2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2006-02-17 22:33:17
Does anyone know the answers to the following questions about Elizabeth
of York?
1) Is it true that the Queen of Hearts playing card is based upon the
portrait of Elizabeth wearing the gable style head dress and holding a
white rose?
2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that Elizabeth
would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the Queen had
within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect that
whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not, who was
it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it come
from?
Any help will be gratefully received.
Joanne
of York?
1) Is it true that the Queen of Hearts playing card is based upon the
portrait of Elizabeth wearing the gable style head dress and holding a
white rose?
2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that Elizabeth
would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the Queen had
within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect that
whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not, who was
it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it come
from?
Any help will be gratefully received.
Joanne
Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2006-02-18 03:06:14
--- In , "jotwo2003"
<jsummerill@...> wrote:
> white rose?
> 2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that
Elizabeth
> would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the Queen had
> within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect that
> whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not, who was
> it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it come
> from?
That story is connected to Elizabeth I, not Elizabeth of York. I'm
sure it's in many biographies of her.
I don't recall the name of the court physician/soothsayer. but he had
been confidently telling Henry VIII what he wanted to hear -- that Anne
Boleyn was going to have a boy. When the baby arrived the "doctor"
was outside the birthing chamber and sent word in that there must be a
boy within...the head midwife sent back the words you quoted.
There is another story that there was an old blind woman out in the
hinterlands who had the reputation for being able to foretell the sex
of an expected child by handling the underclothing of the pregnant
woman. Henry VIII was so anxious to know if Anne Boleyn was going to
present him with an heir that he had her shift taken to the old woman.
The old woman touched and fingered it for quite some time, saying first
that it was a boy, then changing her mind that it was a girl, then
finally flinging it away in anger and saying they were testing her,
tring to fool her -- the shift had been worn by two women, one pregnant
with a boy, the other with a girl.
There are quite a few stories that imply that Elizabeth I was, if
notactually male, at least not a normal female.
Katy
<jsummerill@...> wrote:
> white rose?
> 2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that
Elizabeth
> would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the Queen had
> within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect that
> whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not, who was
> it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it come
> from?
That story is connected to Elizabeth I, not Elizabeth of York. I'm
sure it's in many biographies of her.
I don't recall the name of the court physician/soothsayer. but he had
been confidently telling Henry VIII what he wanted to hear -- that Anne
Boleyn was going to have a boy. When the baby arrived the "doctor"
was outside the birthing chamber and sent word in that there must be a
boy within...the head midwife sent back the words you quoted.
There is another story that there was an old blind woman out in the
hinterlands who had the reputation for being able to foretell the sex
of an expected child by handling the underclothing of the pregnant
woman. Henry VIII was so anxious to know if Anne Boleyn was going to
present him with an heir that he had her shift taken to the old woman.
The old woman touched and fingered it for quite some time, saying first
that it was a boy, then changing her mind that it was a girl, then
finally flinging it away in anger and saying they were testing her,
tring to fool her -- the shift had been worn by two women, one pregnant
with a boy, the other with a girl.
There are quite a few stories that imply that Elizabeth I was, if
notactually male, at least not a normal female.
Katy
Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2006-02-18 10:58:07
Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
heirs.
Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
her to marry.
--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "jotwo2003"
> <jsummerill@> wrote:
>
> > white rose?
> > 2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that
> Elizabeth
> > would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the Queen
had
> > within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect that
> > whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not, who
was
> > it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it
come
> > from?
>
>
> That story is connected to Elizabeth I, not Elizabeth of York. I'm
> sure it's in many biographies of her.
>
> I don't recall the name of the court physician/soothsayer. but he
had
> been confidently telling Henry VIII what he wanted to hear -- that
Anne
> Boleyn was going to have a boy. When the baby arrived
the "doctor"
> was outside the birthing chamber and sent word in that there must
be a
> boy within...the head midwife sent back the words you quoted.
>
> There is another story that there was an old blind woman out in
the
> hinterlands who had the reputation for being able to foretell the
sex
> of an expected child by handling the underclothing of the pregnant
> woman. Henry VIII was so anxious to know if Anne Boleyn was going
to
> present him with an heir that he had her shift taken to the old
woman.
>
> The old woman touched and fingered it for quite some time, saying
first
> that it was a boy, then changing her mind that it was a girl, then
> finally flinging it away in anger and saying they were testing her,
> tring to fool her -- the shift had been worn by two women, one
pregnant
> with a boy, the other with a girl.
>
> There are quite a few stories that imply that Elizabeth I was, if
> notactually male, at least not a normal female.
>
> Katy
>
don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
heirs.
Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
her to marry.
--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "jotwo2003"
> <jsummerill@> wrote:
>
> > white rose?
> > 2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that
> Elizabeth
> > would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the Queen
had
> > within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect that
> > whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not, who
was
> > it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it
come
> > from?
>
>
> That story is connected to Elizabeth I, not Elizabeth of York. I'm
> sure it's in many biographies of her.
>
> I don't recall the name of the court physician/soothsayer. but he
had
> been confidently telling Henry VIII what he wanted to hear -- that
Anne
> Boleyn was going to have a boy. When the baby arrived
the "doctor"
> was outside the birthing chamber and sent word in that there must
be a
> boy within...the head midwife sent back the words you quoted.
>
> There is another story that there was an old blind woman out in
the
> hinterlands who had the reputation for being able to foretell the
sex
> of an expected child by handling the underclothing of the pregnant
> woman. Henry VIII was so anxious to know if Anne Boleyn was going
to
> present him with an heir that he had her shift taken to the old
woman.
>
> The old woman touched and fingered it for quite some time, saying
first
> that it was a boy, then changing her mind that it was a girl, then
> finally flinging it away in anger and saying they were testing her,
> tring to fool her -- the shift had been worn by two women, one
pregnant
> with a boy, the other with a girl.
>
> There are quite a few stories that imply that Elizabeth I was, if
> notactually male, at least not a normal female.
>
> Katy
>
Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2006-02-18 12:16:15
--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis?
I
> don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but
I
> don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> heirs.
> Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is
what
> she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> her to marry.
>
> I have read, in more than one source, that her laundresses
considered her fertile - which is enough to suggest that she was
functionally female on the inside. You are probably most correct in
your last paragraph as she seems to have flirted with a lot of men
and been jealous of other women.
None of Henry VIII's legitimate offspring ever reproduced, nor did
Henry Fitzroy but the Careys of Hunsdon are supposedly his children
and have flourished to the point that the late Queen Mother was one
of their line.
Imagine, that ogre's descendants back since 1952.
> --- In , oregonkaty
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , "jotwo2003"
> > <jsummerill@> wrote:
> >
> > > white rose?
> > > 2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that
> > Elizabeth
> > > would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the
Queen
> had
> > > within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect
that
> > > whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not,
who
> was
> > > it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it
> come
> > > from?
> >
> >
> > That story is connected to Elizabeth I, not Elizabeth of York.
I'm
> > sure it's in many biographies of her.
> >
> > I don't recall the name of the court physician/soothsayer. but he
> had
> > been confidently telling Henry VIII what he wanted to hear --
that
> Anne
> > Boleyn was going to have a boy. When the baby arrived
> the "doctor"
> > was outside the birthing chamber and sent word in that there must
> be a
> > boy within...the head midwife sent back the words you quoted.
> >
> > There is another story that there was an old blind woman out in
> the
> > hinterlands who had the reputation for being able to foretell the
> sex
> > of an expected child by handling the underclothing of the
pregnant
> > woman. Henry VIII was so anxious to know if Anne Boleyn was
going
> to
> > present him with an heir that he had her shift taken to the old
> woman.
> >
> > The old woman touched and fingered it for quite some time, saying
> first
> > that it was a boy, then changing her mind that it was a girl,
then
> > finally flinging it away in anger and saying they were testing
her,
> > tring to fool her -- the shift had been worn by two women, one
> pregnant
> > with a boy, the other with a girl.
> >
> > There are quite a few stories that imply that Elizabeth I was, if
> > notactually male, at least not a normal female.
> >
> > Katy
> >
>
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis?
I
> don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but
I
> don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> heirs.
> Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is
what
> she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> her to marry.
>
> I have read, in more than one source, that her laundresses
considered her fertile - which is enough to suggest that she was
functionally female on the inside. You are probably most correct in
your last paragraph as she seems to have flirted with a lot of men
and been jealous of other women.
None of Henry VIII's legitimate offspring ever reproduced, nor did
Henry Fitzroy but the Careys of Hunsdon are supposedly his children
and have flourished to the point that the late Queen Mother was one
of their line.
Imagine, that ogre's descendants back since 1952.
> --- In , oregonkaty
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , "jotwo2003"
> > <jsummerill@> wrote:
> >
> > > white rose?
> > > 2) Was Domenico de Serigo the physician who prophesised that
> > Elizabeth
> > > would be a boy. However when he asked the midwife what the
Queen
> had
> > > within the lying in chamber he was told words to the effect
that
> > > whatever there was within, there was a fool without. If not,
who
> was
> > > it? What's the exact wording of the anecdote and where does it
> come
> > > from?
> >
> >
> > That story is connected to Elizabeth I, not Elizabeth of York.
I'm
> > sure it's in many biographies of her.
> >
> > I don't recall the name of the court physician/soothsayer. but he
> had
> > been confidently telling Henry VIII what he wanted to hear --
that
> Anne
> > Boleyn was going to have a boy. When the baby arrived
> the "doctor"
> > was outside the birthing chamber and sent word in that there must
> be a
> > boy within...the head midwife sent back the words you quoted.
> >
> > There is another story that there was an old blind woman out in
> the
> > hinterlands who had the reputation for being able to foretell the
> sex
> > of an expected child by handling the underclothing of the
pregnant
> > woman. Henry VIII was so anxious to know if Anne Boleyn was
going
> to
> > present him with an heir that he had her shift taken to the old
> woman.
> >
> > The old woman touched and fingered it for quite some time, saying
> first
> > that it was a boy, then changing her mind that it was a girl,
then
> > finally flinging it away in anger and saying they were testing
her,
> > tring to fool her -- the shift had been worn by two women, one
> pregnant
> > with a boy, the other with a girl.
> >
> > There are quite a few stories that imply that Elizabeth I was, if
> > notactually male, at least not a normal female.
> >
> > Katy
> >
>
Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2006-02-18 16:49:17
--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
> don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
> don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> heirs.
> Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
> she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> her to marry.
There is no evidence, that I know of,that Henry VIII ever had syphilis,
nor that his children had congenital syphilis. Congenital syphilis is
very distinctive and easy to recognize.
Historians seem to glom onto two favorite diseases -- syphilis and
tuberculosis -- and try to assign them to everyone in sight, even
though several other diseases or combinations of diseases (they aren't
rationed one to a person, you know) would explain things just as well
and be more likely.
Osteomyelitis would explain the never-healing wound in Henry's thigh,
and traumatic brain damage would explain his personality deterioration.
We know he was an avid jouster in his youth and sustained many injuries
from the sport.
Katy
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
> don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
> don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> heirs.
> Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
> she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> her to marry.
There is no evidence, that I know of,that Henry VIII ever had syphilis,
nor that his children had congenital syphilis. Congenital syphilis is
very distinctive and easy to recognize.
Historians seem to glom onto two favorite diseases -- syphilis and
tuberculosis -- and try to assign them to everyone in sight, even
though several other diseases or combinations of diseases (they aren't
rationed one to a person, you know) would explain things just as well
and be more likely.
Osteomyelitis would explain the never-healing wound in Henry's thigh,
and traumatic brain damage would explain his personality deterioration.
We know he was an avid jouster in his youth and sustained many injuries
from the sport.
Katy
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of
2006-02-18 17:36:29
On 18 Feb 2006, at 11:36, Stephen Lark wrote:
>> Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis?
I understand this is myth. Edward VI certainly did not, and was
healthy until the last few months of his life. In fact he was turning
into his father if accounts written at the time are anything to go
by. He would have been as bad in the Protestant cause as Mary Tudor
had been in the Catholic one.
Paul
>> Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis?
I understand this is myth. Edward VI certainly did not, and was
healthy until the last few months of his life. In fact he was turning
into his father if accounts written at the time are anything to go
by. He would have been as bad in the Protestant cause as Mary Tudor
had been in the Catholic one.
Paul
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of
2006-02-18 18:31:43
A suggestion that I read elsewhere is that H8 might have suffered from
Cushing's Syndrome.
http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/cushings/cushings.htm
oregonkaty wrote:
> --- In , "theblackprussian"
> <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> >
> > Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
> > don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> > children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
> > don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> > heirs.
> > Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
> > she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> > her to marry.
>
>
> There is no evidence, that I know of,that Henry VIII ever had syphilis,
> nor that his children had congenital syphilis. Congenital syphilis is
> very distinctive and easy to recognize.
>
> Historians seem to glom onto two favorite diseases -- syphilis and
> tuberculosis -- and try to assign them to everyone in sight, even
> though several other diseases or combinations of diseases (they aren't
> rationed one to a person, you know) would explain things just as well
> and be more likely.
>
> Osteomyelitis would explain the never-healing wound in Henry's thigh,
> and traumatic brain damage would explain his personality deterioration.
> We know he was an avid jouster in his youth and sustained many injuries
> from the sport.
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+calling+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=Wa4nJ_E0VU7WvCR1WqML1A>
> United kingdom flower delivery
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=suwnigbzxGHDjTuxPOEYOA>
> Call united kingdom
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Call+united+kingdom&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=pCuoM6r-jyH3fIPQf4P1sA>
>
> United kingdom phone card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+phone+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=6azTZrzj2PBF7HOK84VyqA>
> United kingdom hotel
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+hotel&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=0PwHmUDGhpM37ZE9_Bb8qA>
> United kingdom vacation
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+vacation&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=AAVe10QjuLXgqY7yLADVTg>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Cushing's Syndrome.
http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/cushings/cushings.htm
oregonkaty wrote:
> --- In , "theblackprussian"
> <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> >
> > Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
> > don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> > children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
> > don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> > heirs.
> > Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
> > she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> > her to marry.
>
>
> There is no evidence, that I know of,that Henry VIII ever had syphilis,
> nor that his children had congenital syphilis. Congenital syphilis is
> very distinctive and easy to recognize.
>
> Historians seem to glom onto two favorite diseases -- syphilis and
> tuberculosis -- and try to assign them to everyone in sight, even
> though several other diseases or combinations of diseases (they aren't
> rationed one to a person, you know) would explain things just as well
> and be more likely.
>
> Osteomyelitis would explain the never-healing wound in Henry's thigh,
> and traumatic brain damage would explain his personality deterioration.
> We know he was an avid jouster in his youth and sustained many injuries
> from the sport.
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+calling+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=Wa4nJ_E0VU7WvCR1WqML1A>
> United kingdom flower delivery
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=suwnigbzxGHDjTuxPOEYOA>
> Call united kingdom
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Call+united+kingdom&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=pCuoM6r-jyH3fIPQf4P1sA>
>
> United kingdom phone card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+phone+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=6azTZrzj2PBF7HOK84VyqA>
> United kingdom hotel
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+hotel&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=0PwHmUDGhpM37ZE9_Bb8qA>
> United kingdom vacation
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+vacation&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=AAVe10QjuLXgqY7yLADVTg>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
[Richard III Society Forum] Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of York
2006-02-19 01:44:43
The tale about the fool without, relates to Elizabeth Woodville, when
she was giving birth to Elizabeth of York. The fool witout had
forecast that the queen would have a boy.
she was giving birth to Elizabeth of York. The fool witout had
forecast that the queen would have a boy.
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: 2 questions about Elizabeth of
2006-02-20 18:58:40
Interesting thought. Could this be genetic, after all Arthur died young and Henry Viii children were all sickly.
Marion
William Barber <bbarber@...> wrote: A suggestion that I read elsewhere is that H8 might have suffered from
Cushing's Syndrome.
http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/cushings/cushings.htm
oregonkaty wrote:
> --- In , "theblackprussian"
> <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> >
> > Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
> > don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> > children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
> > don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> > heirs.
> > Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
> > she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> > her to marry.
>
>
> There is no evidence, that I know of,that Henry VIII ever had syphilis,
> nor that his children had congenital syphilis. Congenital syphilis is
> very distinctive and easy to recognize.
>
> Historians seem to glom onto two favorite diseases -- syphilis and
> tuberculosis -- and try to assign them to everyone in sight, even
> though several other diseases or combinations of diseases (they aren't
> rationed one to a person, you know) would explain things just as well
> and be more likely.
>
> Osteomyelitis would explain the never-healing wound in Henry's thigh,
> and traumatic brain damage would explain his personality deterioration.
> We know he was an avid jouster in his youth and sustained many injuries
> from the sport.
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+calling+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=Wa4nJ_E0VU7WvCR1WqML1A>
> United kingdom flower delivery
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=suwnigbzxGHDjTuxPOEYOA>
> Call united kingdom
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Call+united+kingdom&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=pCuoM6r-jyH3fIPQf4P1sA>
>
> United kingdom phone card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+phone+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=6azTZrzj2PBF7HOK84VyqA>
> United kingdom hotel
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+hotel&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=0PwHmUDGhpM37ZE9_Bb8qA>
> United kingdom vacation
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+vacation&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=AAVe10QjuLXgqY7yLADVTg>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
SPONSORED LINKS
United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United kingdom vacation
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
Marion
William Barber <bbarber@...> wrote: A suggestion that I read elsewhere is that H8 might have suffered from
Cushing's Syndrome.
http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/cushings/cushings.htm
oregonkaty wrote:
> --- In , "theblackprussian"
> <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
> >
> > Didn't all Henry VIII's children suffer from congenital syphilis? I
> > don't believe any of Henry's offspring managed to produce any
> > children of their own. Mary had several "phantom" pregnancies, but I
> > don't think any real ones. Her brothers died too young to produce
> > heirs.
> > Or perhaps Elizabeth just didn't want to give up power, which is what
> > she would probably have to have done if she'd given in to pleas for
> > her to marry.
>
>
> There is no evidence, that I know of,that Henry VIII ever had syphilis,
> nor that his children had congenital syphilis. Congenital syphilis is
> very distinctive and easy to recognize.
>
> Historians seem to glom onto two favorite diseases -- syphilis and
> tuberculosis -- and try to assign them to everyone in sight, even
> though several other diseases or combinations of diseases (they aren't
> rationed one to a person, you know) would explain things just as well
> and be more likely.
>
> Osteomyelitis would explain the never-healing wound in Henry's thigh,
> and traumatic brain damage would explain his personality deterioration.
> We know he was an avid jouster in his youth and sustained many injuries
> from the sport.
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+calling+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=Wa4nJ_E0VU7WvCR1WqML1A>
> United kingdom flower delivery
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=suwnigbzxGHDjTuxPOEYOA>
> Call united kingdom
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Call+united+kingdom&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=pCuoM6r-jyH3fIPQf4P1sA>
>
> United kingdom phone card
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+phone+card&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=6azTZrzj2PBF7HOK84VyqA>
> United kingdom hotel
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+hotel&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=0PwHmUDGhpM37ZE9_Bb8qA>
> United kingdom vacation
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=United+kingdom+vacation&w1=United+kingdom+calling+card&w2=United+kingdom+flower+delivery&w3=Call+united+kingdom&w4=United+kingdom+phone+card&w5=United+kingdom+hotel&w6=United+kingdom+vacation&c=6&s=180&.sig=AAVe10QjuLXgqY7yLADVTg>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
SPONSORED LINKS
United kingdom calling card United kingdom flower delivery Call united kingdom United kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United kingdom vacation
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
Richard III on Amazon
As an Amazon Associate, We earn from qualifying purchases.