, about 2
miles from Middleham. Only the Abbey's gatehouse remains today so I presume it was
one of those flattened during the Reformation. As Edward died at Middleham Coverham
would have been the ideal place to have Edward buried. I know some believe him to be
buried at Sherrif Hutton church, but why take him there for burial, when Middleham had
been his home and Richards favourite home. I would not think a small church would
have been regarded as suitable resting place for a Prince of Wales. The memorial to
Edward in the church is just a cenotaph not a tomb. It is not even known for sure that it
does represent Edward of Middleham - but if it is not him who is it?

best wishes Eileen

--- In , "dixonian2004" <sally-turfrey@h...>
wrote:
> I am reading a shortened version of Samuel Pepys' diary, and in it he
> describes how he organises a burial in a London church. Basically it
> was a case of move everyone else up. I suppose royalty would have
> been different, but they were usually buried as near to the altar as
> possible. However, burials had been taking place at the Abbey for
> several hundred years when Anne died, and I would think several
> burials must have been disturbed to accommodate her. All of this must
> make for a difficult indentification of any remains. Is there any
> indication that Richard intended to be buried with her?

Sorry I should have said this in my previous posting - but I think a lot of burials in
Westminster Abbey the coffins go into vaults rather than being buried (in the ground). For
example, if my memory is correct Mary Queen of Scots coffin rests in a vault with, among
other coffins, the coffins of Queens Anne's many children. Am I correct in thinking that
many of the 'tombs' we see in various abbeys/churches are in fact cenotaphs? Not all of
course, as sometimes bones have been stolen which I think is what happened to Anne of
Bohemia and also Edward the Confessor. Edwards bones were returned by a descendant
of the boy that had stolen them. Its all a bit confusing really.

Best wishes Eileen
>
> Something I am not clear about is Edward's burial. Did he have a
> grand state affair. It's not even clear where he was buried, but he
> was the Prince of Wales.

Is this not yet another of the mysteries that surround Richard?
A Prince of Wales would surely have been buried somewhere with a lot
of pomp and ceremony, if not brought to London for burial in the
Abbey, then perhaps in York Minster. But in a small church like
Sheriff Hutton or even in a relatively small community like Coverham
seems odd to put it mildly. Of course Richard may have been thinking
ahead. He was planning a Collegiate at Middleham so wherever the
Prince was buried could have just been temporary. Perhaps later, like
his parents at Fortheringhay, he would have reburied his son in his
newly founded Collegiate Church at Middleham.
Paul

On Jul 15, 2005, at 13:26, eileen wrote:

> --- In , "dixonian2004"
> <sally-turfrey@h...>
> wrote:
>
>> I>
>> Something I am not clear about is Edward's burial. Did he have a
>> grand state affair. It's not even clear where he was buried, but he
>> was the Prince of Wales.
>>
>
> I read somewhere that Richard's little son was in buried at
> Coverham Abbey, about 2
> miles from Middleham. Only the Abbey's gatehouse remains today so
> I presume it was
> one of those flattened during the Reformation. As Edward died at
> Middleham Coverham
> would have been the ideal place to have Edward buried. I know some
> believe him to be
> buried at Sherrif Hutton church, but why take him there for burial,
> when Middleham had
> been his home and Richards favourite home. I would not think a
> small church would
> have been regarded as suitable resting place for a Prince of
> Wales. The memorial to
> Edward in the church is just a cenotaph not a tomb. It is not even
> known for sure that it
> does represent Edward of Middleham - but if it is not him who is it?
>
> best wishes Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

you're never too old to launch your dreams

There were at least two large abbeys near to Middleham which would
appear to have been more suitable for a Prince of Wales. Perhaps
Coverham had some special significance for Richard. I had never heard
of it until recently, and it seems to have been a fairly minor house.
I had always accepted that Edward was buried at Sheriff Hutton.
Richard had strong links to Barnard Castle too. If the "tomb" at
Sheriff Hutton is not that of Edward, then it was obviously for
someone of importance. The possible plan for later re-burial seems
good.