Francis, Viscount Lovell
Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-10 15:38:14
Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a little
further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had two
sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once shortly
after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may have
been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow still
being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had two
sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once shortly
after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may have
been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow still
being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
Re: Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-10 16:51:30
I've also been trying to research this family, without much luck. In
particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of the
brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition left
him considerably less wealthy than he should have been. Nevertheless he
must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom; doubtless
Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@...> wrote:
>
> Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a little
> further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had two
> sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once shortly
> after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may have
> been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow still
> being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
>
particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of the
brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition left
him considerably less wealthy than he should have been. Nevertheless he
must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom; doubtless
Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@...> wrote:
>
> Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a little
> further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had two
> sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once shortly
> after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may have
> been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow still
> being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
>
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-10 18:01:35
I'm a bit puzzled by your logic here - 'must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an earldom' - please explain.
Incidentally Francis Lovell was only made a viscount right at the end of Edward IV's reign - Jan-March 1483.
Ann
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
Nevertheless he
must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom; doubtless
Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
---------------------------------
Incidentally Francis Lovell was only made a viscount right at the end of Edward IV's reign - Jan-March 1483.
Ann
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
Nevertheless he
must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom; doubtless
Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
---------------------------------
[Richard III Society Forum] Re: Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-10 18:40:14
Generally speaking a noble was ranked according to his landed
income. When kings made men Earls, they had to have a certain income
to "support the dignity". Often a new creation was given a cash
pension from the crown in lieu of estates if no lands could be found
to give him.
By the same token if a Lord accumulated sufficient income by
inheritance he could expect to be raised a rank accordingly. The
Lovels accumulated the estates of 5 baronies in their hands, which is
probably why Edward promoted Francis to viscount in this way, despite
his not inheriting all the lovel lands.
At the lower end of the scale, men could be "constrained" to
knighthood, that is effectively forced to adopt the arms and
responsibilities of a knight IF they had an income over a certain
level.
This system was also used as an excuse to deprive George Neville of
his titles on the grounds that he possessed insufficient income to
support the dignity of Duke of Bedford (or indeed of a mere baron).
--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a bit puzzled by your logic here - 'must have had sufficient
estates to qualify for an earldom' - please explain.
>
> Incidentally Francis Lovell was only made a viscount right at the
end of Edward IV's reign - Jan-March 1483.
>
> Ann
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> Nevertheless he
> must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom;
doubtless
> Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
income. When kings made men Earls, they had to have a certain income
to "support the dignity". Often a new creation was given a cash
pension from the crown in lieu of estates if no lands could be found
to give him.
By the same token if a Lord accumulated sufficient income by
inheritance he could expect to be raised a rank accordingly. The
Lovels accumulated the estates of 5 baronies in their hands, which is
probably why Edward promoted Francis to viscount in this way, despite
his not inheriting all the lovel lands.
At the lower end of the scale, men could be "constrained" to
knighthood, that is effectively forced to adopt the arms and
responsibilities of a knight IF they had an income over a certain
level.
This system was also used as an excuse to deprive George Neville of
his titles on the grounds that he possessed insufficient income to
support the dignity of Duke of Bedford (or indeed of a mere baron).
--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a bit puzzled by your logic here - 'must have had sufficient
estates to qualify for an earldom' - please explain.
>
> Incidentally Francis Lovell was only made a viscount right at the
end of Edward IV's reign - Jan-March 1483.
>
> Ann
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> Nevertheless he
> must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom;
doubtless
> Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-10 21:45:13
Name Suffix: Baroness Grey
Alice (b. 25 Feb 1403/4; m. 2nd 1463 1st and last Baron Sudeley of the 1441 creation, d. 10 Feb 1473/4), daughter of 5th Lord (Baron) Deincourt and sister and ultimate heir of 6th Lord (Baron) Deincourt,thus, according to later doctrine, Baroness Deincourt in her own right, also according to the same doctrine Baroness Grey (of Rotherfield) through her mother. [Burke's Peerage]
-------------------------------
7. ALICE DEINCOURT, born 25 February 1403/4. At the death of her sister, 16 September 1454, she became sole heir to the Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield). She petitioned the King that she might enter and hold all the lands whereof her sister, Margaret, wife of Ralph Cromwell kt., had died seized, and all the lands which, after the death of Ralph, ought to descend to her, as her sister's heir, without any inquisitions being taken after the death of Margaret or that of Ralph, and without suing out her livery:
This was granted by the King, with the assent of the Lords spiritual and temporal, 3 March 1455/6. On 28 April 1458 she had pardon for all fines, reliefs, &c., incurred on entering her inheritance.
She was governess to Edward, Prince of Wales, who on 23 March 1459/60 was removed from her keeping, as being of an age [nearly 6 1/2 years] to be committed to the care of men, and because she was oppressed with grave infirmities of body and sight.
She married, 1stly, before 3 November 1423 Sir William LOVELL, sometimes called LORD LOVELL, Of Titchmarsh, Northants, and Minster Lovell, Oxon.
He died 13 June 1455. Will, directing his burial to be in the Church of the Grey Friars, Oxford. Her dower was ordered to be assigned 21 October 1455.
She married,2ndly (royal lic. 8 January 1462/3, for a fine of Ð100), as 2nd wife, Sir Ralph BOTELER, sometimes called LORD SUDELEY, 1st Baron Sudeley, of Sudeley, co. Gloucester.
He died s.p., 2 May 1473. Her dower was ordered to be assigned, 12 July 1473.
She died 10 February 1473/4, aged nearly 70.
Her heir was her grandson, Francis Lovell, Lord Lovell, who was aged 18 years and 5 months in June 1474.
Any hereditary Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield), that may besupposed to have been created by writs of 1299 and 1338 respectively, were thus united to the Barony of Lovell. [Complete Peerage IV:128-30
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
I've also been trying to research this family, without much luck. In
particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of the
brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition left
him considerably less wealthy than he should have been. Nevertheless he
must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom; doubtless
Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@...> wrote:
>
> Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a little
> further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had two
> sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once shortly
> after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may have
> been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow still
> being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
>
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Alice (b. 25 Feb 1403/4; m. 2nd 1463 1st and last Baron Sudeley of the 1441 creation, d. 10 Feb 1473/4), daughter of 5th Lord (Baron) Deincourt and sister and ultimate heir of 6th Lord (Baron) Deincourt,thus, according to later doctrine, Baroness Deincourt in her own right, also according to the same doctrine Baroness Grey (of Rotherfield) through her mother. [Burke's Peerage]
-------------------------------
7. ALICE DEINCOURT, born 25 February 1403/4. At the death of her sister, 16 September 1454, she became sole heir to the Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield). She petitioned the King that she might enter and hold all the lands whereof her sister, Margaret, wife of Ralph Cromwell kt., had died seized, and all the lands which, after the death of Ralph, ought to descend to her, as her sister's heir, without any inquisitions being taken after the death of Margaret or that of Ralph, and without suing out her livery:
This was granted by the King, with the assent of the Lords spiritual and temporal, 3 March 1455/6. On 28 April 1458 she had pardon for all fines, reliefs, &c., incurred on entering her inheritance.
She was governess to Edward, Prince of Wales, who on 23 March 1459/60 was removed from her keeping, as being of an age [nearly 6 1/2 years] to be committed to the care of men, and because she was oppressed with grave infirmities of body and sight.
She married, 1stly, before 3 November 1423 Sir William LOVELL, sometimes called LORD LOVELL, Of Titchmarsh, Northants, and Minster Lovell, Oxon.
He died 13 June 1455. Will, directing his burial to be in the Church of the Grey Friars, Oxford. Her dower was ordered to be assigned 21 October 1455.
She married,2ndly (royal lic. 8 January 1462/3, for a fine of Ð100), as 2nd wife, Sir Ralph BOTELER, sometimes called LORD SUDELEY, 1st Baron Sudeley, of Sudeley, co. Gloucester.
He died s.p., 2 May 1473. Her dower was ordered to be assigned, 12 July 1473.
She died 10 February 1473/4, aged nearly 70.
Her heir was her grandson, Francis Lovell, Lord Lovell, who was aged 18 years and 5 months in June 1474.
Any hereditary Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield), that may besupposed to have been created by writs of 1299 and 1338 respectively, were thus united to the Barony of Lovell. [Complete Peerage IV:128-30
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
I've also been trying to research this family, without much luck. In
particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of the
brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition left
him considerably less wealthy than he should have been. Nevertheless he
must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom; doubtless
Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@...> wrote:
>
> Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a little
> further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had two
> sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once shortly
> after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may have
> been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow still
> being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
>
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---------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Richard III Society Forum] Re: Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-13 17:47:41
Thanks for this information, I wonder if the CP details the Lovell
barony itself and the partitions I mentioned amongst the 4 sons of
Francis's grandfather? Was it an equal 4-way split, or did the three
younger sons just get a couple of manors to keep themselves by?
What happened to Wardour castle, built by Lord Lovel around 1395 and
which Hicks says was owned by the Earl of Wiltshire before his
attainder?
--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> Name Suffix: Baroness Grey
> Alice (b. 25 Feb 1403/4; m. 2nd 1463 1st and last Baron Sudeley of
the 1441 creation, d. 10 Feb 1473/4), daughter of 5th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt and sister and ultimate heir of 6th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt,thus, according to later doctrine, Baroness Deincourt in
her own right, also according to the same doctrine Baroness Grey (of
Rotherfield) through her mother. [Burke's Peerage]
>
> -------------------------------
>
> 7. ALICE DEINCOURT, born 25 February 1403/4. At the death of her
sister, 16 September 1454, she became sole heir to the Baronies of
Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield). She petitioned the King that she
might enter and hold all the lands whereof her sister, Margaret, wife
of Ralph Cromwell kt., had died seized, and all the lands which,
after the death of Ralph, ought to descend to her, as her sister's
heir, without any inquisitions being taken after the death of
Margaret or that of Ralph, and without suing out her livery:
>
> This was granted by the King, with the assent of the Lords
spiritual and temporal, 3 March 1455/6. On 28 April 1458 she had
pardon for all fines, reliefs, &c., incurred on entering her
inheritance.
>
> She was governess to Edward, Prince of Wales, who on 23 March
1459/60 was removed from her keeping, as being of an age [nearly 6
1/2 years] to be committed to the care of men, and because she was
oppressed with grave infirmities of body and sight.
>
> She married, 1stly, before 3 November 1423 Sir William LOVELL,
sometimes called LORD LOVELL, Of Titchmarsh, Northants, and Minster
Lovell, Oxon.
>
> He died 13 June 1455. Will, directing his burial to be in the
Church of the Grey Friars, Oxford. Her dower was ordered to be
assigned 21 October 1455.
>
> She married,2ndly (royal lic. 8 January 1462/3, for a fine of
Ð100), as 2nd wife, Sir Ralph BOTELER, sometimes called LORD SUDELEY,
1st Baron Sudeley, of Sudeley, co. Gloucester.
>
> He died s.p., 2 May 1473. Her dower was ordered to be assigned,
12 July 1473.
>
> She died 10 February 1473/4, aged nearly 70.
>
> Her heir was her grandson, Francis Lovell, Lord Lovell, who was
aged 18 years and 5 months in June 1474.
>
> Any hereditary Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield),
that may besupposed to have been created by writs of 1299 and 1338
respectively, were thus united to the Barony of Lovell. [Complete
Peerage IV:128-30
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> I've also been trying to research this family, without much
luck. In
> particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
> between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of
the
> brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition
left
> him considerably less wealthy than he should have been.
Nevertheless he
> must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom;
doubtless
> Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <smlark@> wrote:
> >
> > Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a
little
> > further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had
two
> > sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once
shortly
> > after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> > What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may
have
> > been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow
still
> > being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower
delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom florist United
kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
barony itself and the partitions I mentioned amongst the 4 sons of
Francis's grandfather? Was it an equal 4-way split, or did the three
younger sons just get a couple of manors to keep themselves by?
What happened to Wardour castle, built by Lord Lovel around 1395 and
which Hicks says was owned by the Earl of Wiltshire before his
attainder?
--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> Name Suffix: Baroness Grey
> Alice (b. 25 Feb 1403/4; m. 2nd 1463 1st and last Baron Sudeley of
the 1441 creation, d. 10 Feb 1473/4), daughter of 5th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt and sister and ultimate heir of 6th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt,thus, according to later doctrine, Baroness Deincourt in
her own right, also according to the same doctrine Baroness Grey (of
Rotherfield) through her mother. [Burke's Peerage]
>
> -------------------------------
>
> 7. ALICE DEINCOURT, born 25 February 1403/4. At the death of her
sister, 16 September 1454, she became sole heir to the Baronies of
Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield). She petitioned the King that she
might enter and hold all the lands whereof her sister, Margaret, wife
of Ralph Cromwell kt., had died seized, and all the lands which,
after the death of Ralph, ought to descend to her, as her sister's
heir, without any inquisitions being taken after the death of
Margaret or that of Ralph, and without suing out her livery:
>
> This was granted by the King, with the assent of the Lords
spiritual and temporal, 3 March 1455/6. On 28 April 1458 she had
pardon for all fines, reliefs, &c., incurred on entering her
inheritance.
>
> She was governess to Edward, Prince of Wales, who on 23 March
1459/60 was removed from her keeping, as being of an age [nearly 6
1/2 years] to be committed to the care of men, and because she was
oppressed with grave infirmities of body and sight.
>
> She married, 1stly, before 3 November 1423 Sir William LOVELL,
sometimes called LORD LOVELL, Of Titchmarsh, Northants, and Minster
Lovell, Oxon.
>
> He died 13 June 1455. Will, directing his burial to be in the
Church of the Grey Friars, Oxford. Her dower was ordered to be
assigned 21 October 1455.
>
> She married,2ndly (royal lic. 8 January 1462/3, for a fine of
Ð100), as 2nd wife, Sir Ralph BOTELER, sometimes called LORD SUDELEY,
1st Baron Sudeley, of Sudeley, co. Gloucester.
>
> He died s.p., 2 May 1473. Her dower was ordered to be assigned,
12 July 1473.
>
> She died 10 February 1473/4, aged nearly 70.
>
> Her heir was her grandson, Francis Lovell, Lord Lovell, who was
aged 18 years and 5 months in June 1474.
>
> Any hereditary Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield),
that may besupposed to have been created by writs of 1299 and 1338
respectively, were thus united to the Barony of Lovell. [Complete
Peerage IV:128-30
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> I've also been trying to research this family, without much
luck. In
> particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
> between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of
the
> brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition
left
> him considerably less wealthy than he should have been.
Nevertheless he
> must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom;
doubtless
> Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <smlark@> wrote:
> >
> > Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a
little
> > further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had
two
> > sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once
shortly
> > after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> > What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may
have
> > been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow
still
> > being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower
delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom florist United
kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Francis, Viscount Lovell
2006-02-13 18:36:13
i can't tell you what info cp may have in addition to the transcription below.. i don't own a copy, nor do i have easy access to one.
i gleaned the info via a rootsweb.com search. it was included in the notes/source for alice deincourt.
i found her of interest because of her de grey ancestry and marriage to baron sudeley. aka ralph boteler/butler father in law to eleanor talbot.
i really can not express it strongly enough.
rootsweb.com is an awesome resource for medieval research, provided you use caution with the information you find there.
ALWAYS look for the source of the info, a verifiable source such as cp is highly respected by medieval genealogists.
it won't take you long to begin to recognise the reputable gedcoms. and from there on in..the fishing is fine.
roslyn
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
Thanks for this information, I wonder if the CP details the Lovell
barony itself and the partitions I mentioned amongst the 4 sons of
Francis's grandfather? Was it an equal 4-way split, or did the three
younger sons just get a couple of manors to keep themselves by?
What happened to Wardour castle, built by Lord Lovel around 1395 and
which Hicks says was owned by the Earl of Wiltshire before his
attainder?
--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> Name Suffix: Baroness Grey
> Alice (b. 25 Feb 1403/4; m. 2nd 1463 1st and last Baron Sudeley of
the 1441 creation, d. 10 Feb 1473/4), daughter of 5th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt and sister and ultimate heir of 6th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt,thus, according to later doctrine, Baroness Deincourt in
her own right, also according to the same doctrine Baroness Grey (of
Rotherfield) through her mother. [Burke's Peerage]
>
> -------------------------------
>
> 7. ALICE DEINCOURT, born 25 February 1403/4. At the death of her
sister, 16 September 1454, she became sole heir to the Baronies of
Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield). She petitioned the King that she
might enter and hold all the lands whereof her sister, Margaret, wife
of Ralph Cromwell kt., had died seized, and all the lands which,
after the death of Ralph, ought to descend to her, as her sister's
heir, without any inquisitions being taken after the death of
Margaret or that of Ralph, and without suing out her livery:
>
> This was granted by the King, with the assent of the Lords
spiritual and temporal, 3 March 1455/6. On 28 April 1458 she had
pardon for all fines, reliefs, &c., incurred on entering her
inheritance.
>
> She was governess to Edward, Prince of Wales, who on 23 March
1459/60 was removed from her keeping, as being of an age [nearly 6
1/2 years] to be committed to the care of men, and because she was
oppressed with grave infirmities of body and sight.
>
> She married, 1stly, before 3 November 1423 Sir William LOVELL,
sometimes called LORD LOVELL, Of Titchmarsh, Northants, and Minster
Lovell, Oxon.
>
> He died 13 June 1455. Will, directing his burial to be in the
Church of the Grey Friars, Oxford. Her dower was ordered to be
assigned 21 October 1455.
>
> She married,2ndly (royal lic. 8 January 1462/3, for a fine of
Ð100), as 2nd wife, Sir Ralph BOTELER, sometimes called LORD SUDELEY,
1st Baron Sudeley, of Sudeley, co. Gloucester.
>
> He died s.p., 2 May 1473. Her dower was ordered to be assigned,
12 July 1473.
>
> She died 10 February 1473/4, aged nearly 70.
>
> Her heir was her grandson, Francis Lovell, Lord Lovell, who was
aged 18 years and 5 months in June 1474.
>
> Any hereditary Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield),
that may besupposed to have been created by writs of 1299 and 1338
respectively, were thus united to the Barony of Lovell. [Complete
Peerage IV:128-30
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> I've also been trying to research this family, without much
luck. In
> particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
> between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of
the
> brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition
left
> him considerably less wealthy than he should have been.
Nevertheless he
> must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom;
doubtless
> Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <smlark@> wrote:
> >
> > Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a
little
> > further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had
two
> > sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once
shortly
> > after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> > What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may
have
> > been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow
still
> > being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
> >
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i gleaned the info via a rootsweb.com search. it was included in the notes/source for alice deincourt.
i found her of interest because of her de grey ancestry and marriage to baron sudeley. aka ralph boteler/butler father in law to eleanor talbot.
i really can not express it strongly enough.
rootsweb.com is an awesome resource for medieval research, provided you use caution with the information you find there.
ALWAYS look for the source of the info, a verifiable source such as cp is highly respected by medieval genealogists.
it won't take you long to begin to recognise the reputable gedcoms. and from there on in..the fishing is fine.
roslyn
theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
Thanks for this information, I wonder if the CP details the Lovell
barony itself and the partitions I mentioned amongst the 4 sons of
Francis's grandfather? Was it an equal 4-way split, or did the three
younger sons just get a couple of manors to keep themselves by?
What happened to Wardour castle, built by Lord Lovel around 1395 and
which Hicks says was owned by the Earl of Wiltshire before his
attainder?
--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> Name Suffix: Baroness Grey
> Alice (b. 25 Feb 1403/4; m. 2nd 1463 1st and last Baron Sudeley of
the 1441 creation, d. 10 Feb 1473/4), daughter of 5th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt and sister and ultimate heir of 6th Lord (Baron)
Deincourt,thus, according to later doctrine, Baroness Deincourt in
her own right, also according to the same doctrine Baroness Grey (of
Rotherfield) through her mother. [Burke's Peerage]
>
> -------------------------------
>
> 7. ALICE DEINCOURT, born 25 February 1403/4. At the death of her
sister, 16 September 1454, she became sole heir to the Baronies of
Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield). She petitioned the King that she
might enter and hold all the lands whereof her sister, Margaret, wife
of Ralph Cromwell kt., had died seized, and all the lands which,
after the death of Ralph, ought to descend to her, as her sister's
heir, without any inquisitions being taken after the death of
Margaret or that of Ralph, and without suing out her livery:
>
> This was granted by the King, with the assent of the Lords
spiritual and temporal, 3 March 1455/6. On 28 April 1458 she had
pardon for all fines, reliefs, &c., incurred on entering her
inheritance.
>
> She was governess to Edward, Prince of Wales, who on 23 March
1459/60 was removed from her keeping, as being of an age [nearly 6
1/2 years] to be committed to the care of men, and because she was
oppressed with grave infirmities of body and sight.
>
> She married, 1stly, before 3 November 1423 Sir William LOVELL,
sometimes called LORD LOVELL, Of Titchmarsh, Northants, and Minster
Lovell, Oxon.
>
> He died 13 June 1455. Will, directing his burial to be in the
Church of the Grey Friars, Oxford. Her dower was ordered to be
assigned 21 October 1455.
>
> She married,2ndly (royal lic. 8 January 1462/3, for a fine of
Ð100), as 2nd wife, Sir Ralph BOTELER, sometimes called LORD SUDELEY,
1st Baron Sudeley, of Sudeley, co. Gloucester.
>
> He died s.p., 2 May 1473. Her dower was ordered to be assigned,
12 July 1473.
>
> She died 10 February 1473/4, aged nearly 70.
>
> Her heir was her grandson, Francis Lovell, Lord Lovell, who was
aged 18 years and 5 months in June 1474.
>
> Any hereditary Baronies of Deincourt and Grey (of Rotherfield),
that may besupposed to have been created by writs of 1299 and 1338
respectively, were thus united to the Barony of Lovell. [Complete
Peerage IV:128-30
>
> theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> I've also been trying to research this family, without much
luck. In
> particular I need information on the partition of the Lovel estates
> between Francis' father and three uncles. As son of the eldest of
the
> brothers, Francis should have inherited the lot but the partition
left
> him considerably less wealthy than he should have been.
Nevertheless he
> must have had sufficient estates to qualify for an Earldom;
doubtless
> Richard would have awarded him one eventually - Oxford, perhaps?
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <smlark@> wrote:
> >
> > Today, I visited my local library to investigate his family a
little
> > further. I could only find his ancestors and a note that he had
two
> > sisters. However, it seems that he was attainted TWICE, once
shortly
> > after Bosworth and again ten years' later.
> > What was the point? Without the first attainder, the second may
have
> > been necessary as he could have survived Stoke but, his widow
still
> > being alive, he could not have fathered any legitimate children.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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