John Tiptoft - 1st Earl of Worcester

Greetings all.

I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
who was also known as "The Butcher of England" for his cruel way in
dealing with Lancastrian prisoners.

He was also an extremely well learned man, undertook pilgrimages to
the Holy Land, and was regarded as one of the most eminent minds of
his day.

He was executed in 1470 by the Lancastrians.

We know quite a bit aobut him, and I recently visited his tomb (where
ghe isnt actually buried in fact) at Ely Catherdral, but I am finding
it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of arms.
We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.

If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you have
any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
him further.

Many thanks.

--- In , "John Horgan"
<elhoggo@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
> household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
> who was also known as "The Butcher of England" for his cruel way in
> dealing with Lancastrian prisoners.
>
> He was also an extremely well learned man, undertook pilgrimages to
> the Holy Land, and was regarded as one of the most eminent minds of
> his day.
>
> He was executed in 1470 by the Lancastrians.
>
> We know quite a bit aobut him, and I recently visited his tomb
(where
> ghe isnt actually buried in fact) at Ely Catherdral, but I am
finding
> it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of
arms.
> We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
>
> If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you
have
> any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
> him further.
>
> Many thanks.
>
Many of us officially visited Ely Cathedral in June 2004. It is an
interesting venue and we were told a lot about Tiptoft and his habit
of maximing battle casualties among Lancastrian peers. It was also
said that there was more learning in his (detached) head than in any
in the Kingdom.

Incidentally, here goes another riddle:
What is the easiest connection between Richard III and the Holy Land?

--- In , "John Horgan"
<elhoggo@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
> household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
>
(snip)I am finding
> it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of arms.
> We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
>
> If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you have
> any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
> him further.


The first place I would look is in "Shakespeare's Heraldry" in hope
that he was a character in one of the Bard's plays. I can't help by
consulting my own copy because it's on loan.

Katy

i had a look for Shakespeare's Heraldry at www.bookfinder.com
one can pick up a used library copy in the uk for about 10 dollars cdn. (about 5 brit pounds) or you can spend up to 180 dollars cdn for a very good condition used in north america...not including shipping and handling charges.

good hunting
roslyn

oregonkaty <[email protected]> wrote:
--- In , "John Horgan"
<elhoggo@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
> household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
>
(snip)I am finding
> it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of arms.
> We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
>
> If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you have
> any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
> him further.


The first place I would look is in "Shakespeare's Heraldry" in hope
that he was a character in one of the Bard's plays. I can't help by
consulting my own copy because it's on loan.

Katy





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Thanks for your replies - I will try to get a look at Shakespeare's
Heraldry. If you want to visit our fledgling site its at
http://www.worcesterhousehold.co.uk


--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> i had a look for Shakespeare's Heraldry at www.bookfinder.com
> one can pick up a used library copy in the uk for about 10 dollars
cdn. (about 5 brit pounds) or you can spend up to 180 dollars cdn for
a very good condition used in north america...not including shipping
and handling charges.
>
> good hunting
> roslyn
>
> oregonkaty <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- In , "John Horgan"
> <elhoggo@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings all.
> >
> > I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
> > household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
> >
> (snip)I am finding
> > it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of arms.
> > We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
> >
> > If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you have
> > any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
> > him further.
>
>
> The first place I would look is in "Shakespeare's Heraldry" in hope
> that he was a character in one of the Bard's plays. I can't help by
> consulting my own copy because it's on loan.
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United kingdom vacation
United kingdom travel
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hello John,

This is my field of speciality!

If you look on the files page under my Kingmaker Cards (I think its
on file 3) you'll find a rendering of the Tiptoft arms.
The basic arms were argent a saltaire engrailed gules for Tiptoft.
John Earl of Worcester bore these quartered with Charlton of Powys;
or a lion rampant gules. He was co-heir (with Grey of Powys) to the
Charlton barony through his mother Joyce. Through this line he also
inherited part of the Holland property including Brockenhurst in
Hampshire.



--- In , "John Horgan"
<elhoggo@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
> household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
> who was also known as "The Butcher of England" for his cruel way in
> dealing with Lancastrian prisoners.
>
> He was also an extremely well learned man, undertook pilgrimages to
> the Holy Land, and was regarded as one of the most eminent minds of
> his day.
>
> He was executed in 1470 by the Lancastrians.
>
> We know quite a bit aobut him, and I recently visited his tomb
(where
> ghe isnt actually buried in fact) at Ely Catherdral, but I am
finding
> it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of
arms.
> We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
>
> If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you
have
> any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
> him further.
>
> Many thanks.
>

Excellent - thanks a lot. We had found this coat of arms elsewhere but
were unable to positively confirm it, as we only had the one source.

We are going to use a purple griffin with yellow wings as his badge as
well, this appears on his crest and also is on top of his helmet -
although broken - on his tomb. We are making quartered yellow (golden
yellow) and white livery coats which will have the saltire in the
white areas as well. I'll send post pictures on our website once it's
done.


--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Hello John,
>
> This is my field of speciality!
>
> If you look on the files page under my Kingmaker Cards (I think its
> on file 3) you'll find a rendering of the Tiptoft arms.
> The basic arms were argent a saltaire engrailed gules for Tiptoft.
> John Earl of Worcester bore these quartered with Charlton of Powys;
> or a lion rampant gules. He was co-heir (with Grey of Powys) to the
> Charlton barony through his mother Joyce. Through this line he also
> inherited part of the Holland property including Brockenhurst in
> Hampshire.
>
>
>
> --- In , "John Horgan"
> <elhoggo@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings all.
> >
> > I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming a new
> > household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John Tiptoft
> > who was also known as "The Butcher of England" for his cruel way in
> > dealing with Lancastrian prisoners.
> >
> > He was also an extremely well learned man, undertook pilgrimages to
> > the Holy Land, and was regarded as one of the most eminent minds of
> > his day.
> >
> > He was executed in 1470 by the Lancastrians.
> >
> > We know quite a bit aobut him, and I recently visited his tomb
> (where
> > ghe isnt actually buried in fact) at Ely Catherdral, but I am
> finding
> > it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat of
> arms.
> > We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
> >
> > If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if you
> have
> > any links or book references, please let me know so we can research
> > him further.
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
>

I've posted a scan of Tiptoft's Amrs on the files page. This is from
A new dictionary of Heraldry (Stephen Friar).
You'll notice the escutcheon of pretence in the centre of the shield -
this is in right of Tiptoft's first wife Cecily Neville, daughter of
the Earl of Salisbury.


--- In , "John Horgan"
<elhoggo@...> wrote:
>
>
> Excellent - thanks a lot. We had found this coat of arms elsewhere
but
> were unable to positively confirm it, as we only had the one source.
>
> We are going to use a purple griffin with yellow wings as his badge
as
> well, this appears on his crest and also is on top of his helmet -
> although broken - on his tomb. We are making quartered yellow
(golden
> yellow) and white livery coats which will have the saltire in the
> white areas as well. I'll send post pictures on our website once
it's
> done.
>
>
> --- In , "theblackprussian"
> <theblackprussian@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello John,
> >
> > This is my field of speciality!
> >
> > If you look on the files page under my Kingmaker Cards (I think
its
> > on file 3) you'll find a rendering of the Tiptoft arms.
> > The basic arms were argent a saltaire engrailed gules for
Tiptoft.
> > John Earl of Worcester bore these quartered with Charlton of
Powys;
> > or a lion rampant gules. He was co-heir (with Grey of Powys) to
the
> > Charlton barony through his mother Joyce. Through this line he
also
> > inherited part of the Holland property including Brockenhurst in
> > Hampshire.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , "John Horgan"
> > <elhoggo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Greetings all.
> > >
> > > I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming
a new
> > > household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John
Tiptoft
> > > who was also known as "The Butcher of England" for his cruel
way in
> > > dealing with Lancastrian prisoners.
> > >
> > > He was also an extremely well learned man, undertook
pilgrimages to
> > > the Holy Land, and was regarded as one of the most eminent
minds of
> > > his day.
> > >
> > > He was executed in 1470 by the Lancastrians.
> > >
> > > We know quite a bit aobut him, and I recently visited his tomb
> > (where
> > > ghe isnt actually buried in fact) at Ely Catherdral, but I am
> > finding
> > > it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat
of
> > arms.
> > > We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
> > >
> > > If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if
you
> > have
> > > any links or book references, please let me know so we can
research
> > > him further.
> > >
> > > Many thanks.
> > >
> >
>

Superb - thanks.

--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> I've posted a scan of Tiptoft's Amrs on the files page. This is from
> A new dictionary of Heraldry (Stephen Friar).
> You'll notice the escutcheon of pretence in the centre of the shield -
> this is in right of Tiptoft's first wife Cecily Neville, daughter of
> the Earl of Salisbury.
>
>
> --- In , "John Horgan"
> <elhoggo@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Excellent - thanks a lot. We had found this coat of arms elsewhere
> but
> > were unable to positively confirm it, as we only had the one source.
> >
> > We are going to use a purple griffin with yellow wings as his badge
> as
> > well, this appears on his crest and also is on top of his helmet -
> > although broken - on his tomb. We are making quartered yellow
> (golden
> > yellow) and white livery coats which will have the saltire in the
> > white areas as well. I'll send post pictures on our website once
> it's
> > done.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "theblackprussian"
> > <theblackprussian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello John,
> > >
> > > This is my field of speciality!
> > >
> > > If you look on the files page under my Kingmaker Cards (I think
> its
> > > on file 3) you'll find a rendering of the Tiptoft arms.
> > > The basic arms were argent a saltaire engrailed gules for
> Tiptoft.
> > > John Earl of Worcester bore these quartered with Charlton of
> Powys;
> > > or a lion rampant gules. He was co-heir (with Grey of Powys) to
> the
> > > Charlton barony through his mother Joyce. Through this line he
> also
> > > inherited part of the Holland property including Brockenhurst in
> > > Hampshire.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "John Horgan"
> > > <elhoggo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Greetings all.
> > > >
> > > > I belong to the Medieval Siege Society and we are just forming
> a new
> > > > household - The House of Worcester - based around Baron John
> Tiptoft
> > > > who was also known as "The Butcher of England" for his cruel
> way in
> > > > dealing with Lancastrian prisoners.
> > > >
> > > > He was also an extremely well learned man, undertook
> pilgrimages to
> > > > the Holy Land, and was regarded as one of the most eminent
> minds of
> > > > his day.
> > > >
> > > > He was executed in 1470 by the Lancastrians.
> > > >
> > > > We know quite a bit aobut him, and I recently visited his tomb
> > > (where
> > > > ghe isnt actually buried in fact) at Ely Catherdral, but I am
> > > finding
> > > > it very hard to locate many references to his livery and coat
> of
> > > arms.
> > > > We need these to encompass into our household standard etc.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows any more aobut the controversial Earl, or if
> you
> > > have
> > > > any links or book references, please let me know so we can
> research
> > > > him further.
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <smlark@...> wrote:
>
>>
> Incidentally, here goes another riddle:
> What is the easiest connection between Richard III and the Holy Land?

Oh Stephen please dont keep us in suspenders any longer, I, for one, give up - what is it?

Eileen
>

All I can think of that Richard had a desire to go on a crusade there.

Helen

eileen <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:
--- In , "Stephen Lark" <smlark@...> wrote:
>
>>
> Incidentally, here goes another riddle:
> What is the easiest connection between Richard III and the Holy Land?

Oh Stephen please dont keep us in suspenders any longer, I, for one, give up - what is it?

Eileen
>






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--- In , Helen Rowe
<sweethelly2003@...> wrote:
>
> All I can think of that Richard had a desire to go on a crusade
there.
>
> Helen
>
> eileen <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
<smlark@> wrote:
> >
> >>
> > Incidentally, here goes another riddle:
> > What is the easiest connection between Richard III and the Holy
Land?
>
> Oh Stephen please dont keep us in suspenders any longer, I, for
one, give up - what is it?
>
> Eileen
> >
> The answer: his grandmother was born Anne Mortimer. This comes from
the French MORTE MER, meaning Dead Sea, which is a feature of the
Middle East.
I realise that Richard was a half-great-nephew of Henry IV, another
would-be crusader, who died peacefully in a room known as "Jerusalem".

Now you mention suspenders, Eileen, I was reminded of the idea at the
Tower in March when Chris Gravett put on his armour in that small
pieces of material were just as important as each piece of the armour
itself.
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> United kingdom calling card Call united kingdom United
kingdom phone card United kingdom hotel United kingdom
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>
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>
>
> Visit your group "" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> On Yahoo!7
> marie claire: The latest from Mercedes Australia Fashion Week.
>
>
>