Slightly OT: Weir's new book

Yesterday, I went to a talk given by Alison Weir at the Smithsonian.
She discussed her new book about Isabelle of France, wife of Edward
II. During the talk, she shared with the audience a
rather...curious...theory.

She has apparently found evidence that Edward II did not in fact die
at Berkeley Castle. Instead, she asserted, he escaped and fled to the
Continent, where he ended up as a hermit monk in Umbria.

Anyone heard this one before?

--- In , "meenivettle"
<meenivettle@y...> wrote:
>
> Yesterday, I went to a talk given by Alison Weir at the Smithsonian.
> She discussed her new book about Isabelle of France, wife of Edward
> II. During the talk, she shared with the audience a
> rather...curious...theory.
>
> She has apparently found evidence that Edward II did not in fact die
> at Berkeley Castle. Instead, she asserted, he escaped and fled to the
> Continent, where he ended up as a hermit monk in Umbria.
>
> Anyone heard this one before?

It seems there are always such stories...eventually, one may prove
true. (Though proving it will be a bit of a problem.) There are "he's
not dead/he didn't die when and how it is said, he's just hiding/in
exile/biding his time" stories about everyone from the Dauphin of
France to the "Princes in the Tower" to Jesse James to John Wilkes
Booth to Jim Morrison to Elvis. Maybe its partly wishful thinking and
partly the love of a conspiracy story.

Personally, I enjoy reading them and, if sufficiently interested,
researching them till I feel I can draw my own conclusions. There is
almost always something to think about, interesting details and bits of
contradictory evidence that the official story doesn't include. It's
good to examine divergent possibilities -- as someone said, if everyone
thinks alike, no one is thinking very much.

Katy

On Oct 19, 2005, at 14:41, meenivettle wrote:

> Yesterday, I went to a talk given by Alison Weir at the Smithsonian.
> She discussed her new book about Isabelle of France, wife of Edward
> II. During the talk, she shared with the audience a
> rather...curious...theory.
>
> She has apparently found evidence that Edward II did not in fact die
> at Berkeley Castle. Instead, she asserted, he escaped and fled to the
> Continent, where he ended up as a hermit monk in Umbria.
>
> Anyone heard this one before?
>

Oh she does make up a good yarn does our Wier. Halloween is almost
here, maybe it's one of her tricks?:-)
Paul







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"a winner is a dreamer who just won't quit"

Indeed, there always are such stories and imposters claiming to be the dead king or dead heir. The most recent is the False anastasia (though it seems that she really believed she was Anastasia!) The fact that these tales are so common is precisely the reason for my scepticism over the Edward II survival theory - why should this one be any more truthful than the others.

What I find interesting about the book is that Weir has set out to do a whitewash of Isabella, just as she sought to whitewash Mary Queen of Scots in her previous book. Is Weir a closet feminist? If a traditional villain is a man, he is an out and out villiain; if a woman, she has been the subject of a smear campaign.

Ann

oregonkaty <[email protected]> wrote:


It seems there are always such stories...eventually, one may prove
true. (Though proving it will be a bit of a problem.) There are "he's
not dead/he didn't die when and how it is said, he's just hiding/in
exile/biding his time" stories about everyone from the Dauphin of
France to the "Princes in the Tower" to Jesse James to John Wilkes
Booth to Jim Morrison to Elvis. Maybe its partly wishful thinking and
partly the love of a conspiracy story.

Personally, I enjoy reading them and, if sufficiently interested,
researching them till I feel I can draw my own conclusions. There is
almost always something to think about, interesting details and bits of
contradictory evidence that the official story doesn't include. It's
good to examine divergent possibilities -- as someone said, if everyone
thinks alike, no one is thinking very much.

Katy






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The less I say about Ms Weir the better, I think. However, there were some mysterious goings-on around Berkeley Castle, including some plot by Scots (!) to rescue Edward. The details elude me, as it is not my era, but I am sure anyone interested could find a lot of food for thought in the relevant histories. Attempts to rescue Edward might, of course, explain why he was killed. If he was.

The saga of Richard II is a close parallel. Many people at the time believed he had escaped to Scotland, and although it's improbable, it's not actually 100% certain that they were wrong. It is certain that the "false Richard" had mysteriously managed to get hold of Richard's privy seal.

Regards
Brian

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@b...>
wrote:
>
> Indeed, there always are such stories and imposters claiming to be
the dead king or dead heir. The most recent is the False anastasia
(though it seems that she really believed she was Anastasia!) The
fact that these tales are so common is precisely the reason for my
scepticism over the Edward II survival theory - why should this one
be any more truthful than the others.
>
> What I find interesting about the book is that Weir has set out to
do a whitewash of Isabella, just as she sought to whitewash Mary
Queen of Scots in her previous book. Is Weir a closet feminist? If a
traditional villain is a man, he is an out and out villiain; if a
woman, she has been the subject of a smear campaign.
>
> Ann
>
Did she not recently publish an Anne Boleyn "biography"?
PS In my opinion, Weir-baiting is NEVER off topic!!!
> oregonkaty <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> It seems there are always such stories...eventually, one may prove
> true. (Though proving it will be a bit of a problem.) There
are "he's
> not dead/he didn't die when and how it is said, he's just
hiding/in
> exile/biding his time" stories about everyone from the Dauphin of
> France to the "Princes in the Tower" to Jesse James to John Wilkes
> Booth to Jim Morrison to Elvis. Maybe its partly wishful thinking
and
> partly the love of a conspiracy story.
>
> Personally, I enjoy reading them and, if sufficiently interested,
> researching them till I feel I can draw my own conclusions. There
is
> almost always something to think about, interesting details and
bits of
> contradictory evidence that the official story doesn't include.
It's
> good to examine divergent possibilities -- as someone said, if
everyone
> thinks alike, no one is thinking very much.
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>

The Scots certainly promoted 'their' Richard, though it was in their political interests to seek to destabilise Henry IV's regime, and after 1406 this 'Richard' was a bargaining counter for the release of the captive James I.

The point about the privy seal is very interesting, but would it not be possible to create a fake seal on the basis of the plentiful seal impressions that must have been around after 1399?

Regards

Ann

Brian Wainwright <Brian@...> wrote:
The saga of Richard II is a close parallel. Many people at the time believed he had escaped to Scotland, and although it's improbable, it's not actually 100% certain that they were wrong. It is certain that the "false Richard" had mysteriously managed to get hold of Richard's privy seal.

Regards
Brian





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--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@b...>
wrote:
>
> The Scots certainly promoted 'their' Richard, though it was in
their political interests to seek to destabilise Henry IV's regime,
and after 1406 this 'Richard' was a bargaining counter for the
release of the captive James I.
>


And there were similar "he survived -- he is merely in hiding biding
his time" stories about Henry Percy -- Hotspur -- to the extent that
eventually his corpse was disinterred and put on display to prove he
was dead.

I was just thinking -- were there any similar stories that Richard
survived Boworth and was hiding and biding, perhaps in the ever-
popular hinterlands of Scotland? After all, supposedly his body was
multilated, before and after death, to the point he was
unrecognizable.

Katy

I've never seen any such story. If anyone believed Richard was still
alive his name would certainly have been used by the 1487 rebels when
they were trying to raise an army in Richmondshire.
Instead, rebellions were always carried out in the name of Edward IV's
sons, or of Clarence's son Warwick.

> I was just thinking -- were there any similar stories that Richard
> survived Boworth and was hiding and biding, perhaps in the ever-
> popular hinterlands of Scotland? After all, supposedly his body was
> multilated, before and after death, to the point he was
> unrecognizable.
>
> Katy
>

The Holy Grail is supposed to be at Berkley Castle, I remember seeing
it when I went there many years ago. Funny, it's never mentioned
these days. And don't forget that one of Edward IV's Black Book of
the Household was found there fairly recently. I wonder what's
happening about that.

--- In , "dixonian2004" <sally-
turfrey@h...> wrote:
>
> The Holy Grail is supposed to be at Berkley Castle, I remember
seeing
> it when I went there many years ago. Funny, it's never mentioned
> these days. And don't forget that one of Edward IV's Black Book
of
> the Household was found there fairly recently. I wonder what's
> happening about that.



{{I don't know, but doesn't it make you **ache** to have the sort of
job/profession/career path/goal in life that would enable you to
wander at will among the corridors and chambers of such a place, and
to discover 'stuff', if such were still there for discovering??
Sadly, I just teach History.....<>mope<>...Yes, a romantic view, but
it's what keeps a lot of people going. And I would dealy love to
know who is interpreting the E4 Black Book and when we can all Share
in the results.}}


Ana
>

i haven't really followed info on edward ii, however, i do have a
smattering of info because of my overall interest in the medieval era.

perhaps ms weir and others following where royals may have hidden
should inspect ye olde irish records.

even king john lackland had his tenure in ireland. e2's best buddy
peirs gaveston also was there.

earl of march lords, including e4 all have irish connections.
you need to be able to read latin to gain an understanding of this url.
but there are a significant number of peerage names and kinships here.
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/L100001/text001.html

btw, i'm new to the group, and will be doing hit n run type postings
for the next several weeks. hopefully in the new year i'll have the
time not to be severely distracted from my passion regarding richard
iii and associated personalities.

regards
roslyn
--- In , "meenivettle"
<meenivettle@y...> wrote:
>
> Yesterday, I went to a talk given by Alison Weir at the Smithsonian.
> She discussed her new book about Isabelle of France, wife of Edward
> II. During the talk, she shared with the audience a
> rather...curious...theory.
>
> She has apparently found evidence that Edward II did not in fact die
> at Berkeley Castle. Instead, she asserted, he escaped and fled to the
> Continent, where he ended up as a hermit monk in Umbria.
>
> Anyone heard this one before?
>

Her idea is a mirror of the concept put forward by Paul Doherty in
'Isabella and the Strange Death of Edward II', which is one of his
works of non-fiction. Doherty did his doctoral dissertation on Edward
and Isabella.