Lord Hoo and Hastings

I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died 1454), and
two questions cropped up.

Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he actually Lord
of the Town or castle of Hastings?

Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever was
inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo. Others that
the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim the
castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
definitive Hever history?

http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/lexarm.html
for hastings/grey dispute

and i just made a majorly interesting while looking for a webpage i know that goes into more detail regarding the grey/hastings dispute.

but, everyone should check out this website. loads of c/of/a descriptions.
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees146text.pdf

most interesting, for me... is gerard stillington. (unknown year). his shield is recorded as that of the grey family. a quick snoop at rootsweb, nets only one robert stillington..the correct one, with his ancestry stalled with his father.

anyhow..i'll keep digging for the more detailed grey/hastings dispute info.

btw..anne boleyn has grey ancestry. it's about 4 or 5 generations back, but it's still there.

roslyn
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died 1454), and
two questions cropped up.

Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he actually Lord
of the Town or castle of Hastings?

Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever was
inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo. Others that
the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim the
castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
definitive Hever history?





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a vertible smorgasbord here folks...break out your latin dictionaries and olde english mindset. it's the directory for the pdf file for yorkshire visitations. (below)
the file/northerncounties..
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/
has earl of salibury wills..this website is loaded with info


okay..i'm overwhelmed..dumbfounded really. i backed into the url a bit more and found..calendar of patent rolls
http://www.uiowa.edu/%7Eacadtech/patentrolls/

start here for more and more links..1350-1450 governing feudal england.
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/

enjoy
roslyn

fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/lexarm.html
for hastings/grey dispute

and i just made a majorly interesting while looking for a webpage i know that goes into more detail regarding the grey/hastings dispute.

but, everyone should check out this website. loads of c/of/a descriptions.
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees146text.pdf

most interesting, for me... is gerard stillington. (unknown year). his shield is recorded as that of the grey family. a quick snoop at rootsweb, nets only one robert stillington..the correct one, with his ancestry stalled with his father.

anyhow..i'll keep digging for the more detailed grey/hastings dispute info.

btw..anne boleyn has grey ancestry. it's about 4 or 5 generations back, but it's still there.

roslyn
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died 1454), and
two questions cropped up.

Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he actually Lord
of the Town or castle of Hastings?

Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever was
inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo. Others that
the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim the
castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
definitive Hever history?





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---------------------------------

Thanks, some of these links look VERY interesting! It would be
particularly useful for me to be able to browse the CP Rolls. Pity
they only go up to 1452!

I should be a little clearer in my queries: you mention the
Grey/Hastings dispute. As I recall Grey was the hereditary heir, but
ended up with only the bulk of the Hastings and Valence lands. The
castle of Abergavenney went to Beauchamp, and the Earldom of Pembroke
was kept by the King. Most Grey of Ruthyn arms show quarters of
Valence and Hastings. When a Lord Grey was captured in the hundred
years war he had to sell off most of these lands to pay his ransom,
including the old Valence caput of Sutton Valence (bought I think by
the Cliffords).

However my questions were in regard to Lord Thomas Hoo, who was
sometimes called Lord "Hoo and Hastings". Since I know of no
relationship with the Hastings family I was wondering if the title
was derived from ownership of Hastings itself?


--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@y...> wrote:
>
> a vertible smorgasbord here folks...break out your latin
dictionaries and olde english mindset. it's the directory for the pdf
file for yorkshire visitations. (below)
> the file/northerncounties..
> http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/
> has earl of salibury wills..this website is loaded with info
>
>
> okay..i'm overwhelmed..dumbfounded really. i backed into the url
a bit more and found..calendar of patent rolls
> http://www.uiowa.edu/%7Eacadtech/patentrolls/
>
> start here for more and more links..1350-1450 governing feudal
england.
> http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/
>
> enjoy
> roslyn
>
> fayre rose <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/lexarm.html
> for hastings/grey dispute
>
> and i just made a majorly interesting while looking for a webpage
i know that goes into more detail regarding the grey/hastings dispute.
>
> but, everyone should check out this website. loads of c/of/a
descriptions.
> http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees146text.pdf
>
> most interesting, for me... is gerard stillington. (unknown
year). his shield is recorded as that of the grey family. a quick
snoop at rootsweb, nets only one robert stillington..the correct one,
with his ancestry stalled with his father.
>
> anyhow..i'll keep digging for the more detailed grey/hastings
dispute info.
>
> btw..anne boleyn has grey ancestry. it's about 4 or 5 generations
back, but it's still there.
>
> roslyn
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died 1454),
and
> two questions cropped up.
>
> Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he actually
Lord
> of the Town or castle of Hastings?
>
> Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever was
> inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo. Others
that
> the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim the
> castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
> definitive Hever history?
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom florist United
kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel
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> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Service.
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> ---------------------------------
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>
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>
>
>
>

i know nothing about thomas hoo, lord hastings. however, i went to rootsweb.com and surfed for him. using his death date +/- 5 years, and clicking on desc. sources, notes fields..narrowed the hits to 75.

here's an interesting tidbit on him.
1st Lord Hoo and Hastings. He was esquire of the chamber to Thomas Beaufort, duke of Exeter. He was sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire on February 10, 1429/30, and on June 18, 1434, he was in France. He took part in the operations in the Pays de Caux in 1436. He wqas captain of Verneuil in 1441 and bailiff of Mantes. He was chancellor in France and Normandy on March 18, 1444. He was Knight of the Garter on August 16, 1445. On July 19, 1445, he had a grant to him and his heirs of the castle, lordship, barony, and honour of Hastings. On June 2, 1448, for his service in France and Normandy, he was created lord Hoo of Hoo, in Bedfordshire, and of Hastings in Sussex. His immediate heir male was his half brother, Thomas Hoo, who died on October 8, 1486.

so..he became lord hastings in 1445.
also, one of his spouses welles, i'm reasonably sure connects to the hastings family.

but have a go at rootsweb.com look for verifiable sources. i.e. CP and Douglas Richardson. the bit above is from these two.

larry overmire's gedcom offers a very long bit of info.

use caution when surfing rootsweb sources. some gedcom owners will purposely incorporate spelling mistakes or other minor errors as a way of tracking if their information has been copied.

most genealogical types are very generous with sharing info. email the owners of websites to query if they have more info...unless they specifically state..all their info is on line.

also with notes found on rootsweb.com, one can take a phrase or name and google for more info. rootsweb really is a great source for finding leads to other information...just always..*always* be really sure you've tapped into a verifiable source. there are a lot of dud genealogies on line too.
regards
roslyn

p.s. when you get to a *good* gedcom and you want to track the ancestry a little easier than clicking the parents, grandparents names etc. click the pedigree link at the top of the page. you'll get a quicker view of the ancestry of an individual.


theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
Thanks, some of these links look VERY interesting! It would be
particularly useful for me to be able to browse the CP Rolls. Pity
they only go up to 1452!

I should be a little clearer in my queries: you mention the
Grey/Hastings dispute. As I recall Grey was the hereditary heir, but
ended up with only the bulk of the Hastings and Valence lands. The
castle of Abergavenney went to Beauchamp, and the Earldom of Pembroke
was kept by the King. Most Grey of Ruthyn arms show quarters of
Valence and Hastings. When a Lord Grey was captured in the hundred
years war he had to sell off most of these lands to pay his ransom,
including the old Valence caput of Sutton Valence (bought I think by
the Cliffords).

However my questions were in regard to Lord Thomas Hoo, who was
sometimes called Lord "Hoo and Hastings". Since I know of no
relationship with the Hastings family I was wondering if the title
was derived from ownership of Hastings itself?


--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@y...> wrote:
>
> a vertible smorgasbord here folks...break out your latin
dictionaries and olde english mindset. it's the directory for the pdf
file for yorkshire visitations. (below)
> the file/northerncounties..
> http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/
> has earl of salibury wills..this website is loaded with info
>
>
> okay..i'm overwhelmed..dumbfounded really. i backed into the url
a bit more and found..calendar of patent rolls
> http://www.uiowa.edu/%7Eacadtech/patentrolls/
>
> start here for more and more links..1350-1450 governing feudal
england.
> http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/
>
> enjoy
> roslyn
>
> fayre rose <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/lexarm.html
> for hastings/grey dispute
>
> and i just made a majorly interesting while looking for a webpage
i know that goes into more detail regarding the grey/hastings dispute.
>
> but, everyone should check out this website. loads of c/of/a
descriptions.
> http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees146text.pdf
>
> most interesting, for me... is gerard stillington. (unknown
year). his shield is recorded as that of the grey family. a quick
snoop at rootsweb, nets only one robert stillington..the correct one,
with his ancestry stalled with his father.
>
> anyhow..i'll keep digging for the more detailed grey/hastings
dispute info.
>
> btw..anne boleyn has grey ancestry. it's about 4 or 5 generations
back, but it's still there.
>
> roslyn
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died 1454),
and
> two questions cropped up.
>
> Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he actually
Lord
> of the Town or castle of Hastings?
>
> Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever was
> inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo. Others
that
> the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim the
> castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
> definitive Hever history?
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower
delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom florist United
kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Service.
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>
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>
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---------------------------------

Great, that answers the Hastings mystery. It looks like this is
another example of Edward IV cheating heirs of their inheritance
though, as he seems to have granted Hastings to his bed buddy William
Hastings when he made him a Lord.

-- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@y...> wrote:
>
> i know nothing about thomas hoo, lord hastings. however, i went to
rootsweb.com and surfed for him. using his death date +/- 5 years,
and clicking on desc. sources, notes fields..narrowed the hits to 75.
>
> here's an interesting tidbit on him.
> 1st Lord Hoo and Hastings. He was esquire of the chamber to
Thomas Beaufort, duke of Exeter. He was sheriff of Bedfordshire and
Buckinghamshire on February 10, 1429/30, and on June 18, 1434, he was
in France. He took part in the operations in the Pays de Caux in
1436. He wqas captain of Verneuil in 1441 and bailiff of Mantes. He
was chancellor in France and Normandy on March 18, 1444. He was
Knight of the Garter on August 16, 1445. On July 19, 1445, he had a
grant to him and his heirs of the castle, lordship, barony, and
honour of Hastings. On June 2, 1448, for his service in France and
Normandy, he was created lord Hoo of Hoo, in Bedfordshire, and of
Hastings in Sussex. His immediate heir male was his half brother,
Thomas Hoo, who died on October 8, 1486.
>
> so..he became lord hastings in 1445.
> also, one of his spouses welles, i'm reasonably sure connects to
the hastings family.
>
> but have a go at rootsweb.com look for verifiable sources. i.e.
CP and Douglas Richardson. the bit above is from these two.
>
> larry overmire's gedcom offers a very long bit of info.
>
> use caution when surfing rootsweb sources. some gedcom owners
will purposely incorporate spelling mistakes or other minor errors as
a way of tracking if their information has been copied.
>
> most genealogical types are very generous with sharing info.
email the owners of websites to query if they have more info...unless
they specifically state..all their info is on line.
>
> also with notes found on rootsweb.com, one can take a phrase or
name and google for more info. rootsweb really is a great source for
finding leads to other information...just always..*always* be really
sure you've tapped into a verifiable source. there are a lot of dud
genealogies on line too.
> regards
> roslyn
>
> p.s. when you get to a *good* gedcom and you want to track the
ancestry a little easier than clicking the parents, grandparents
names etc. click the pedigree link at the top of the page. you'll get
a quicker view of the ancestry of an individual.
>
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> Thanks, some of these links look VERY interesting! It would be
> particularly useful for me to be able to browse the CP Rolls. Pity
> they only go up to 1452!
>
> I should be a little clearer in my queries: you mention the
> Grey/Hastings dispute. As I recall Grey was the hereditary heir,
but
> ended up with only the bulk of the Hastings and Valence lands. The
> castle of Abergavenney went to Beauchamp, and the Earldom of
Pembroke
> was kept by the King. Most Grey of Ruthyn arms show quarters of
> Valence and Hastings. When a Lord Grey was captured in the hundred
> years war he had to sell off most of these lands to pay his ransom,
> including the old Valence caput of Sutton Valence (bought I think
by
> the Cliffords).
>
> However my questions were in regard to Lord Thomas Hoo, who was
> sometimes called Lord "Hoo and Hastings". Since I know of no
> relationship with the Hastings family I was wondering if the title
> was derived from ownership of Hastings itself?
>
>
> --- In , fayre rose
> <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> >
> > a vertible smorgasbord here folks...break out your latin
> dictionaries and olde english mindset. it's the directory for the
pdf
> file for yorkshire visitations. (below)
> > the file/northerncounties..
> > http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/
> > has earl of salibury wills..this website is loaded with info
> >
> >
> > okay..i'm overwhelmed..dumbfounded really. i backed into the
url
> a bit more and found..calendar of patent rolls
> > http://www.uiowa.edu/%7Eacadtech/patentrolls/
> >
> > start here for more and more links..1350-1450 governing feudal
> england.
> > http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/
> >
> > enjoy
> > roslyn
> >
> > fayre rose <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> > http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/lexarm.html
> > for hastings/grey dispute
> >
> > and i just made a majorly interesting while looking for a
webpage
> i know that goes into more detail regarding the grey/hastings
dispute.
> >
> > but, everyone should check out this website. loads of c/of/a
> descriptions.
> > http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees146text.pdf
> >
> > most interesting, for me... is gerard stillington. (unknown
> year). his shield is recorded as that of the grey family. a quick
> snoop at rootsweb, nets only one robert stillington..the correct
one,
> with his ancestry stalled with his father.
> >
> > anyhow..i'll keep digging for the more detailed grey/hastings
> dispute info.
> >
> > btw..anne boleyn has grey ancestry. it's about 4 or 5
generations
> back, but it's still there.
> >
> > roslyn
> > theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> > I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died
1454),
> and
> > two questions cropped up.
> >
> > Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he
actually
> Lord
> > of the Town or castle of Hastings?
> >
> > Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever
was
> > inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo. Others
> that
> > the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim
the
> > castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
> > definitive Hever history?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower
> delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom florist United
> kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> >
> > Visit your group "" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
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> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>

Sorry, it's not as simple as that. The man in question was Thomas,
Lord Hoo of Hastings whereas the one we know more of was William,
Lord Hastings of Ashby de la Zouche. Totally unrelated, both titles
can exist simultaneously. Similarly, today we have a Duke of Somerset
whose surname is Seymour and another peer whose surname is Somerset.
Confusing but totally distinct.

--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
>
> Great, that answers the Hastings mystery. It looks like this is
> another example of Edward IV cheating heirs of their inheritance
> though, as he seems to have granted Hastings to his bed buddy
William
> Hastings when he made him a Lord.
>
> -- In , fayre rose
> <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> >
> > i know nothing about thomas hoo, lord hastings. however, i went
to
> rootsweb.com and surfed for him. using his death date +/- 5 years,
> and clicking on desc. sources, notes fields..narrowed the hits to
75.
> >
> > here's an interesting tidbit on him.
> > 1st Lord Hoo and Hastings. He was esquire of the chamber to
> Thomas Beaufort, duke of Exeter. He was sheriff of Bedfordshire and
> Buckinghamshire on February 10, 1429/30, and on June 18, 1434, he
was
> in France. He took part in the operations in the Pays de Caux in
> 1436. He wqas captain of Verneuil in 1441 and bailiff of Mantes. He
> was chancellor in France and Normandy on March 18, 1444. He was
> Knight of the Garter on August 16, 1445. On July 19, 1445, he had a
> grant to him and his heirs of the castle, lordship, barony, and
> honour of Hastings. On June 2, 1448, for his service in France and
> Normandy, he was created lord Hoo of Hoo, in Bedfordshire, and of
> Hastings in Sussex. His immediate heir male was his half brother,
> Thomas Hoo, who died on October 8, 1486.
> >
> > so..he became lord hastings in 1445.
> > also, one of his spouses welles, i'm reasonably sure connects
to
> the hastings family.
> >
> > but have a go at rootsweb.com look for verifiable sources. i.e.
> CP and Douglas Richardson. the bit above is from these two.
> >
> > larry overmire's gedcom offers a very long bit of info.
> >
> > use caution when surfing rootsweb sources. some gedcom owners
> will purposely incorporate spelling mistakes or other minor errors
as
> a way of tracking if their information has been copied.
> >
> > most genealogical types are very generous with sharing info.
> email the owners of websites to query if they have more
info...unless
> they specifically state..all their info is on line.
> >
> > also with notes found on rootsweb.com, one can take a phrase or
> name and google for more info. rootsweb really is a great source
for
> finding leads to other information...just always..*always* be
really
> sure you've tapped into a verifiable source. there are a lot of dud
> genealogies on line too.
> > regards
> > roslyn
> >
> > p.s. when you get to a *good* gedcom and you want to track the
> ancestry a little easier than clicking the parents, grandparents
> names etc. click the pedigree link at the top of the page. you'll
get
> a quicker view of the ancestry of an individual.
> >
> >
> > theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks, some of these links look VERY interesting! It would be
> > particularly useful for me to be able to browse the CP Rolls.
Pity
> > they only go up to 1452!
> >
> > I should be a little clearer in my queries: you mention the
> > Grey/Hastings dispute. As I recall Grey was the hereditary heir,
> but
> > ended up with only the bulk of the Hastings and Valence lands.
The
> > castle of Abergavenney went to Beauchamp, and the Earldom of
> Pembroke
> > was kept by the King. Most Grey of Ruthyn arms show quarters of
> > Valence and Hastings. When a Lord Grey was captured in the
hundred
> > years war he had to sell off most of these lands to pay his
ransom,
> > including the old Valence caput of Sutton Valence (bought I think
> by
> > the Cliffords).
> >
> > However my questions were in regard to Lord Thomas Hoo, who was
> > sometimes called Lord "Hoo and Hastings". Since I know of no
> > relationship with the Hastings family I was wondering if the
title
> > was derived from ownership of Hastings itself?
> >
> >
> > --- In , fayre rose
> > <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > a vertible smorgasbord here folks...break out your latin
> > dictionaries and olde english mindset. it's the directory for the
> pdf
> > file for yorkshire visitations. (below)
> > > the file/northerncounties..
> > > http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/
> > > has earl of salibury wills..this website is loaded with info
> > >
> > >
> > > okay..i'm overwhelmed..dumbfounded really. i backed into the
> url
> > a bit more and found..calendar of patent rolls
> > > http://www.uiowa.edu/%7Eacadtech/patentrolls/
> > >
> > > start here for more and more links..1350-1450 governing
feudal
> > england.
> > > http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/
> > >
> > > enjoy
> > > roslyn
> > >
> > > fayre rose <fayreroze@y...> wrote:
> > > http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/lexarm.html
> > > for hastings/grey dispute
> > >
> > > and i just made a majorly interesting while looking for a
> webpage
> > i know that goes into more detail regarding the grey/hastings
> dispute.
> > >
> > > but, everyone should check out this website. loads of c/of/a
> > descriptions.
> > >
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees146text.pdf
> > >
> > > most interesting, for me... is gerard stillington. (unknown
> > year). his shield is recorded as that of the grey family. a quick
> > snoop at rootsweb, nets only one robert stillington..the correct
> one,
> > with his ancestry stalled with his father.
> > >
> > > anyhow..i'll keep digging for the more detailed grey/hastings
> > dispute info.
> > >
> > > btw..anne boleyn has grey ancestry. it's about 4 or 5
> generations
> > back, but it's still there.
> > >
> > > roslyn
> > > theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> > > I've been looking into Thomas, Lord Hoo and Hastings (died
> 1454),
> > and
> > > two questions cropped up.
> > >
> > > Firstly, from what did the Hastings title derive? Was he
> actually
> > Lord
> > > of the Town or castle of Hastings?
> > >
> > > Secondly regarding Hever castle. Some sources state that Hever
> was
> > > inherited by the Boleyns from Anne, heiress of Lord Hoo.
Others
> > that
> > > the Boleyns bought the castle in the 1460s. Others still claim
> the
> > > castle was the property of Lord Cobham. Does anyone know the
> > > definitive Hever history?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>

I'm aware of the distinction between the two men (see discussion in
previous posts), my question is in regard to the castle and Lordship
of Hastings, Sussex.
It seems the grant of that Lordship to Thomas Hoo was the reason he
was entitled Lord Hoo AND Hastings (rather than any connection with
the Hastings family).
But, since the Lordship was later granted by Edward to William
Hastings of Ashby, he must somehow have deprived the Hoo heirs of
what had been granted to Lord Hoo by Henry VI.
I don't think the titles did exist simultaneously, as Lord Hoo and
Hastings died in 1454 (his brother doesn't seem to have born the
title), and William wasn't enobled until after Edward became King.

--- In , "Stephen Lark" I,
<smlark@t...> wrote:


> Sorry, it's not as simple as that. The man in question was Thomas,
> Lord Hoo of Hastings whereas the one we know more of was William,
> Lord Hastings of Ashby de la Zouche. Totally unrelated, both titles
> can exist simultaneously. Similarly, today we have a Duke of
Somerset
> whose surname is Seymour and another peer whose surname is
Somerset.
> Confusing but totally distinct.
>
> --- In , "theblackprussian"
> <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Great, that answers the Hastings mystery. It looks like this is
> > another example of Edward IV cheating heirs of their inheritance
> > though, as he seems to have granted Hastings to his bed buddy
> William
> > Hastings when he made him a Lord.

This creates further mysteries.
Thomas Hoo died in 1454.
Did Edward IV actually take the Lordship of the Manor from Hoo's
brother or was it vacant already by his reign (which didn't begin
until 1461).
If he did, were the Hoos Lancastrians who lost it for partisan
reasons?
If the brother never held the Lordship then Edward could not have
taken it away. Perhips he held it briefly - there is similar
confusion over Roger, Baron Stafford (d. 1640), whose cousin's
granddaughter Mary (and husband) was given the title (upgraded to a
Viscountcy), even when tradesmen children of his sister Jane were
alive.

--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm aware of the distinction between the two men (see discussion in
> previous posts), my question is in regard to the castle and
Lordship
> of Hastings, Sussex.
> It seems the grant of that Lordship to Thomas Hoo was the reason he
> was entitled Lord Hoo AND Hastings (rather than any connection with
> the Hastings family).
> But, since the Lordship was later granted by Edward to William
> Hastings of Ashby, he must somehow have deprived the Hoo heirs of
> what had been granted to Lord Hoo by Henry VI.
> I don't think the titles did exist simultaneously, as Lord Hoo and
> Hastings died in 1454 (his brother doesn't seem to have born the
> title), and William wasn't enobled until after Edward became King.
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark" I,
> <smlark@t...> wrote:
>
>
> > Sorry, it's not as simple as that. The man in question was
Thomas,
> > Lord Hoo of Hastings whereas the one we know more of was William,
> > Lord Hastings of Ashby de la Zouche. Totally unrelated, both
titles
> > can exist simultaneously. Similarly, today we have a Duke of
> Somerset
> > whose surname is Seymour and another peer whose surname is
> Somerset.
> > Confusing but totally distinct.
> >
> > --- In , "theblackprussian"
> > <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Great, that answers the Hastings mystery. It looks like this is
> > > another example of Edward IV cheating heirs of their
inheritance
> > > though, as he seems to have granted Hastings to his bed buddy
> > William
> > > Hastings when he made him a Lord.
>

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@t...> wrote:
>
> This creates further mysteries.
> Thomas Hoo died in 1454.
> Did Edward IV actually take the Lordship of the Manor from Hoo's
> brother or was it vacant already by his reign (which didn't begin
> until 1461).
> If he did, were the Hoos Lancastrians who lost it for partisan
> reasons?
> If the brother never held the Lordship then Edward could not have
> taken it away. Perhips he held it briefly -



Wait...according to Fayre Rose, the heir of Thomas Hoo, first Lord
Hoo and Hastings, was his half brother, also naed Thomas Hoo. Is
this correct -- another example of the Sae Name Syndrome? If so, I'd
put money on their father being named Thomas Hoo also.

As for why the half-brother heir does not seem to have held the
title, could it be that he was in the Church and decided to remain
there?

Katy

When I say the brother never held the lordship, I mean he never bore the title Lord Hoo. Legally the grant of the castle would seem to be hereditory rather than a life grant. However it may still have been subject to an act of resumption. The brother of Lord Hoo seems to have died without children, as the two Hoo sisters are described as "co-heirs of Lord Hoo".
The eldest married into the Boleyns, and this raises the question of Hever castle, which some authorities insist was obtained by Boleyn through this marriage. Others say that the Boleyns bought the castle, but if so from whom? The last reference to it's ownership before the Boleyns mentions Lord Cobham, but not Lord Hoo.
It was here that Henry VIII courted his second wife (after bedding her sister), and this is one of those examples where its difficult to find the earlier history of the place amid all the blab about the Tudors. (Kimbolton is another example; yes, we KNOW Katherine of Aragon lived here, but what about before that?)

Stephen Lark <smlark@...> wrote:
This creates further mysteries.
Thomas Hoo died in 1454.
Did Edward IV actually take the Lordship of the Manor from Hoo's
brother or was it vacant already by his reign (which didn't begin
until 1461).
If he did, were the Hoos Lancastrians who lost it for partisan
reasons?
If the brother never held the Lordship then Edward could not have
taken it away. Perhips he held it briefly - there is similar
confusion over Roger, Baron Stafford (d. 1640), whose cousin's
granddaughter Mary (and husband) was given the title (upgraded to a
Viscountcy), even when tradesmen children of his sister Jane were
alive.

--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm aware of the distinction between the two men (see discussion in
> previous posts), my question is in regard to the castle and
Lordship
> of Hastings, Sussex.
> It seems the grant of that Lordship to Thomas Hoo was the reason he
> was entitled Lord Hoo AND Hastings (rather than any connection with
> the Hastings family).
> But, since the Lordship was later granted by Edward to William
> Hastings of Ashby, he must somehow have deprived the Hoo heirs of
> what had been granted to Lord Hoo by Henry VI.
> I don't think the titles did exist simultaneously, as Lord Hoo and
> Hastings died in 1454 (his brother doesn't seem to have born the
> title), and William wasn't enobled until after Edward became King.
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark" I,
> <smlark@t...> wrote:
>
>
> > Sorry, it's not as simple as that. The man in question was
Thomas,
> > Lord Hoo of Hastings whereas the one we know more of was William,
> > Lord Hastings of Ashby de la Zouche. Totally unrelated, both
titles
> > can exist simultaneously. Similarly, today we have a Duke of
> Somerset
> > whose surname is Seymour and another peer whose surname is
> Somerset.
> > Confusing but totally distinct.
> >
> > --- In , "theblackprussian"
> > <theblackprussian@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Great, that answers the Hastings mystery. It looks like this is
> > > another example of Edward IV cheating heirs of their
inheritance
> > > though, as he seems to have granted Hastings to his bed buddy
> > William
> > > Hastings when he made him a Lord.
>






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