speaking of Rotherham...

As I recall, Richard sent for Rotherham to bring him the privy seal so
he could use it to sentence Buckingham to death, and either Richard
didn't give it back or he dismissed Rotherham from his post as
Chancellor soon afterward. Either action could have been sen as a
humiliating comeuppance for Rotherham, and caused his resentment.

And alao as I recall, he was the last bishop to use the name of his
hometown as his clerical surname. (His actual family name was Scor or
Score.) Supposedly high-ranking clerics did that to affirm that they
belonged to the world, not to one family, or something like that.)

Katy

--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> As I recall, Richard sent for Rotherham to bring him the privy seal
so
> he could use it to sentence Buckingham to death, and either Richard
> didn't give it back or he dismissed Rotherham from his post as
> Chancellor soon afterward. Either action could have been sen as a
> humiliating comeuppance for Rotherham, and caused his resentment.
>
> And alao as I recall, he was the last bishop to use the name of his
> hometown as his clerical surname. (His actual family name was Scor
or
> Score.) Supposedly high-ranking clerics did that to affirm that
they
> belonged to the world, not to one family, or something like that.)
>
> Katy
A,h, now maybe you've read that somewhere, but it's slander!
Rotherham was replaced as Chancellor during the protectorate, after
the little incident when he scurried off to Westminster Sanctuary to
give the Great Seal to Elzabeth Woodville, and had to be made to go
and get it bacj again. This was a hugely important incident - the
possession of the Great Seal basically conferred the ability to run
the country. Roth. then follows that up with involvement in the
Hastings plot.

Rotherham's replacement was John Russell, Bishop of Lincoln.

But this, of course, is another hugev grudge Rotherham would have had
against Richard - that he'd sacked him from the highest government
office in the land without anything to compensate. I don't think
Richard would have confided in him, not even in a desperate moment.

Of course, Tudor's victory didn't restore Rotherham to the
chancellorship, so far from being a mate of Morton's he might have
resented him. One person he might have chattered to during Henry's
reign who was still alive when Vergil wrote was Oxford. Rotherham had
apparently been the Oxfords' chaplain early on in his career.

When he heard of Buckingham's Rebellion Richard naturally sent for
Russell to come with the Great Seal (not just to cut off Buckingham's
head!), but Russell apparently pleaded illness and merely sent the
seal. Richard seems to have accepted this, and had enough confidence
in Russell to confide to him in scribble his deepest feelings about
Buckingham's betrayal.
The evidence for Russell being the Croyland Chronicler doesn't seem
to be very good, and most historians have now let go of this. He was
a-political during Henry's reign.

Marie




>

--- In , "mariewalsh2003" <marie@...> wrote:
>
>>
> Rotherham was replaced as Chancellor during the protectorate, after
> the little incident when he scurried off to Westminster Sanctuary to
> give the Great Seal to Elzabeth Woodville, and had to be made to go
> and get it bacj again. This was a hugely important incident - the
> possession of the Great Seal basically conferred the ability to run
> the country. Roth. then follows that up with involvement in the
> Hastings plot.

Oh Id forgotton about that


Marie wrote
>
I don't think
> Richard would have confided in him, not even in a desperate moment.

Yes come to think of it I think your right - when you think about the Great Seal argie
bargie - I dont think Richard would have confided such confidential thoughts to him - the
man was was obviously a right plonker!

Eileen
>
>


Of course, Tudor's victory didn't restore Rotherham to the
> chancellorship, so far from being a mate of Morton's he might have
> resented him. One person he might have chattered to during Henry's
> reign who was still alive when Vergil wrote was Oxford. Rotherham had
> apparently been the Oxfords' chaplain early on in his career.
>
> When he heard of Buckingham's Rebellion Richard naturally sent for
> Russell to come with the Great Seal (not just to cut off Buckingham's
> head!), but Russell apparently pleaded illness and merely sent the
> seal. Richard seems to have accepted this, and had enough confidence
> in Russell to confide to him in scribble his deepest feelings about
> Buckingham's betrayal.
> The evidence for Russell being the Croyland Chronicler doesn't seem
> to be very good, and most historians have now let go of this. He was
> a-political during Henry's reign.
>
> Marie
>
>
>
>
> >
>

--- In , "mariewalsh2003"
<marie@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , oregonkaty
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > As I recall, Richard sent for Rotherham to bring him the privy
seal
> so
> > he could use it to sentence Buckingham to death, and either
Richard
> > didn't give it back or he dismissed Rotherham from his post as
> > Chancellor soon afterward. Either action could have been sen as
a
> > humiliating comeuppance for Rotherham, and caused his resentment.
> >
> > And alao as I recall, he was the last bishop to use the name of
his
> > hometown as his clerical surname. (His actual family name was
Scor
> or
> > Score.) Supposedly high-ranking clerics did that to affirm
that
> they
> > belonged to the world, not to one family, or something like
that.)
> >
> > Katy
> A,h, now maybe you've read that somewhere, but it's slander!
> Rotherham was replaced as Chancellor during the protectorate,
after
> the little incident when he scurried off to Westminster Sanctuary
to
> give the Great Seal to Elzabeth Woodville, and had to be made to
go
> and get it bacj again. This was a hugely important incident - the
> possession of the Great Seal basically conferred the ability to
run
> the country. Roth. then follows that up with involvement in the
> Hastings plot.
>
> Rotherham's replacement was John Russell, Bishop of Lincoln.
>
> But this, of course, is another hugev grudge Rotherham would have
had
> against Richard - that he'd sacked him from the highest government
> office in the land without anything to compensate.


Once again, I win the Thomas More Memorial Award For Recollection of
Historical Facts.

Katy

--- In , "mariewalsh2003"
<marie@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , oregonkaty
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > As I recall, Richard sent for Rotherham to bring him the privy
seal
> so
> > he could use it to sentence Buckingham to death, and either
Richard
> > didn't give it back or he dismissed Rotherham from his post as
> > Chancellor soon afterward. Either action could have been sen as
a
> > humiliating comeuppance for Rotherham, and caused his resentment.
> >
> > And alao as I recall, he was the last bishop to use the name of
his
> > hometown as his clerical surname. (His actual family name was
Scor
> or
> > Score.) Supposedly high-ranking clerics did that to affirm
that
> they
> > belonged to the world, not to one family, or something like
that.)
> >
> > Katy
> A,h, now maybe you've read that somewhere, but it's slander!
> Rotherham was replaced as Chancellor during the protectorate,
after
> the little incident when he scurried off to Westminster Sanctuary
to
> give the Great Seal to Elzabeth Woodville, and had to be made to
go
> and get it bacj again. This was a hugely important incident - the
> possession of the Great Seal basically conferred the ability to
run
> the country. Roth. then follows that up with involvement in the
> Hastings plot.
>
> Rotherham's replacement was John Russell, Bishop of Lincoln.
>
> But this, of course, is another hugev grudge Rotherham would have
had
> against Richard - that he'd sacked him from the highest government
> office in the land without anything to compensate.


Once again, I win the Thomas More Memorial Award For Recollection of
Historical Facts.

Katy

--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "mariewalsh2003"
> <marie@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , oregonkaty
> > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > As I recall, Richard sent for Rotherham to bring him the privy
> seal
> > so
> > > he could use it to sentence Buckingham to death, and either
> Richard
> > > didn't give it back or he dismissed Rotherham from his post as
> > > Chancellor soon afterward. Either action could have been sen
as
> a
> > > humiliating comeuppance for Rotherham, and caused his
resentment.
> > >
> > > And alao as I recall, he was the last bishop to use the name
of
> his
> > > hometown as his clerical surname. (His actual family name was
> Scor
> > or
> > > Score.) Supposedly high-ranking clerics did that to affirm
> that
> > they
> > > belonged to the world, not to one family, or something like
> that.)
> > >
> > > Katy
> > A,h, now maybe you've read that somewhere, but it's slander!
> > Rotherham was replaced as Chancellor during the protectorate,
> after
> > the little incident when he scurried off to Westminster
Sanctuary
> to
> > give the Great Seal to Elzabeth Woodville, and had to be made to
> go
> > and get it bacj again. This was a hugely important incident -
the
> > possession of the Great Seal basically conferred the ability to
> run
> > the country. Roth. then follows that up with involvement in the
> > Hastings plot.
> >
> > Rotherham's replacement was John Russell, Bishop of Lincoln.
> >
> > But this, of course, is another hugev grudge Rotherham would
have
> had
> > against Richard - that he'd sacked him from the highest
government
> > office in the land without anything to compensate.
>
>
> Once again, I win the Thomas More Memorial Award For Recollection
of
> Historical Facts.
>
> Katy


Not to mention double-posting. Sorry about that. I don't know how
I managed it.

Katy again

Thomas Rotherham, before becoming Lord Chancellor and Archbishop, was
Rector of Hadleigh. The Mid-Anglia Group visited that town this
afternoon and found a list of Rectors on a board on the wall of St.
Mary's Church.
We also learned a lot about Rowland Tayler (Rector 1544-54), victim
of the "Lancastrian policy" of religious persecution.

--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , oregonkaty
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , "mariewalsh2003"
> > <marie@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In , oregonkaty
> > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > As I recall, Richard sent for Rotherham to bring him the
privy
> > seal
> > > so
> > > > he could use it to sentence Buckingham to death, and either
> > Richard
> > > > didn't give it back or he dismissed Rotherham from his post
as
> > > > Chancellor soon afterward. Either action could have been sen
> as
> > a
> > > > humiliating comeuppance for Rotherham, and caused his
> resentment.
> > > >
> > > > And alao as I recall, he was the last bishop to use the name
> of
> > his
> > > > hometown as his clerical surname. (His actual family name
was
> > Scor
> > > or
> > > > Score.) Supposedly high-ranking clerics did that to affirm
> > that
> > > they
> > > > belonged to the world, not to one family, or something like
> > that.)
> > > >
> > > > Katy
> > > A,h, now maybe you've read that somewhere, but it's slander!
> > > Rotherham was replaced as Chancellor during the protectorate,
> > after
> > > the little incident when he scurried off to Westminster
> Sanctuary
> > to
> > > give the Great Seal to Elzabeth Woodville, and had to be made
to
> > go
> > > and get it bacj again. This was a hugely important incident -
> the
> > > possession of the Great Seal basically conferred the ability to
> > run
> > > the country. Roth. then follows that up with involvement in the
> > > Hastings plot.
> > >
> > > Rotherham's replacement was John Russell, Bishop of Lincoln.
> > >
> > > But this, of course, is another hugev grudge Rotherham would
> have
> > had
> > > against Richard - that he'd sacked him from the highest
> government
> > > office in the land without anything to compensate.
> >
> >
> > Once again, I win the Thomas More Memorial Award For Recollection
> of
> > Historical Facts.
> >
> > Katy
>
>
> Not to mention double-posting. Sorry about that. I don't know how
> I managed it.
>
> Katy again
>