Fw: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
Fw: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
2006-08-15 16:49:54
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Lark
To: Stephen Lark
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
I meant unrelated to your Beauchamps. She was HT and RP's grandmother and JW's mother.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Lark
To:
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
You're telling me. I recently confirmed Henry Tudor, Richard Pole and Lord Welles as having a common ancestor - Margaret Beauchamp - who appears to be totally unrelated to either of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: oregonkaty
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
--- In , "Brian Wainwright"
<Brian@...> wrote:
>
> >>It is interesting to note that Eleanor's mother was a Butler.
>
>
> I don't see how she could be. John Talbot had two wives, Maud
Neville (aka Furnival, her father being Thomas Neville, Lord
Furnival) and Margaret Beauchamp. Chronology, if nothing else, tends
to allocate Eleanor to Countess Margaret, who was herself the
daughter of the well-known Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick and
his first wife, Elizabeth Berkeley.
The second wife of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, was Isabel
Despenser, widow of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Worcester. Isabel
Despenser and her two husbands, Richard Beauchamp and Richard
Beauchamp, is one of my favorite examples of the Same-Name
Complication.
Another is John Paston and his sons John and John, by the same wife,
all three of whom were, for several important years,all adults going
about their various business at the same time.
But the best example is Barbara Tuchman's account, in her foreword
to A Distant Mirror, that at one point in her research she
discovered that she had spent about a year and a half tracing the
life and career of her focus individual, Engerrand de Coucy, only to
real that there were *two* noblemen of that name, living at the same
time and moving in the same circles, and she had been following the
wrong one.
Katy
From: Stephen Lark
To: Stephen Lark
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
I meant unrelated to your Beauchamps. She was HT and RP's grandmother and JW's mother.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Lark
To:
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
You're telling me. I recently confirmed Henry Tudor, Richard Pole and Lord Welles as having a common ancestor - Margaret Beauchamp - who appears to be totally unrelated to either of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: oregonkaty
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: speaking of Eleanor Butler....
--- In , "Brian Wainwright"
<Brian@...> wrote:
>
> >>It is interesting to note that Eleanor's mother was a Butler.
>
>
> I don't see how she could be. John Talbot had two wives, Maud
Neville (aka Furnival, her father being Thomas Neville, Lord
Furnival) and Margaret Beauchamp. Chronology, if nothing else, tends
to allocate Eleanor to Countess Margaret, who was herself the
daughter of the well-known Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick and
his first wife, Elizabeth Berkeley.
The second wife of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, was Isabel
Despenser, widow of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Worcester. Isabel
Despenser and her two husbands, Richard Beauchamp and Richard
Beauchamp, is one of my favorite examples of the Same-Name
Complication.
Another is John Paston and his sons John and John, by the same wife,
all three of whom were, for several important years,all adults going
about their various business at the same time.
But the best example is Barbara Tuchman's account, in her foreword
to A Distant Mirror, that at one point in her research she
discovered that she had spent about a year and a half tracing the
life and career of her focus individual, Engerrand de Coucy, only to
real that there were *two* noblemen of that name, living at the same
time and moving in the same circles, and she had been following the
wrong one.
Katy
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