Re: Katherine Haute

Not the author! Just thought this might be of interest:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743276876/qid=1137532639/sr=1-1/ref=sr
_1_1/102-0761581-6408116?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

A Rose for the Crown (Paperback)
by Anne Easter Smith

Paperback: 672 pages
Publisher: Touchstone (March 7, 2006)
Language: English
ISBN: 0743276876

From Publishers Weekly
Inspired by the historical record of Richard III's bastard children,
Smith invents a spirited, "tawny-eyed" mistress for the 15th-century
king in her sweeping debut. Kate Bywood is plucked from her peasant life
at the age of 11 to join the household of her mother's noble cousins,
the Hautes, as companion to her timid cousin, Anne. A brief, unwilling
marriage to an older, wealthy merchant leaves Kate a young widow with a
considerable fortune. A second marriage to George, an opportunistic
Haute cousin who prefers the stable boy to Kate, leaves her yearning for
love. In a chance encounter, she meets Richard of Gloucester, and the
ensuing secret romance is filled with the passion and intimacy her
marriage lacks. George is killed during an attack in the forest, and
Kate bears Richard three children.

From the Author
A plethora of books, essays and articles has been published about
Richard III through the centuries. It is unfortunate that Shakespeare's
unflattering depiction of the last Plantagenet king has become the de
facto characterization of Richard in our history books. Shakespeare
wrote for the Tudor queen, Elizabeth I, granddaughter of the very man
who "stole" Richard's crown.

We know Richard had a mistress -- perhaps more than one -- because two
of his bastard children are mentioned in records from the period. No one
has discovered her identity, which has allowed me to invent her. This is
her story as plausible as a thorough research into the period and lives
of the non-fictional characters allowed.

Richard III's two known bastards, John of Gloucester and Katherine
Plantagenet -- albeit illegitimate, were acknowledged and adopted into
the royal household. Just before the Battle of Bosworth, however, King
Richard is said to have acknowledged the existence of a third bastard,
and, although never proven, many believe this to be one Richard of
Eastwell.

I am unconvinced that Richard III was the villain history has made him
out to be, and I hope I have created a more appropriate version of him
-- neither better nor worse than other powerful men of the period.

I should also add that I'm a member of the Richard III Society and the
Historical Novel Society.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.P.H.,

Ann
axsc@...
http://mzbworks.home.att.net/ann.htm

Things I've learned from British folk ballads:
Assessing the speed of a horse by colour is unreliable. Always verify
the creature's performance using an industry standard benchmark.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tawny-eyed? Isn't taupe the new tawny?

Sharp, Ann (CGT) wrote:

> Not the author! Just thought this might be of interest:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743276876/qid=1137532639/sr=1-1/ref=sr
> _1_1/102-0761581-6408116?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
>
> A Rose for the Crown (Paperback)
> by Anne Easter Smith
>
> Paperback: 672 pages
> Publisher: Touchstone (March 7, 2006)
> Language: English
> ISBN: 0743276876
>
> >From Publishers Weekly
> Inspired by the historical record of Richard III's bastard children,
> Smith invents a spirited, "tawny-eyed" mistress for the 15th-century
> king in her sweeping debut. Kate Bywood is plucked from her peasant life
> at the age of 11 to join the household of her mother's noble cousins,
> the Hautes, as companion to her timid cousin, Anne. A brief, unwilling
> marriage to an older, wealthy merchant leaves Kate a young widow with a
> considerable fortune. A second marriage to George, an opportunistic
> Haute cousin who prefers the stable boy to Kate, leaves her yearning for
> love. In a chance encounter, she meets Richard of Gloucester, and the
> ensuing secret romance is filled with the passion and intimacy her
> marriage lacks. George is killed during an attack in the forest, and
> Kate bears Richard three children.
>
> >From the Author
> A plethora of books, essays and articles has been published about
> Richard III through the centuries. It is unfortunate that Shakespeare's
> unflattering depiction of the last Plantagenet king has become the de
> facto characterization of Richard in our history books. Shakespeare
> wrote for the Tudor queen, Elizabeth I, granddaughter of the very man
> who "stole" Richard's crown.
>
> We know Richard had a mistress -- perhaps more than one -- because two
> of his bastard children are mentioned in records from the period. No one
> has discovered her identity, which has allowed me to invent her. This is
> her story as plausible as a thorough research into the period and lives
> of the non-fictional characters allowed.
>
> Richard III's two known bastards, John of Gloucester and Katherine
> Plantagenet -- albeit illegitimate, were acknowledged and adopted into
> the royal household. Just before the Battle of Bosworth, however, King
> Richard is said to have acknowledged the existence of a third bastard,
> and, although never proven, many believe this to be one Richard of
> Eastwell.
>
> I am unconvinced that Richard III was the villain history has made him
> out to be, and I hope I have created a more appropriate version of him
> -- neither better nor worse than other powerful men of the period.
>
> I should also add that I'm a member of the Richard III Society and the
> Historical Novel Society.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> L.P.H.,
>
> Ann
> axsc@...
> http://mzbworks.home.att.net/ann.htm
>
> Things I've learned from British folk ballads:
> Assessing the speed of a horse by colour is unreliable. Always verify
> the creature's performance using an industry standard benchmark.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

you can read about richard of eastwell here.
http://www.merlinventor.com/Curiosa.htm

roslyn

"Sharp, Ann (CGT)" <axsc@...> wrote:
Not the author! Just thought this might be of interest:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743276876/qid=1137532639/sr=1-1/ref=sr
_1_1/102-0761581-6408116?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

A Rose for the Crown (Paperback)
by Anne Easter Smith

Paperback: 672 pages
Publisher: Touchstone (March 7, 2006)
Language: English
ISBN: 0743276876

From Publishers Weekly
Inspired by the historical record of Richard III's bastard children,
Smith invents a spirited, "tawny-eyed" mistress for the 15th-century
king in her sweeping debut. Kate Bywood is plucked from her peasant life
at the age of 11 to join the household of her mother's noble cousins,
the Hautes, as companion to her timid cousin, Anne. A brief, unwilling
marriage to an older, wealthy merchant leaves Kate a young widow with a
considerable fortune. A second marriage to George, an opportunistic
Haute cousin who prefers the stable boy to Kate, leaves her yearning for
love. In a chance encounter, she meets Richard of Gloucester, and the
ensuing secret romance is filled with the passion and intimacy her
marriage lacks. George is killed during an attack in the forest, and
Kate bears Richard three children.

From the Author
A plethora of books, essays and articles has been published about
Richard III through the centuries. It is unfortunate that Shakespeare's
unflattering depiction of the last Plantagenet king has become the de
facto characterization of Richard in our history books. Shakespeare
wrote for the Tudor queen, Elizabeth I, granddaughter of the very man
who "stole" Richard's crown.

We know Richard had a mistress -- perhaps more than one -- because two
of his bastard children are mentioned in records from the period. No one
has discovered her identity, which has allowed me to invent her. This is
her story as plausible as a thorough research into the period and lives
of the non-fictional characters allowed.

Richard III's two known bastards, John of Gloucester and Katherine
Plantagenet -- albeit illegitimate, were acknowledged and adopted into
the royal household. Just before the Battle of Bosworth, however, King
Richard is said to have acknowledged the existence of a third bastard,
and, although never proven, many believe this to be one Richard of
Eastwell.

I am unconvinced that Richard III was the villain history has made him
out to be, and I hope I have created a more appropriate version of him
-- neither better nor worse than other powerful men of the period.

I should also add that I'm a member of the Richard III Society and the
Historical Novel Society.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.P.H.,

Ann
axsc@...
http://mzbworks.home.att.net/ann.htm

Things I've learned from British folk ballads:
Assessing the speed of a horse by colour is unreliable. Always verify
the creature's performance using an industry standard benchmark.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------

I am going to write a Medieval romance. The first sentence will
read "Matilda was scrawny as a pullet, with stringy hair and muddy
hazel eyes. But she was a great heiress...."

Enough of the gals with high heaving bosoms, alabaster thighs, and
improbably-colored eyes, I say.

Katy





--- In , "Sharp, Ann \(CGT\)"
<axsc@p...> wrote:
>
> Not the author! Just thought this might be of interest:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743276876/qid=1137532639/sr=1-
1/ref=sr
> _1_1/102-0761581-6408116?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
>
> A Rose for the Crown (Paperback)
> by Anne Easter Smith
>
> Paperback: 672 pages
> Publisher: Touchstone (March 7, 2006)
> Language: English
> ISBN: 0743276876
>
> From Publishers Weekly
> Inspired by the historical record of Richard III's bastard children,
> Smith invents a spirited, "tawny-eyed" mistress for the 15th-century
> king in her sweeping debut. Kate Bywood is plucked from her peasant
life
> at the age of 11 to join the household of her mother's noble
cousins,
> the Hautes, as companion to her timid cousin, Anne. A brief,
unwilling
> marriage to an older, wealthy merchant leaves Kate a young widow
with a
> considerable fortune. A second marriage to George, an opportunistic
> Haute cousin who prefers the stable boy to Kate, leaves her
yearning for
> love. In a chance encounter, she meets Richard of Gloucester, and
the
> ensuing secret romance is filled with the passion and intimacy her
> marriage lacks. George is killed during an attack in the forest, and
> Kate bears Richard three children.
>
> From the Author
> A plethora of books, essays and articles has been published about
> Richard III through the centuries. It is unfortunate that
Shakespeare's
> unflattering depiction of the last Plantagenet king has become the
de
> facto characterization of Richard in our history books. Shakespeare
> wrote for the Tudor queen, Elizabeth I, granddaughter of the very
man
> who "stole" Richard's crown.
>
> We know Richard had a mistress -- perhaps more than one -- because
two
> of his bastard children are mentioned in records from the period.
No one
> has discovered her identity, which has allowed me to invent her.
This is
> her story as plausible as a thorough research into the period and
lives
> of the non-fictional characters allowed.
>
> Richard III's two known bastards, John of Gloucester and Katherine
> Plantagenet -- albeit illegitimate, were acknowledged and adopted
into
> the royal household. Just before the Battle of Bosworth, however,
King
> Richard is said to have acknowledged the existence of a third
bastard,
> and, although never proven, many believe this to be one Richard of
> Eastwell.
>
> I am unconvinced that Richard III was the villain history has made
him
> out to be, and I hope I have created a more appropriate version of
him
> -- neither better nor worse than other powerful men of the period.
>
> I should also add that I'm a member of the Richard III Society and
the
> Historical Novel Society.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> L.P.H.,
>
> Ann
> axsc@p...
> http://mzbworks.home.att.net/ann.htm
>
> Things I've learned from British folk ballads:
> Assessing the speed of a horse by colour is unreliable. Always
verify
> the creature's performance using an industry standard benchmark.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

I am going to write a Medieval romance. The first sentence will
read "Matilda was scrawny as a pullet, with stringy hair and muddy
hazel eyes. But she was a great heiress...."

Enough of the gals with high heaving bosoms, alabaster thighs, and
improbably-colored eyes, I say.

Katy
========================
Though not medieval, Jane Austen got there first with this description
of her heroine in "Northanger Abbey":

"No one who had ever seen Catherine Morland in her infancy would have
supposed her born to be an heroine. Her situation in life, the character
of her father and mother, her own person and disposition, were all
equally against her. Her father was a clergyman, without being
neglected, or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name was
Richard -- and he had never been handsome. He had a considerable
independence besides two good livings -- and he was not in the least
addicted to locking up his daughters. Her mother was a woman of useful
plain sense, with a good temper, and, what is more remarkable, with a
good constitution. She had three sons before Catherine was born; and
instead of dying in bringing the latter into the world, as anybody might
expect, she still lived on -- lived to have six children more -- to see
them growing up around her, and to enjoy excellent health herself. A
family of ten children will be always called a fine family, where there
are heads and arms and legs enough for the number; but the Morlands had
little other right to the word, for they were in general very plain, and
Catherine, for many years of her life, as plain as any. She had a thin
awkward figure, a sallow skin without colour, dark lank hair, and strong
features -- so much for her person; and not less unpropitious for
heroism seemed her mind. She was fond of all boy's plays, and greatly
preferred cricket not merely to dolls, but to the more heroic enjoyments
of infancy, nursing a dormouse, feeding a canary-bird, or watering a
rose-bush."

Maria
elena@...

I will look out for this.

Ann

"Sharp, Ann (CGT)" <axsc@...> wrote:
Not the author! Just thought this might be of interest:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743276876/qid=1137532639/sr=1-1/ref=sr
_1_1/102-0761581-6408116?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

A Rose for the Crown (Paperback)
by Anne Easter Smith

Paperback: 672 pages
Publisher: Touchstone (March 7, 2006)
Language: English
ISBN: 0743276876

From Publishers Weekly
Inspired by the historical record of Richard III's bastard children,
Smith invents a spirited, "tawny-eyed" mistress for the 15th-century
king in her sweeping debut. Kate Bywood is plucked from her peasant life
at the age of 11 to join the household of her mother's noble cousins,
the Hautes, as companion to her timid cousin, Anne. A brief, unwilling
marriage to an older, wealthy merchant leaves Kate a young widow with a
considerable fortune. A second marriage to George, an opportunistic
Haute cousin who prefers the stable boy to Kate, leaves her yearning for
love. In a chance encounter, she meets Richard of Gloucester, and the
ensuing secret romance is filled with the passion and intimacy her
marriage lacks. George is killed during an attack in the forest, and
Kate bears Richard three children.

From the Author
A plethora of books, essays and articles has been published about
Richard III through the centuries. It is unfortunate that Shakespeare's
unflattering depiction of the last Plantagenet king has become the de
facto characterization of Richard in our history books. Shakespeare
wrote for the Tudor queen, Elizabeth I, granddaughter of the very man
who "stole" Richard's crown.

We know Richard had a mistress -- perhaps more than one -- because two
of his bastard children are mentioned in records from the period. No one
has discovered her identity, which has allowed me to invent her. This is
her story as plausible as a thorough research into the period and lives
of the non-fictional characters allowed.

Richard III's two known bastards, John of Gloucester and Katherine
Plantagenet -- albeit illegitimate, were acknowledged and adopted into
the royal household. Just before the Battle of Bosworth, however, King
Richard is said to have acknowledged the existence of a third bastard,
and, although never proven, many believe this to be one Richard of
Eastwell.

I am unconvinced that Richard III was the villain history has made him
out to be, and I hope I have created a more appropriate version of him
-- neither better nor worse than other powerful men of the period.

I should also add that I'm a member of the Richard III Society and the
Historical Novel Society.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.P.H.,

Ann
axsc@...
http://mzbworks.home.att.net/ann.htm

Things I've learned from British folk ballads:
Assessing the speed of a horse by colour is unreliable. Always verify
the creature's performance using an industry standard benchmark.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

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---------------------------------

I must read Northanger Abbey. Catherine sounds my kind of girl!

Ann

Maria <ejbronte@...> wrote:

Though not medieval, Jane Austen got there first with this description
of her heroine in "Northanger Abbey":

"No one who had ever seen Catherine Morland in her infancy would have
supposed her born to be an heroine. Her situation in life, the character
of her father and mother, her own person and disposition, were all
equally against her. Her father was a clergyman, without being
neglected, or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name was
Richard -- and he had never been handsome. He had a considerable
independence besides two good livings -- and he was not in the least
addicted to locking up his daughters. Her mother was a woman of useful
plain sense, with a good temper, and, what is more remarkable, with a
good constitution. She had three sons before Catherine was born; and
instead of dying in bringing the latter into the world, as anybody might
expect, she still lived on -- lived to have six children more -- to see
them growing up around her, and to enjoy excellent health herself. A
family of ten children will be always called a fine family, where there
are heads and arms and legs enough for the number; but the Morlands had
little other right to the word, for they were in general very plain, and
Catherine, for many years of her life, as plain as any. She had a thin
awkward figure, a sallow skin without colour, dark lank hair, and strong
features -- so much for her person; and not less unpropitious for
heroism seemed her mind. She was fond of all boy's plays, and greatly
preferred cricket not merely to dolls, but to the more heroic enjoyments
of infancy, nursing a dormouse, feeding a canary-bird, or watering a
rose-bush."

Maria
elena@...






SPONSORED LINKS
United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United kingdom vacation

---------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

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---------------------------------

I am going to write a Medieval romance. The first sentence will
read "Matilda was scrawny as a pullet, with stringy hair and muddy
hazel eyes. But she was a great heiress...."

Enough of the gals with high heaving bosoms, alabaster thighs, and
improbably-colored eyes, I say.

Katy
========================

How refreshing. A friend who advises me on heraldry for my yarn tells me he helped another author with a novel in which a young man baly wounded at Flodden falls in love with the young lady who tends his wounds. 'Don't make her beautiful,' said Frederick, meaning that she should be a pleasant looking girl but not a raving beauty. The writer, an American, however declared that she could not possibly have a heroine who was ugly, or even a bit plain (homely is I think the American term) and dealt with the issue by making her beautiful but mute!

I look forward to reading Katy's book.

Ann

Ah, Maria, thank you! A wonderful example of how Austen was a genius. (I almost feel the need to insert an emphasis there.) I never understand how some folk don't "get" her.

I wish we knew more about Richard's lover(s), said he, carefully bringing the thing back on topic; Katherine Haute surely is a candidate, but I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: Maria
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:48 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Katherine Haute


I am going to write a Medieval romance. The first sentence will
read "Matilda was scrawny as a pullet, with stringy hair and muddy
hazel eyes. But she was a great heiress...."

Enough of the gals with high heaving bosoms, alabaster thighs, and
improbably-colored eyes, I say.

Katy
========================
Though not medieval, Jane Austen got there first with this description
of her heroine in "Northanger Abbey":

"No one who had ever seen Catherine Morland in her infancy would have
supposed her born to be an heroine. Her situation in life, the character
of her father and mother, her own person and disposition, were all
equally against her. Her father was a clergyman, without being
neglected, or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name was
Richard -- and he had never been handsome. He had a considerable
independence besides two good livings -- and he was not in the least
addicted to locking up his daughters. Her mother was a woman of useful
plain sense, with a good temper, and, what is more remarkable, with a
good constitution. She had three sons before Catherine was born; and
instead of dying in bringing the latter into the world, as anybody might
expect, she still lived on -- lived to have six children more -- to see
them growing up around her, and to enjoy excellent health herself. A
family of ten children will be always called a fine family, where there
are heads and arms and legs enough for the number; but the Morlands had
little other right to the word, for they were in general very plain, and
Catherine, for many years of her life, as plain as any. She had a thin
awkward figure, a sallow skin without colour, dark lank hair, and strong
features -- so much for her person; and not less unpropitious for
heroism seemed her mind. She was fond of all boy's plays, and greatly
preferred cricket not merely to dolls, but to the more heroic enjoyments
of infancy, nursing a dormouse, feeding a canary-bird, or watering a
rose-bush."

Maria
elena@...






SPONSORED LINKS United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower delivery Call united kingdom
United kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United kingdom vacation


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I must read Northanger Abbey. Catherine sounds my kind of girl!
>  
>  Ann
====================================

Oh, you must! Austen is a wicked lass: she made me laugh out loud on the subway.

Maria
elena@...

Have you seen the portrait recently identified as that of Lady Jane
Grey?
Wasn't she supposed to have been a grat beauty, and subject of many
romantic novels and a film?
In which case her picture hardly does her justice.

http://www.channel4.com/news

--- In , "Brian Wainwright"
<Brian@g...> wrote:
>
> Ah, Maria, thank you! A wonderful example of how Austen was a
genius. (I almost feel the need to insert an emphasis there.) I never
understand how some folk don't "get" her.
>
> I wish we knew more about Richard's lover(s), said he, carefully
bringing the thing back on topic; Katherine Haute surely is a
candidate, but I doubt we'll ever know for sure.
>
> Brian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maria
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:48 AM
> Subject: RE: Re: Katherine Haute
>
>
> I am going to write a Medieval romance. The first sentence will
> read "Matilda was scrawny as a pullet, with stringy hair and
muddy
> hazel eyes. But she was a great heiress...."
>
> Enough of the gals with high heaving bosoms, alabaster thighs,
and
> improbably-colored eyes, I say.
>
> Katy
> ========================
> Though not medieval, Jane Austen got there first with this
description
> of her heroine in "Northanger Abbey":
>
> "No one who had ever seen Catherine Morland in her infancy would
have
> supposed her born to be an heroine. Her situation in life, the
character
> of her father and mother, her own person and disposition, were all
> equally against her. Her father was a clergyman, without being
> neglected, or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name
was
> Richard -- and he had never been handsome. He had a considerable
> independence besides two good livings -- and he was not in the
least
> addicted to locking up his daughters. Her mother was a woman of
useful
> plain sense, with a good temper, and, what is more remarkable,
with a
> good constitution. She had three sons before Catherine was born;
and
> instead of dying in bringing the latter into the world, as
anybody might
> expect, she still lived on -- lived to have six children more --
to see
> them growing up around her, and to enjoy excellent health
herself. A
> family of ten children will be always called a fine family, where
there
> are heads and arms and legs enough for the number; but the
Morlands had
> little other right to the word, for they were in general very
plain, and
> Catherine, for many years of her life, as plain as any. She had a
thin
> awkward figure, a sallow skin without colour, dark lank hair, and
strong
> features -- so much for her person; and not less unpropitious for
> heroism seemed her mind. She was fond of all boy's plays, and
greatly
> preferred cricket not merely to dolls, but to the more heroic
enjoyments
> of infancy, nursing a dormouse, feeding a canary-bird, or
watering a
> rose-bush."
>
> Maria
> elena@p...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS United kingdom calling card United kingdom
flower delivery Call united kingdom
> United kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United
kingdom vacation
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
>
>

>From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...>

>Have you seen the portrait recently identified as that of Lady Jane Grey?
>Wasn't she supposed to have been a grat beauty, and subject of many romantic novels and a film?
>In which case her picture hardly does her justice.
>
==============================

I never read (that I can recall) that Jane Grey was a beauty; I did read that she was very well-read, that her home life was unpleasant, and that she was a rather dour person. The woman in the portrait looks substantially older to me than 17, and I'd hold off on taking it to be Jane. There was a painting that was supposed to have been of Lady Jane, which certainly looked more like it, but apparently it's been re-identified as Catherine Parr. Okay.

The concept of human beauty definitely belongs to its own time and place. For example, here is a portrait of Philip the Handsome, son of the Emperor Maximilian and Marie of Burgundy; brother of Margaret of Austria; husband of Juana of Castile (daughter of the Catholic Kings):

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/portrai2.html

It was painted by Juan de Flandes, a contemporary who composed portraits of several members of the Iberian and Flemish royal houses. To my eye, this is not a handsome man, but Philip was acknowedged to be the most beautiful prince of his generation. Juana, to her devastation, certainly thought so. Townsend Miller, in "Castles and the Crown", his bio of the Catholic Kings, Juana and Philip, reports from contemporaries that Philip's only defects were bad teeth and a bum knee. Philip was healthier than some of his royal male contemporaries (e.g., Arthur in England; Juan in Spain); and pretty much anybody (except perhaps a Medici) looked handsome next to the unfortunate features of the Valois family, so perhaps the accolades are purely comparative. Pretty though he may have been for the time and place, his mind wasn't up to the type of games he needed to play.

Maria
elena@...

It seems to me that references to royalty as being good-looking was
probably a convention. It'd likely be worth your head to say that a
member of royalty was butt-ugly. And I'm sure that the trappings of
majesty could go far toward mitigating less than perfect physical
attributes.

Then, of course, there were the portraits painted for the marriage
market. These were the visual arts version of the diplomatic missives.
Good old Henry VIII seems to have been done in by the portrait of Anne
of Cleves. He came up with a nice dodge, though. If she's ugly, dump
her, but say that you'll love her like a sister. Of course, this ploy is
still used today. At least Henry didn't tell Ann, "It's not you, it's
me". OK, maybe he did. Who knows?

I'm sure he meant well.

You're right about the Valois. Goes to show that God does have a sense
of humour. Why else would he have kept that nose going through so many
generations?

Maria wrote:

> >From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...>
>
> >Have you seen the portrait recently identified as that of Lady Jane Grey?
> >Wasn't she supposed to have been a grat beauty, and subject of many
> romantic novels and a film?
> >In which case her picture hardly does her justice.
> >
> ==============================
>
> I never read (that I can recall) that Jane Grey was a beauty; I did
> read that she was very well-read, that her home life was unpleasant,
> and that she was a rather dour person. The woman in the portrait
> looks substantially older to me than 17, and I'd hold off on taking it
> to be Jane. There was a painting that was supposed to have been of
> Lady Jane, which certainly looked more like it, but apparently it's
> been re-identified as Catherine Parr. Okay.
>
> The concept of human beauty definitely belongs to its own time and
> place. For example, here is a portrait of Philip the Handsome, son of
> the Emperor Maximilian and Marie of Burgundy; brother of Margaret of
> Austria; husband of Juana of Castile (daughter of the Catholic Kings):
>
> http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/portrai2.html
>
> It was painted by Juan de Flandes, a contemporary who composed
> portraits of several members of the Iberian and Flemish royal houses.
> To my eye, this is not a handsome man, but Philip was acknowedged to
> be the most beautiful prince of his generation. Juana, to her
> devastation, certainly thought so. Townsend Miller, in "Castles and
> the Crown", his bio of the Catholic Kings, Juana and Philip, reports
> from contemporaries that Philip's only defects were bad teeth and a
> bum knee. Philip was healthier than some of his royal male
> contemporaries (e.g., Arthur in England; Juan in Spain); and pretty
> much anybody (except perhaps a Medici) looked handsome next to the
> unfortunate features of the Valois family, so perhaps the accolades
> are purely comparative. Pretty though he may have been for the time
> and place, his mind wasn't up to the type of games he needed to play.
>
> Maria
> elena@...
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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--- In , Maria <ejbronte@o...>
wrote:
>
> >I must read Northanger Abbey. Catherine sounds my kind of girl!
> >  
> >  Ann
> ====================================
>
> Oh, you must! Austen is a wicked lass: she made me laugh out
loud on the subway.
>
> Maria
> elena@p...

Actually, Maria's description of the scrawny, stringy-haired heiress
sounds suspiciously like Margaret Beaufort! But she was a great
heiress....

Janet T.
>

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@b...> wrote:
>
> I must read Northanger Abbey. Catherine sounds my kind of girl!
>
> Ann

Not only did Jane Austen write novels she also wrote on historical matters. This is what
she has to say about Richard:

"The character of this Prince has been in general very severely treated by Historians, but as
he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a very respectable Man. It has indeed
been confidently asserted that he killed his two Nephews and his Wife, but it has also been
declared that he did not kill his two Nephews, which I am inclined to believe is true; and if
this is the case, it may be affirmed that he did not kill his Wife, for iif Perkin Warbeck was
really the Duke of York, why might not Lambert Simnel be the Widow of Richard. Whether
innocent or guilty he did not reign long in peace, for Henry Tudor E of Richmond, as great
a villain as ever lived, made a great fuss about getting the Crown and having killed the
King at the batter of Bosworth he succeeded to it."

On Edward IV:

"This Monarch was famous only for his Beauty and his Courage, of which the Picture we
have here given of him, and his undaunted Behaviour in marrying one Woman while he was
engaged to another are sufficient proofs. His Wife was Elizabeth Woodville, a Widow, who
poor Woman! was afterwards confined in a Covent by that Monster of Iniquity and Avarice
Henry the 7th. One of Edwards Mistresses was Jane Shore, who had a play written about
her, but it is a tragedy and therefore not worth reading. Having performed all these noble
actions, his Majesty died, and was succeeded by his son".

So there you have it!
Eileen
>
> Maria <ejbronte@o...> wrote:

Jane Austen also though herself something of a his
>
> Though not medieval, Jane Austen got there first with this description
> of her heroine in "Northanger Abbey":
>
> "No one who had ever seen Catherine Morland in her infancy would have
> supposed her born to be an heroine. Her situation in life, the character
> of her father and mother, her own person and disposition, were all
> equally against her. Her father was a clergyman, without being
> neglected, or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name was
> Richard -- and he had never been handsome. He had a considerable
> independence besides two good livings -- and he was not in the least
> addicted to locking up his daughters. Her mother was a woman of useful
> plain sense, with a good temper, and, what is more remarkable, with a
> good constitution. She had three sons before Catherine was born; and
> instead of dying in bringing the latter into the world, as anybody might
> expect, she still lived on -- lived to have six children more -- to see
> them growing up around her, and to enjoy excellent health herself. A
> family of ten children will be always called a fine family, where there
> are heads and arms and legs enough for the number; but the Morlands had
> little other right to the word, for they were in general very plain, and
> Catherine, for many years of her life, as plain as any. She had a thin
> awkward figure, a sallow skin without colour, dark lank hair, and strong
> features -- so much for her person; and not less unpropitious for
> heroism seemed her mind. She was fond of all boy's plays, and greatly
> preferred cricket not merely to dolls, but to the more heroic enjoyments
> of infancy, nursing a dormouse, feeding a canary-bird, or watering a
> rose-bush."
>
> Maria
> elena@p...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In , William Barber
<bbarber@e...> wrote:
>
> It seems to me that references to royalty as being good-looking was
> probably a convention. It'd likely be worth your head to say that a
> member of royalty was butt-ugly. And I'm sure that the trappings of
> majesty could go far toward mitigating less than perfect physical
> attributes.
>
> Then, of course, there were the portraits painted for the marriage
> market. These were the visual arts version of the diplomatic
missives.
> Good old Henry VIII seems to have been done in by the portrait of
Anne
> of Cleves. He came up with a nice dodge, though. If she's ugly,
dump
> her, but say that you'll love her like a sister. Of course, this
ploy is
> still used today. At least Henry didn't tell Ann, "It's not you,
it's
> me". OK, maybe he did. Who knows?
>
> I'm sure he meant well.
>
> You're right about the Valois. Goes to show that God does have a
sense
> of humour. Why else would he have kept that nose going through so
many
> generations?
>
> Maria wrote:
>
> > >From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@y...>
> >
> > >Have you seen the portrait recently identified as that of Lady
Jane Grey?
> > >Wasn't she supposed to have been a grat beauty, and subject of
many
> > romantic novels and a film?
> > >In which case her picture hardly does her justice.
> > >
> > ==============================
> >
> > I never read (that I can recall) that Jane Grey was a beauty; I
did
> > read that she was very well-read, that her home life was
unpleasant,
> > and that she was a rather dour person. The woman in the portrait
> > looks substantially older to me than 17, and I'd hold off on
taking it
> > to be Jane. There was a painting that was supposed to have been
of
> > Lady Jane, which certainly looked more like it, but apparently
it's
> > been re-identified as Catherine Parr. Okay.

The portrait in question is supposed to have been sold in 1895 to
Green and Hatfield, antique dealers of Northgate Street, Ipswich. I
have posted a small version as a file.
> >
> > The concept of human beauty definitely belongs to its own time
and
> > place. For example, here is a portrait of Philip the Handsome,
son of
> > the Emperor Maximilian and Marie of Burgundy; brother of Margaret
of
> > Austria; husband of Juana of Castile (daughter of the Catholic
Kings):
> >
> > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/portrai2.html
> >
> > It was painted by Juan de Flandes, a contemporary who composed
> > portraits of several members of the Iberian and Flemish royal
houses.
> > To my eye, this is not a handsome man, but Philip was acknowedged
to
> > be the most beautiful prince of his generation. Juana, to her
> > devastation, certainly thought so. Townsend Miller, in "Castles
and
> > the Crown", his bio of the Catholic Kings, Juana and Philip,
reports
> > from contemporaries that Philip's only defects were bad teeth and
a
> > bum knee. Philip was healthier than some of his royal male
> > contemporaries (e.g., Arthur in England; Juan in Spain); and
pretty
> > much anybody (except perhaps a Medici) looked handsome next to
the
> > unfortunate features of the Valois family, so perhaps the
accolades
> > are purely comparative. Pretty though he may have been for the
time
> > and place, his mind wasn't up to the type of games he needed to
play.
> >
> > Maria
> > elena@p...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > United kingdom calling card
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=United+kingdom+calling+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=U
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> >
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> >
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