Richard liveth yet

On the US cable news show, MSNBC, today news/potical commentator Keith
Olberman introduced a segment by nothing that on this day in 1483, the
English Parliament asked the Duke of Gloucester to become King.
thereby creating Richard III.

He proceeded to say, quoting roughly, "You know, the guy who killed
his nephews, had a hunchback and a limp, 'My kingdom for a horse!',
looked like Vincent Price on a bad hair day..."

Then further proceeded to say "Actually there is no evidence he had
anything to do with the death of the boys, who were probably killed on
orders of the guy who later killed Ricard. And there is no evidence
he had any physical deformity at all. And he actually looked more
like Tony Snow."

(Tony Snow is the White House Press Secretary. And he does resemble
Richard, as a matter of fact.)

Blew me away that Richard's coronation date popped up, and that
Olbermann tried to set the record straight.

Katy

--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> On the US cable news show, MSNBC, today news/potical commentator
Keith
> Olberman introduced a segment by nothing that on this day in 1483,
the
> English Parliament asked the Duke of Gloucester to become King.
> thereby creating Richard III.
>
> He proceeded to say, quoting roughly, "You know, the guy who killed
> his nephews, had a hunchback and a limp, 'My kingdom for a horse!',
> looked like Vincent Price on a bad hair day..."
>
> Then further proceeded to say "Actually there is no evidence he had
> anything to do with the death of the boys, who were probably killed
on
> orders of the guy who later killed Ricard. And there is no evidence
> he had any physical deformity at all. And he actually looked more
> like Tony Snow."
>
> (Tony Snow is the White House Press Secretary. And he does resemble
> Richard, as a matter of fact.)
>
> Blew me away that Richard's coronation date popped up, and that
> Olbermann tried to set the record straight.
>
> Katy
>
Could you post a photo, or weblink to a photo, of Tony Snow for
comparison? Thankyou.

oregonkaty wrote:

>On the US cable news show, MSNBC, today news/potical commentator Keith
>Olberman introduced a segment by nothing that on this day in 1483, the
>English Parliament asked the Duke of Gloucester to become King.
>thereby creating Richard III.
>
>He proceeded to say, quoting roughly, "You know, the guy who killed
>his nephews, had a hunchback and a limp, 'My kingdom for a horse!',
>looked like Vincent Price on a bad hair day..."
>
>Then further proceeded to say "Actually there is no evidence he had
>anything to do with the death of the boys, who were probably killed on
>orders of the guy who later killed Ricard. And there is no evidence
>he had any physical deformity at all. And he actually looked more
>like Tony Snow."
>
>(Tony Snow is the White House Press Secretary. And he does resemble
>Richard, as a matter of fact.)
>
>Blew me away that Richard's coronation date popped up, and that
>Olbermann tried to set the record straight.
>
>Katy
>
>

*I saw it! And was it ever a refreshing change. But I don't think Tony
Snow looks anything like how I see Richard. :-)

Gilda

sorry I missed Keith last night! He is one of the
most entertaining shows on tv (to me) -- glad he
mentioned Richard --
Rene'

Katy
> Blew me away that Richard's coronation date popped up, and that
> Olbermann tried to set the record straight.

Stephen:
Could you post a photo, or web link to a photo, of Tony Snow for
comparison? Thank you.

Ann:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/15/the-daily-show-catches-tony-sno
w-lying/

L.P.H.,

Ann

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , oregonkaty
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > On the US cable news show, MSNBC, today news/potical commentator
> Keith
> > Olberman introduced a segment by nothing that on this day in 1483,
> the
> > English Parliament asked the Duke of Gloucester to become King.
> > thereby creating Richard III.
> >
> > He proceeded to say, quoting roughly, "You know, the guy who killed
> > his nephews, had a hunchback and a limp, 'My kingdom for a horse!',
> > looked like Vincent Price on a bad hair day..."
> >
> > Then further proceeded to say "Actually there is no evidence he had
> > anything to do with the death of the boys, who were probably killed
> on
> > orders of the guy who later killed Ricard. And there is no evidence
> > he had any physical deformity at all. And he actually looked more
> > like Tony Snow."
> >
> > (Tony Snow is the White House Press Secretary. And he does resemble
> > Richard, as a matter of fact.)
> >
> > Blew me away that Richard's coronation date popped up, and that
> > Olbermann tried to set the record straight.
> >
> > Katy
> >
> Could you post a photo, or weblink to a photo, of Tony Snow for
> comparison? Thankyou.
>



I am hard put to find one in which he is not grinning, which is when
he looks more like Richard, but here are a few links, and you can look
up others by googling his name.

http://www.nndb.com/people/917/000044785/

http://www.gogomag.com/ts/

Katy

Hmm. He doesn't look like the Richard in my head at all, which is based on the arch-top portrait (http://www.richardiii.net/images/SOA_Richard%20III.jpg). And by that token, the person who most resembles that portrait in my view is (as I've said before) the actor Stuart Townsend (http://himrockgoddess0.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/qotd15.jpg.w560h293.jpg).

oregonkaty <[email protected]> wrote: On the US cable news show, MSNBC, today news/potical commentator Keith
Olberman introduced a segment by nothing that on this day in 1483, the
English Parliament asked the Duke of Gloucester to become King.
thereby creating Richard III.

He proceeded to say, quoting roughly, "You know, the guy who killed
his nephews, had a hunchback and a limp, 'My kingdom for a horse!',
looked like Vincent Price on a bad hair day..."

Then further proceeded to say "Actually there is no evidence he had
anything to do with the death of the boys, who were probably killed on
orders of the guy who later killed Ricard. And there is no evidence
he had any physical deformity at all. And he actually looked more
like Tony Snow."

(Tony Snow is the White House Press Secretary. And he does resemble
Richard, as a matter of fact.)

Blew me away that Richard's coronation date popped up, and that
Olbermann tried to set the record straight.

Katy

I had taped the Countdown (Keith Olbermann's show) I referred to, so
here is the transcript:

"On this date in 1483, the British Houses of Parliament asked the Duke
of Gloucester to become the nation's monarch, and thus did Richard of
York become the infamous King Richard III. You know -- had his
nephews the rightful heirs to the crown murdered, died on the
battlefield crying 'A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!' had a
hump and a limp and he looked a lot like Vincent Price on a really bad
hair day.

"Only, history has been very unkind to Richard. He probably didn't
kill the princes -- they were probably killed on the instructions of
the guy who eventually killed Richard. And there is no evidence that
he had any physical deformity. And he looked less like Vincent Price
and more like Tony Snow."

Katy

Did he actually murder his nephews, or was this the plot of his enemies to
assassination and besmirch his character. As far as him being deformed.
Edmund Crouchback was not deformed either. This was an example of character
assassination by his brother John of Gaunt, who wanted to prove Edmund's
descendants were not fit to rule England.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "oregonkaty" <[email protected]>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Richard liveth yet


I had taped the Countdown (Keith Olbermann's show) I referred to, so
here is the transcript:

"On this date in 1483, the British Houses of Parliament asked the Duke
of Gloucester to become the nation's monarch, and thus did Richard of
York become the infamous King Richard III. You know -- had his
nephews the rightful heirs to the crown murdered, died on the
battlefield crying 'A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!' had a
hump and a limp and he looked a lot like Vincent Price on a really bad
hair day.

"Only, history has been very unkind to Richard. He probably didn't
kill the princes -- they were probably killed on the instructions of
the guy who eventually killed Richard. And there is no evidence that
he had any physical deformity. And he looked less like Vincent Price
and more like Tony Snow."

Katy




Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In , "Le Bateman" <LeBateman@...> wrote:
>
> Did he actually murder his nephews, or was this the plot of his enemies to
> assassination and besmirch his character. As far as him being deformed.
> Edmund Crouchback was not deformed either. This was an example of character
> assassination by his brother John of Gaunt, who wanted to prove Edmund's
> descendants were not fit to rule England.
> Le

Edward has a most beautiful tomb in Westminster Abbey - some say that the name
Crouchback might have referred to the cross on his back to signify he was a crusader.
Eileen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "oregonkaty" <[email protected]>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Richard liveth yet
>
>
> I had taped the Countdown (Keith Olbermann's show) I referred to, so
> here is the transcript:
>
> "On this date in 1483, the British Houses of Parliament asked the Duke
> of Gloucester to become the nation's monarch, and thus did Richard of
> York become the infamous King Richard III. You know -- had his
> nephews the rightful heirs to the crown murdered, died on the
> battlefield crying 'A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!' had a
> hump and a limp and he looked a lot like Vincent Price on a really bad
> hair day.
>
> "Only, history has been very unkind to Richard. He probably didn't
> kill the princes -- they were probably killed on the instructions of
> the guy who eventually killed Richard. And there is no evidence that
> he had any physical deformity. And he looked less like Vincent Price
> and more like Tony Snow."
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

--- In , "Le Bateman"
<LeBateman@...> wrote:
>
> Did he actually murder his nephews, or was this the plot of his
enemies to
> assassination and besmirch his character. As far as him being
deformed.
> Edmund Crouchback was not deformed either. This was an example of
character
> assassination by his brother John of Gaunt, who wanted to prove
Edmund's
> descendants were not fit to rule England.

On the first question, I am 99% certain that he did not and I think
that other forum members think the same way.
As for Edmund Crouchback, he was John of Gaunt's ancestor-in-law,
Gaunt being descended from Edward I who was Crouchback's elder
brother. There are old stories, spread by Henry IV (Gaunt's son) etc.,
that Crouchback was elder than Edward.
However, no serious historian has given them credence and Crouchback
and his line were never deprecated for his alleged shape in the way
that Richard was.
See "The Lancastrian Claim to the throne" (J.Ashdown-Hill, Ricardian
a few years back), which ought to be the world's shortest article!

> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "oregonkaty" <[email protected]>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Richard liveth yet
>
>
> I had taped the Countdown (Keith Olbermann's show) I referred to, so
> here is the transcript:
>
> "On this date in 1483, the British Houses of Parliament asked the
Duke
> of Gloucester to become the nation's monarch, and thus did Richard
of
> York become the infamous King Richard III. You know -- had his
> nephews the rightful heirs to the crown murdered, died on the
> battlefield crying 'A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!' had a
> hump and a limp and he looked a lot like Vincent Price on a really
bad
> hair day.
>
> "Only, history has been very unkind to Richard. He probably didn't
> kill the princes -- they were probably killed on the instructions of
> the guy who eventually killed Richard. And there is no evidence
that
> he had any physical deformity. And he looked less like Vincent
Price
> and more like Tony Snow."
>
> Katy
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "Le Bateman"
> <LeBateman@> wrote:
> >
> > Did he actually murder his nephews, or was this the plot of his
> enemies to
> > assassination and besmirch his character. As far as him being
> deformed.
> > Edmund Crouchback was not deformed either. This was an example of
> character
> > assassination by his brother John of Gaunt, who wanted to prove
> Edmund's
> > descendants were not fit to rule England.
>
> On the first question, I am 99% certain that he did not and I think
> that other forum members think the same way.
> As for Edmund Crouchback, he was John of Gaunt's ancestor-in-law,
> Gaunt being descended from Edward I who was Crouchback's elder
> brother. There are old stories, spread by Henry IV (Gaunt's son)
etc.,
> that Crouchback was elder than Edward.
> However, no serious historian has given them credence and
Crouchback
> and his line were never deprecated for his alleged shape in the way
> that Richard was.
> See "The Lancastrian Claim to the throne" (J.Ashdown-Hill,
Ricardian
> a few years back), which ought to be the world's shortest article!
>
If you like, Jacob, I shall put the "Crouchback" historical and
genealogical information together. Interested?
> > Le
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "oregonkaty" <[email protected]>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: Richard liveth yet
> >
> >
> > I had taped the Countdown (Keith Olbermann's show) I referred to,
so
> > here is the transcript:
> >
> > "On this date in 1483, the British Houses of Parliament asked the
> Duke
> > of Gloucester to become the nation's monarch, and thus did
Richard
> of
> > York become the infamous King Richard III. You know -- had his
> > nephews the rightful heirs to the crown murdered, died on the
> > battlefield crying 'A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!'
had a
> > hump and a limp and he looked a lot like Vincent Price on a
really
> bad
> > hair day.
> >
> > "Only, history has been very unkind to Richard. He probably didn't
> > kill the princes -- they were probably killed on the instructions
of
> > the guy who eventually killed Richard. And there is no evidence
> that
> > he had any physical deformity. And he looked less like Vincent
> Price
> > and more like Tony Snow."
> >
> > Katy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

Pardon me, but I always thought that the "crouchback" refered to
the fact that Edmund had gone on one of the crusades to the Holyland
and was entitled to wear the "cross on his back" which became
corrupted into "crouchback".
And what about one of the twin Beaumont brothers---Robert, who is
usually called "Robert Bossu"? I think the historical jury is still
out on that one as well . . .

"Meek"(what hump?)


As far as him being
> > deformed.
> > > Edmund Crouchback was not deformed either. This was an example
of
> > character
> > > assassination by his brother John of Gaunt, who wanted to prove
> > Edmund's
> > > descendants were not fit to rule England.
> >
> > On the first question, I am 99% certain that he did not and I
think
> > that other forum members think the same way.
> > As for Edmund Crouchback, he was John of Gaunt's ancestor-in-law,
> > Gaunt being descended from Edward I who was Crouchback's elder
> > brother. There are old stories, spread by Henry IV (Gaunt's son)
> etc.,
> > that Crouchback was elder than Edward.
> > However, no serious historian has given them credence and
> Crouchback
> > and his line were never deprecated for his alleged shape in the
way
> > that Richard was.
> > See "The Lancastrian Claim to the throne" (J.Ashdown-Hill,
> Ricardian
> > a few years back), which ought to be the world's shortest article!
> >
> If you like, Jacob, I shall put the "Crouchback" historical and
> genealogical information together. Interested?
> > > Le
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "oregonkaty" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Richard liveth yet
> > >
> > >
> > > I had taped the Countdown (Keith Olbermann's show) I referred
to,
> so
> > > here is the transcript:
> > >
> > > "On this date in 1483, the British Houses of Parliament asked
the
> > Duke
> > > of Gloucester to become the nation's monarch, and thus did
> Richard
> > of
> > > York become the infamous King Richard III. You know -- had his
> > > nephews the rightful heirs to the crown murdered, died on the
> > > battlefield crying 'A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!'
> had a
> > > hump and a limp and he looked a lot like Vincent Price on a
> really
> > bad
> > > hair day.
> > >
> > > "Only, history has been very unkind to Richard. He probably
didn't
> > > kill the princes -- they were probably killed on the
instructions
> of
> > > the guy who eventually killed Richard. And there is no
evidence
> > that
> > > he had any physical deformity. And he looked less like Vincent
> > Price
> > > and more like Tony Snow."
> > >
> > > Katy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
>

--- In , "L. Miller"
<pvtmeek@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Pardon me, but I always thought that the "crouchback" refered to
> the fact that Edmund had gone on one of the crusades to the Holyland
> and was entitled to wear the "cross on his back" which became
> corrupted into "crouchback".
> And what about one of the twin Beaumont brothers---Robert, who is
> usually called "Robert Bossu"? I think the historical jury is still
> out on that one as well . . .
>
> "Meek"(what hump?)
>
>
> As far as him being
> > > deformed.
> > > > Edmund Crouchback was not deformed either. This was an example
> of
> > > character
> > > > assassination by his brother John of Gaunt, who wanted to prove
> > > Edmund's
> > > > descendants were not fit to rule England.
> > >
> > > On the first question, I am 99% certain that he did not and I
> think
> > > that other forum members think the same way.
> > > As for Edmund Crouchback, he was John of Gaunt's ancestor-in-law,
> > > Gaunt being descended from Edward I who was Crouchback's elder
> > > brother. There are old stories, spread by Henry IV (Gaunt's son)
> > etc.,
> > > that Crouchback was elder than Edward.
> > > However, no serious historian has given them credence and
> > Crouchback
> > > and his line were never deprecated for his alleged shape in the
> way
> > > that Richard was.
> > > See "The Lancastrian Claim to the throne" (J.Ashdown-Hill,
> > Ricardian
> > > a few years back), which ought to be the world's shortest article!
> > >
> > If you like, Jacob, I shall put the "Crouchback" historical and
> > genealogical information together. Interested?



I would be interested in knowing when Edmund was first given that
"Crouchback" appellation. I've always been curious about that.

As I recall, most of these colorful descriptives, such as Joan "Fair
Maid of Kent" and Edward "the Black Prince" got tacked on later and
the individuals were not known thusly in their own lifetimes.

Katy