The best joke I have heard for a long time

This afternoon, Radio 4's Book Club (16:00 GMT) features Weir
who "writes popularhistorical biographies rooted in sound scholarship".

she apparently has a very good publicist!
;-)
Rene'

Weir I think the name! :-)
Paul

On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:

> she apparently has a very good publicist!
> ;-)
> Rene'
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email
> design.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

"Richard Liveth Yet!"

Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?

Patti
Tulsa, OK
USA

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale
<paultrevor@...> wrote:
>
> Weir I think the name! :-)
> Paul
>
> On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
>
> > she apparently has a very good publicist!
> > ;-)
> > Rene'
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------
--
> > ~-->
> > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email
> > design.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ~->
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> "Richard Liveth Yet!"
>

In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but keep your
enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read her.

PattiAnnie wrote:
>
> Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
>
> Patti
> Tulsa, OK
> USA
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor Bale
> <paultrevor@...> wrote:
> >
> > Weir I think the name! :-)
> > Paul
> >
> > On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
> >
> > > she apparently has a very good publicist!
> > > ;-)
> > > Rene'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------
> --
> > > ~-->
> > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email
> > > design.
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > > ~->
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > "Richard Liveth Yet!"
> >
>
>

I'm intrigued! Would you care to elaborate on your reasons?

I do read her, but I don't have an opinion as of yet. However, I do
believe I am one of a small number of Americans who know that Sun-
tzu coined the maxim well before Al Pacino.

So perhaps there is hope for me!

Patti




--- In , Bill Barber
<bbarber@...> wrote:
>
> In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but keep
your
> enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read
her.
>
> PattiAnnie wrote:
> >
> > Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
> >
> > Patti
> > Tulsa, OK
> > USA
> >
> > --- In
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor
Bale
> > <paultrevor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Weir I think the name! :-)
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
> > >
> > > > she apparently has a very good publicist!
> > > > ;-)
> > > > Rene'
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------
----
> > --
> > > > ~-->
> > > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new
email
> > > > design.
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > > > ~->
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > "Richard Liveth Yet!"
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

One of the problems I have is with her treatment of the alleged
letter from Elizabeth of York to Richard: the one that was given to
Howard to deliver. She treats the story as unassailable, and turns
it into a bit of a bodice-ripper. I believe there is only one source
for the story (Buck), and he was a tad loopy.


She tends to go for the salacious a bit, and she tends to make
conclusive statements on some fairly flimsy grounds.

Still and all, I do read her.

PattiAnnie wrote:
>
> I'm intrigued! Would you care to elaborate on your reasons?
>
> I do read her, but I don't have an opinion as of yet. However, I do
> believe I am one of a small number of Americans who know that Sun-
> tzu coined the maxim well before Al Pacino.
>
> So perhaps there is hope for me!
>
> Patti
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Barber
> <bbarber@...> wrote:
> >
> > In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but keep
> your
> > enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read
> her.
> >
> > PattiAnnie wrote:
> > >
> > > Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
> > >
> > > Patti
> > > Tulsa, OK
> > > USA
> > >
> > > --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor
> Bale
> > > <paultrevor@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Weir I think the name! :-)
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > she apparently has a very good publicist!
> > > > > ;-)
> > > > > Rene'
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------
> ----
> > > --
> > > > > ~-->
> > > > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new
> email
> > > > > design.
> > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
> > > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>>
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---
> > > > > ~->
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Richard Liveth Yet!"
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

An early opinion of mine was: "Sheesh, doesn't this woman like *anyone* other than Lizzy I?"

I find her research to be careless: when reading her book on Henry VIII's six wives, I started taking notes on errors I caught, beginning with Catherine of Aragon. Pretty soon, I'd drawn up enough of a list that I just gave up and read the book as if it were a novel. It worked better that way. She can be fairly manipulative, too, in the way she edits a quotation, for example to mislead a reader, or the way in which she phrases speculation to read as fact. Don't like that: in his bio of Emily Bronte, Edward Chitham warns his readers that there's not much out there on Emily, and he's going to do a lot of speculating, but that he'll tell us when he starts, and he'll tell us how and where he got his clues. And he keeps his promise, like an honest writer, so I'm very happy to place myself in his hands and debate with his ideas. Weir doesn't do that, and I stop trusting her, don't feel it's worth my time to engage with her, and lose interest in the book.

She has a good writing style, though.

Maria

elena@...



-----Original Message-----
>From: PattiAnnie <pabernius@...>
>Sent: Mar 9, 2007 3:00 PM
>To:
>Subject: Re: The best joke I have heard for a long time
>
>I'm intrigued! Would you care to elaborate on your reasons?
>
>I do read her, but I don't have an opinion as of yet. However, I do
>believe I am one of a small number of Americans who know that Sun-
>tzu coined the maxim well before Al Pacino.
>
>So perhaps there is hope for me!
>
>Patti
>
>
>
>
>--- In , Bill Barber
><bbarber@...> wrote:
>>
>> In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but keep
>your
>> enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read
>her.
>>
>> PattiAnnie wrote:
>> >
>> > Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
>> >
>> > Patti
>> > Tulsa, OK
>> > USA
>> >
>> > --- In
>> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor
>Bale
>> > <paultrevor@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Weir I think the name! :-)
>> > > Paul
>> > >
>> > > On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > she apparently has a very good publicist!
>> > > > ;-)
>> > > > Rene'
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------
>----
>> > --
>> > > > ~-->
>> > > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new
>email
>> > > > design.
>> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
>> > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
>> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---
>> > > > ~->
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > "Richard Liveth Yet!"
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--- In , Maria <ejbronte@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I find her research to be careless: when reading her book on Henry VIII's six wives, I
started taking notes on errors I caught, beginning with Catherine of Aragon. Pretty soon,
I'd drawn up enough of a list that I just gave up and read the book as if it were a novel. It
worked better that way. She can be fairly manipulative, too, in the way she edits a
quotation, for example to mislead a reader, or the way in which she phrases speculation to
read as fact. Don't like that: in his bio of Emily Bronte, Edward Chitham warns his readers
that there's not much out there on Emily, and he's going to do a lot of speculating, but
that he'll tell us when he starts, and he'll tell us how and where he got his clues. And he
keeps his promise, like an honest writer, so I'm very happy to place myself in his hands
and debate with his ideas. Weir doesn't do that, and I stop trusting her, don't feel it's
worth my time to engage with her, and lose interest in the book.

So she writes fiction then!

Eileen
>
> She has a good writing style, though.
>
> Maria
>
> elena@...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: PattiAnnie <pabernius@...>
> >Sent: Mar 9, 2007 3:00 PM
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: The best joke I have heard for a long time
> >
> >I'm intrigued! Would you care to elaborate on your reasons?
> >
> >I do read her, but I don't have an opinion as of yet. However, I do
> >believe I am one of a small number of Americans who know that Sun-
> >tzu coined the maxim well before Al Pacino.
> >
> >So perhaps there is hope for me!
> >
> >Patti
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In , Bill Barber
> ><bbarber@> wrote:
> >>
> >> In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but keep
> >your
> >> enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read
> >her.
> >>
> >> PattiAnnie wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
> >> >
> >> > Patti
> >> > Tulsa, OK
> >> > USA
> >> >
> >> > --- In
> >> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor
> >Bale
> >> > <paultrevor@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Weir I think the name! :-)
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > > On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > she apparently has a very good publicist!
> >> > > > ;-)
> >> > > > Rene'
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------
> >----
> >> > --
> >> > > > ~-->
> >> > > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new
> >email
> >> > > > design.
> >> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> >> > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
> >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> > ---
> >> > > > ~->
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > "Richard Liveth Yet!"
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

--- In , Maria <ejbronte@...>
wrote:
>
> An early opinion of mine was: "Sheesh, doesn't this woman like
*anyone* other than Lizzy I?"
>
> I find her research to be careless: when reading her book on Henry
VIII's six wives, I started taking notes on errors I caught,
beginning with Catherine of Aragon. Pretty soon, I'd drawn up enough
of a list that I just gave up and read the book as if it were a
novel. It worked better that way. She can be fairly manipulative,
too, in the way she edits a quotation, for example to mislead a
reader, or the way in which she phrases speculation to read as fact.
Don't like that: in his bio of Emily Bronte, Edward Chitham warns
his readers that there's not much out there on Emily, and he's going
to do a lot of speculating, but that he'll tell us when he starts,
and he'll tell us how and where he got his clues. And he keeps his
promise, like an honest writer, so I'm very happy to place myself in
his hands and debate with his ideas. Weir doesn't do that, and I
stop trusting her, don't feel it's worth my time to engage with her,
and lose interest in the book.
>
> She has a good writing style, though.
>
> Maria
>
> elena@...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: PattiAnnie <pabernius@...>
> >Sent: Mar 9, 2007 3:00 PM
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: The best joke I have
heard for a long time
> >
> >I'm intrigued! Would you care to elaborate on your reasons?
> >
> >I do read her, but I don't have an opinion as of yet. However, I
do
> >believe I am one of a small number of Americans who know that Sun-
> >tzu coined the maxim well before Al Pacino.
> >
> >So perhaps there is hope for me!
> >
> >Patti
> >
> >For those who are not aware, Weir is a historical novelist
masquerading as a serious historian. I think several of us on this
site - Marie and I for instance - are better historians but the
problem is that Weir's image is well-projected. She also has an
irrational hatred of Richard, among others, and accepts the
traditional version of the "Princes"'murder as holy writ. Like a bad
scientist, she tends to write her conclusion first and then work
towards it.
> >
> >
> >--- In , Bill Barber
> ><bbarber@> wrote:
> >>
> >> In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but
keep
> >your
> >> enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read
> >her.
> >>
> >> PattiAnnie wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
> >> >
> >> > Patti
> >> > Tulsa, OK
> >> > USA
> >> >
> >> > --- In
> >> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor
> >Bale
> >> > <paultrevor@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Weir I think the name! :-)
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > > On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > she apparently has a very good publicist!
> >> > > > ;-)
> >> > > > Rene'
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------
--
> >----
> >> > --
> >> > > > ~-->
> >> > > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new
> >email
> >> > > > design.
> >> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> >> > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
> >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> > ---
> >> > > > ~->
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > "Richard Liveth Yet!"
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

Bill Barber wrote:

>> Alison Weir's _*Princes in the Tower*_. <<

That would make sense, wouldn't it? My apologies. I
haven't read any of her books except "The Wars of
the Roses", a book which which ironically got me
interested in King Richard. She quietly admits to him
doing some pretty cool stuff, if you avoid being
distracted by the requisite "He's so EVAL!" comments.

"An Incestuous Passion". Why does that sound so
familiar? Did she nick that from Shakespeare?

>> Actually, the chapter title would be a good book
title. The cover could feature Fabio as Richard III.
How cool is that? <<

*wince* I did NOT need that mental image! Ugh! Ptooey!


>> I may have been a bit harsh on Buck. In truth, it
is contentious whether he was nuts or not. I really
didn't know him that well. <<

Nor do I, but it does seem awfully convenient that
charges of lunacy are slung at the first person to
really defend King Richard. It sounds like the result
of ticking off a bunch of overly complacent
historians. :P


Take care,
Kat

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Planto bardus populus subsisto sermo!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com

Yes Maria, her lowest common denominator style of prose is what gets
her published and read. But her grasp on facts is down to if they
agree with her theories or not. If the facts don't fit she twists
and turns and jumps through hoops to try and make them. She never
lets the facts get in the way of a good story!
Paul



On 9 Mar 2007, at 20:49, Maria wrote:

> An early opinion of mine was: "Sheesh, doesn't this woman like
> *anyone* other than Lizzy I?"
>
> I find her research to be careless: when reading her book on Henry
> VIII's six wives, I started taking notes on errors I caught,
> beginning with Catherine of Aragon. Pretty soon, I'd drawn up
> enough of a list that I just gave up and read the book as if it
> were a novel. It worked better that way. She can be fairly
> manipulative, too, in the way she edits a quotation, for example to
> mislead a reader, or the way in which she phrases speculation to
> read as fact. Don't like that: in his bio of Emily Bronte, Edward
> Chitham warns his readers that there's not much out there on Emily,
> and he's going to do a lot of speculating, but that he'll tell us
> when he starts, and he'll tell us how and where he got his clues.
> And he keeps his promise, like an honest writer, so I'm very happy
> to place myself in his hands and debate with his ideas. Weir
> doesn't do that, and I stop trusting her, don't feel it's worth my
> time to engage with her, and lose interest in the book.
>
> She has a good writing style, though.
>
> Maria
>
> elena@...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PattiAnnie <pabernius@...>
>> Sent: Mar 9, 2007 3:00 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: The best joke I have
>> heard for a long time
>>
>> I'm intrigued! Would you care to elaborate on your reasons?
>>
>> I do read her, but I don't have an opinion as of yet. However, I do
>> believe I am one of a small number of Americans who know that Sun-
>> tzu coined the maxim well before Al Pacino.
>>
>> So perhaps there is hope for me!
>>
>> Patti
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In , Bill Barber
>> <bbarber@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the true spirit of the maxim "keep your friends close, but keep
>> your
>>> enemies closer", although we don't like her, most of us do read
>> her.
>>>
>>> PattiAnnie wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Are we not a collective fan of Ms. Weir?
>>>>
>>>> Patti
>>>> Tulsa, OK
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>> --- In
>>>> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor
>> Bale
>>>> <paultrevor@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Weir I think the name! :-)
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4 Mar 2007, at 18:01, Stormysky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> she apparently has a very good publicist!
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>> Rene'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------
>> ----
>>>> --
>>>>>> ~-->
>>>>>> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new
>> email
>>>>>> design.
>>>>>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
>>>> <http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>>>> ~->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Richard Liveth Yet!"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email
> design.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1WMplB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

"Richard Liveth Yet!"