Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: "More Reason to the Rhyme"

I could not resist responding to this e-mail but it will reveal me as a "traitor" of sorts.
I met a woman in Sydney Australia several years ago on an Anne Boleyn interest group and we have become good friends although she is no longer on the group.
I have always been fascinated by the Tudor era but admit I never thought any of them were nice people. Henry VII was despicable as was Henry VIII - they were just despicable in different ways. Of Henry VIII's children Edward and Mary were frightening fanatics. Elizabeth was the only other one and she was not a nice person though I think she was a good ruler.
But the link with your e-mail is this:
About 4 weeks ago my friend Lyndal recently met Lord David Cecil. She is a professional assistant and was getting him tea before a meeting in the office where she works and asked him if he was a sitting member of Parliament. He said no, he was a younger son but his brother was until he retired. Lord Cecil was surprised at an Australian knowing about sitting members etc. She admitted an interest in all things English, and especially the Tudor era. He said "Then you would be interested in my childhood home." She nearly fainted when he said Hatfield which as you know was where Elizabeth I lived at the time she became queen. She had just not connected his name with his ancestors.
Lord Cecil was very nice and gave Lyndal his card and told her to call when she made it to England and he would give her a private tour of the house. She is still walking on air!
I toured it back in 1999 and also attended a banquet at the Great Hall which is all that is left of the old place where Elizabeth lived and where she held her first Court. The new Hatfield (around 400 years old) was built by Robert Cecil and you probably aready knew that it is still in the family but just in case, I thought I'd tell you my story.

I know about William but what is Robert's story? Why was he compared to Richard in the rhyme? Who hated him?

Thanks.

Amy Barkman

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Lark
To:
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: "More Reason to the Rhyme"


--- In , "L. Miller"
<pvtmeek@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Greetings from the wilds of Iowa.
>
> I've been on an Elizabethan reading jag the last few weeks,
which
> is odd for me since I dislike all things Tudor, but I've found two
> people who interest me---William Cecil, Lord Burghley and his son
> Robert Cecil, First Earl of Salisbury--both served as Secretary of
> State to Elizabeth I.
> Been through two biographies on Robert and just started a third
> one when I've found the following rhyme about Robert written after
> his death in 1612:
>
> "Here lies Robin Crookback, unjustly reckoned
> A Richard the Third, he was Judas the Second . . .
> Richard or Robert, which is the worse?
> A Crookback great in State is England's curse."
>
>
> Now, what I've read so far about Robert Cecil shows that he
> isn't as black as most people have painted him in history and he
was
> afterall a product of his time and managed to stay alive while
> working for two monarchs by knowing which way the political wind
was
> likely to blow.
> Anyway, I rather like Robert Cecil---he proves that it isn't
the
> size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.
>
> "Meek"
>
>
> P.S. I made sure to have at least one white rose in the house on
> August 22nd.
>
I thoroughly agree. By 1558, or even earlier, there was little
prospect of a Bosworth replay and the Henrician persecution of
Yorkists was over. Indeed, they returned to positions of authority:
Reginald Pole as Archbishop and Cardinal, Henry of Huntingdon as Lord
President of the Council of the North (1572-95).
As I revealed last week, William Cecil (Lord Burghley) was the co-
ancestor, with Anne of Exeter, of three Prime Ministers from 1860 to
1905; his sons being given the Yorkist earldoms of Exeter and
Salisbury.
In conclusion, Robert Cecil served England far better than his
contemporary, the Earl of Essex, and survived to serve Scotland as
well. We all have our doubts as to Richard's "disability".

Amy: I'll suggest two of the books I've been reading on Robert
Cecil but will also give you a very condensed version of part of his
life:

Born June 1, 1563---if he was born deformed or the curvature of
his spine developed as he grew, Robert had scoliocis that impaired
him for life but he had a keen intelligence; he was a member of
Parliment at the age of 21, sent on a diplomatice mission by
Elizabeth I to the Low Countries & France when he was 25, admitted
to the Privy Council at 28 & was right-hand man to his father Lord
Burghley and became Principal Secretary to the Queen when he was 33--
he also took over much of Walsinghams's spy network. Not much is
known of Robert's childhood but at one point in time Robert
Devereux, Earl of Essex was a ward of Lord Burghley's, as well as a
few other royal wards, and lived at his home for a time----I doubt
that the two Robert's liked each other for obvious reasons.
Elizabeth called Robert Cecil her "Pygmy" or "Elf" and James I
called him his "Beagle" and many others called him worse than that--
including his cousin Francis Bacon. For a little man, Robert Cecil
held a great deal of power and influence in high places which only
increased popular dislike of him.

Try reading "A Life of Robert Cecil, First Earl of Salisbury" by
an ancestor Algernon Cecil and "The Second Cecil: The Rise to Power"
by Phyllis Handover.

Regards,
"Meek"


Lord Cecil was very nice and gave Lyndal his card and told her to
call when she made it to England and he would give her a private
tour of the house. She is still walking on air!
> I toured it back in 1999 and also attended a banquet at the Great
Hall which is all that is left of the old place where Elizabeth
lived and where she held her first Court. The new Hatfield (around
400 years old) was built by Robert Cecil and you probably aready
knew that it is still in the family but just in case, I thought I'd
tell you my story.
>
> I know about William but what is Robert's story? Why was he
compared to Richard in the rhyme? Who hated him?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Amy Barkman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen Lark
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:54 AM
> Subject: Re: "More Reason to the
Rhyme"
>
>
> --- In , "L. Miller"
> <pvtmeek@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings from the wilds of Iowa.
> >
> > I've been on an Elizabethan reading jag the last few weeks,
> which
> > is odd for me since I dislike all things Tudor, but I've found
two
> > people who interest me---William Cecil, Lord Burghley and his
son
> > Robert Cecil, First Earl of Salisbury--both served as
Secretary of
> > State to Elizabeth I.
> > Been through two biographies on Robert and just started a
third
> > one when I've found the following rhyme about Robert written
after
> > his death in 1612:
> >
> > "Here lies Robin Crookback, unjustly reckoned
> > A Richard the Third, he was Judas the Second . . .
> > Richard or Robert, which is the worse?
> > A Crookback great in State is England's curse."
> >
> >
> > Now, what I've read so far about Robert Cecil shows that he
> > isn't as black as most people have painted him in history and
he
> was
> > afterall a product of his time and managed to stay alive while
> > working for two monarchs by knowing which way the political
wind
> was
> > likely to blow.
> > Anyway, I rather like Robert Cecil---he proves that it isn't
> the
> > size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the
dog.
> >
> > "Meek"
> >
> >
> > P.S. I made sure to have at least one white rose in the house
on
> > August 22nd.
> >
> I thoroughly agree. By 1558, or even earlier, there was little
> prospect of a Bosworth replay and the Henrician persecution of
> Yorkists was over. Indeed, they returned to positions of
authority:
> Reginald Pole as Archbishop and Cardinal, Henry of Huntingdon as
Lord
> President of the Council of the North (1572-95).
> As I revealed last week, William Cecil (Lord Burghley) was the
co-
> ancestor, with Anne of Exeter, of three Prime Ministers from
1860 to
> 1905; his sons being given the Yorkist earldoms of Exeter and
> Salisbury.
> In conclusion, Robert Cecil served England far better than his
> contemporary, the Earl of Essex, and survived to serve Scotland
as
> well. We all have our doubts as to Richard's "disability".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>