Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: John Beaufort

In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:01:20 AM Mountain Standard Time,
stephenmlark@... writes:



--- In _richardiiisocietyforichardiiisocietric_
(mailto:) , "Le Bateman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Was there a John Beaufort Duke of Somerset, who was beheaded in
Richard
> III's reign? If not then who am I thinking of.
>
The only "John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset" was Henry VII's maternal
grandfather and died in 1444, before Richard was born. The only Duke
Richard ever had beheaded was Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham. I
have a few online sources to hand and could possibly help further.
----------------------------------

There were a couple of Beauforts executed in Edward IV's reign, Henry
after the Battle of Hexham, 1464, and Edmund, executed after the Battle
of Tewkesbury in 1471; I believe these two brother had both been Dukes of
Somerset. They had another brother, John Beaufort, who died during the Battle of
Tewkesbury, but I'm not sure what titles, if any, he held.
LML,
Pam










************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

--- In , PamelaJButler@...
wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:01:20 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> stephenmlark@... writes:
>
>
>
> --- In _richardiiisocietyforichardiiisocietric_
> (mailto:) , "Le Bateman"
> <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Was there a John Beaufort Duke of Somerset, who was beheaded in
> Richard
> > III's reign? If not then who am I thinking of.
> >
> The only "John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset" was Henry VII's
maternal
> grandfather and died in 1444, before Richard was born. The only
Duke
> Richard ever had beheaded was Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham.
I
> have a few online sources to hand and could possibly help further.
> ----------------------------------
>
> There were a couple of Beauforts executed in Edward IV's reign,
Henry
> after the Battle of Hexham, 1464, and Edmund, executed after the
Battle
> of Tewkesbury in 1471; I believe these two brother had both been
Dukes of
> Somerset. They had another brother, John Beaufort, who died during
the Battle of
> Tewkesbury, but I'm not sure what titles, if any, he held.
> LML,
> Pam
>
> The John who died at Tewkesbury must be the one Jacob means, even
if it was twelve years before Richard succeeded. The 3rd Duke was
beheaded and left no legitimate son so his brother became the 4th
Duke to die under similar circumstances.
John would have succeeded if his brother had predeceased him although
executions would take place AFTER the battle so he may not have done.
The 4th Duke may have been attainted before the battle meaning that
he had no title to pass on.
Similarly, Henry Beaufort may have been attainted, only for Henry
VI's re-adeption to reverse this in favour of Edmund. Ironically, the
Earls and Marquises of Worcester descend from one of the brothers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com
>
>
>
>

I want to thank yall for answering my questions about Henry and Edmund
Beaufort. How are they related to John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford?
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: John Beaufort


--- In , PamelaJButler@...
wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:01:20 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> stephenmlark@... writes:
>
>
>
> --- In _richardiiisocietyforichardiiisocietric_
> (mailto:) , "Le Bateman"
> <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Was there a John Beaufort Duke of Somerset, who was beheaded in
> Richard
> > III's reign? If not then who am I thinking of.
> >
> The only "John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset" was Henry VII's
maternal
> grandfather and died in 1444, before Richard was born. The only
Duke
> Richard ever had beheaded was Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham.
I
> have a few online sources to hand and could possibly help further.
> ----------------------------------
>
> There were a couple of Beauforts executed in Edward IV's reign,
Henry
> after the Battle of Hexham, 1464, and Edmund, executed after the
Battle
> of Tewkesbury in 1471; I believe these two brother had both been
Dukes of
> Somerset. They had another brother, John Beaufort, who died during
the Battle of
> Tewkesbury, but I'm not sure what titles, if any, he held.
> LML,
> Pam
>
> The John who died at Tewkesbury must be the one Jacob means, even
if it was twelve years before Richard succeeded. The 3rd Duke was
beheaded and left no legitimate son so his brother became the 4th
Duke to die under similar circumstances.
John would have succeeded if his brother had predeceased him although
executions would take place AFTER the battle so he may not have done.
The 4th Duke may have been attainted before the battle meaning that
he had no title to pass on.
Similarly, Henry Beaufort may have been attainted, only for Henry
VI's re-adeption to reverse this in favour of Edmund. Ironically, the
Earls and Marquises of Worcester descend from one of the brothers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com
>
>
>
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

- In , "Le Bateman"
<LeBateman@...> wrote:
>
> I want to thank yall for answering my questions about Henry and
Edmund
> Beaufort. How are they related to John of Gaunt and Katherine
Swynford?

Here goes:
John of Gaunt and Katharine Swynford (de Roet) had four children:

One of these was Joan Beaufort, Richard's maternal grandmother.
Another was John, 1st Earl of Somerset, who had six children,
including:

John, 1st Duke of Somerset, maternal grandfather of Henry VII (two
brothers died without male issue) and
Edmund, 2nd Duke of Somerset, who had issue:

Henry (3rd Duke), Edmund (4th Duke) and John. All three, together
with their father, died in battle between 1455 and 1471 or were
executed afterwards. The 3rd Duke's bastard son (with Joan Hill) was
Charles Somerset, 1st Earl of Worcester, whose line flourishes today
even though the legitimate male Beauforts were extinct by 1471.

Incidentally, the 2nd Duke is chief suspect as biological father of
Edward of Lancaster by Margaret of Anjou.

> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: John Beaufort
>
>
> --- In , PamelaJButler@
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:01:20 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> > stephenmlark@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In _richardiiisocietyforichardiiisocietric_
> > (mailto:) , "Le Bateman"
> > <LeBateman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Was there a John Beaufort Duke of Somerset, who was beheaded in
> > Richard
> > > III's reign? If not then who am I thinking of.
> > >
> > The only "John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset" was Henry VII's
> maternal
> > grandfather and died in 1444, before Richard was born. The only
> Duke
> > Richard ever had beheaded was Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham.
> I
> > have a few online sources to hand and could possibly help
further.
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > There were a couple of Beauforts executed in Edward IV's reign,
> Henry
> > after the Battle of Hexham, 1464, and Edmund, executed after the
> Battle
> > of Tewkesbury in 1471; I believe these two brother had both been
> Dukes of
> > Somerset. They had another brother, John Beaufort, who died during
> the Battle of
> > Tewkesbury, but I'm not sure what titles, if any, he held.
> > LML,
> > Pam
> >
> > The John who died at Tewkesbury must be the one Jacob means, even
> if it was twelve years before Richard succeeded. The 3rd Duke was
> beheaded and left no legitimate son so his brother became the 4th
> Duke to die under similar circumstances.
> John would have succeeded if his brother had predeceased him
although
> executions would take place AFTER the battle so he may not have
done.
> The 4th Duke may have been attainted before the battle meaning that
> he had no title to pass on.
> Similarly, Henry Beaufort may have been attainted, only for Henry
> VI's re-adeption to reverse this in favour of Edmund. Ironically,
the
> Earls and Marquises of Worcester descend from one of the brothers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> - In , "Le Bateman"
> <LeBateman@> wrote:
> >
> > I want to thank yall for answering my questions about Henry and
> Edmund
> > Beaufort. How are they related to John of Gaunt and Katherine
> Swynford?
>
> Here goes:
> John of Gaunt and Katharine Swynford (de Roet) had four children:
>
> One of these was Joan Beaufort, Richard's maternal grandmother.
> Another was John, 1st Earl of Somerset, who had six children,
> including:
>
> John, 1st Duke of Somerset, maternal grandfather of Henry VII (two
> brothers died without male issue) and
> Edmund, 2nd Duke of Somerset, who had issue:
>
> Henry (3rd Duke), Edmund (4th Duke) and John. All three, together
> with their father, died in battle between 1455 and 1471 or were
> executed afterwards. The 3rd Duke's bastard son (with Joan Hill)
was
> Charles Somerset, 1st Earl of Worcester, whose line flourishes
today
> even though the legitimate male Beauforts were extinct by 1471.
>
> Incidentally, the 2nd Duke is chief suspect as biological father of
> Edward of Lancaster by Margaret of Anjou.
>
> > Le
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: John Beaufort
> >
> >
> > --- In , PamelaJButler@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:01:20 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> > > stephenmlark@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In _richardiiisocietyforichardiiisocietric_
> > > (mailto:) , "Le Bateman"
> > > <LeBateman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Was there a John Beaufort Duke of Somerset, who was beheaded
in
> > > Richard
> > > > III's reign? If not then who am I thinking of.
> > > >
> > > The only "John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset" was Henry VII's
> > maternal
> > > grandfather and died in 1444, before Richard was born. The only
> > Duke
> > > Richard ever had beheaded was Henry Stafford, Duke of
Buckingham.
> > I
> > > have a few online sources to hand and could possibly help
> further.
> > > ----------------------------------
> > >
> > > There were a couple of Beauforts executed in Edward IV's reign,
> > Henry
> > > after the Battle of Hexham, 1464, and Edmund, executed after
the
> > Battle
> > > of Tewkesbury in 1471; I believe these two brother had both
been
> > Dukes of
> > > Somerset. They had another brother, John Beaufort, who died
during
> > the Battle of
> > > Tewkesbury, but I'm not sure what titles, if any, he held.
> > > LML,
> > > Pam
> > >
> > > The John who died at Tewkesbury must be the one Jacob means,
even
> > if it was twelve years before Richard succeeded. The 3rd Duke was
> > beheaded and left no legitimate son so his brother became the 4th
> > Duke to die under similar circumstances.
> > John would have succeeded if his brother had predeceased him
> although
> > executions would take place AFTER the battle so he may not have
> done.
> > The 4th Duke may have been attainted before the battle meaning
that
> > he had no title to pass on.
> > Similarly, Henry Beaufort may have been attainted, only for Henry
> > VI's re-adeption to reverse this in favour of Edmund. Ironically,
> the
> > Earls and Marquises of Worcester descend from one of the brothers.
> > >
........ and I forgot to mention that the present Somerset (the
senior Beaufort despite his ancestor's illegitimacy) is now Duke of
Beaufort. He is also the only surviving male line descendant, except
his own descendants) of Edward III, thus he shares Richard's Y-
chromosome.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ************************************** See what's free at
> > http://www.aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>