Would you like something more constructive to debate?

Today in 1489, Thomas Cranmer was born. Would the Refermation have
happened the same way, or at all, if Richard had won at Bosworth?

I would like to think that it would not, after all my opinion (please do not shoot me down in flames) is that it was tied up with Henry VIII his macho attitude, lack of son and a dark beauty.

Suppose it would depend who followed Richard although I suppose the views of Luther would have influenced at some time in the future. Richard seemed to be to be a moral, spiritual person although he would I hope have considered other opitions on religious matters, unlike those who followed him. By the way I am not a catholic.

Whats do others think.

Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...> wrote: Today in 1489, Thomas Cranmer was born. Would the Refermation have
happened the same way, or at all, if Richard had won at Bosworth?






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--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Today in 1489, Thomas Cranmer was born. Would the Refermation have
> happened the same way, or at all, if Richard had won at Bosworth?



Another what-if that has always intrigued me :

Before Christopher Columbus approached Ferdinand and Isabella in 1490
for financing for his expedition to find a shortcut to the East, his
brother had an appointment with Henry VII to ask his backing for the
voyage.

Tudor did not keep the appointment, and he had, there is no reason to
think he would have put up the money.

But Richard was interested in learning. Would he have backed the
endeavor?

Because if he had, the "river of gold" from the Americas might have
flowed to England, not Spain, and wouldn't that have changed history.

Katy

Because if he had, the "river of gold" from the Americas might have
flowed to England, not Spain, and wouldn't that have changed history.

Katy

Of course, as the daughter of a Spanish father, I can't complain too
much about where the river was directed. However, I do know this much:
that a big portion of that flow soaked the pockets of Charles V, who was
much more of a Hapsburg than he was Trastamara, and Spain didn't benefit
from it nearly as fully as it probably would have had Juan, son of the
Catholic Kings survived, or Miguel, the infant son of their eldest
daughter Isabel (or for that matter, perhaps, if the Comuneros had
succeeded in tossing Charles out of the peninsula and re-instating his
mother Juana?).

Maria
elena@...

--- In , marion cheatham
<marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to think that it would not, after all my opinion
(please do not shoot me down in flames) is that it was tied up with
Henry VIII his macho attitude, lack of son and a dark beauty.
>
> Suppose it would depend who followed Richard although I suppose the
views of Luther would have influenced at some time in the future.
Richard seemed to be to be a moral, spiritual person although he
would I hope have considered other opitions on religious matters,
unlike those who followed him. By the way I am not a catholic.
>
What do others think.
>
Yes, we are back to the old question of who would have succeeded
Richard, how and when he would have died, whether he would have been
able to re-marry and have more children - to determine the answer to
this Reformation question.

> Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
wrote: Today in 1489, Thomas Cranmer
was born. Would the Refermation have
> happened the same way, or at all, if Richard had won at Bosworth?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
>
>

The way the English Reformation developed was very much dependent on
the particular circumstances of Henry VIII and the beliefs of his
three children. Whoever had been on the throne from the 1520s
onwards, there would have been pressure for reform, with the views of
Luther and Calvin gaining followers, but the attitude of the monarch
would have been crucial in determining whether or not the established
church of England remained a part of the Roman Catholic hierarchy or
went its own way. The French experience whereby the Huguenots
eventually failed to change the establishment there, despite one of
their number ascending to the throne as Henri IV ("Paris is worth a
Mass") suggests that a similar scenario might have evolved in
England.

When even someone as money-grabbing as Henry VII did not try and take
the monastic lands, it is unlikely that any other monarch would have
done so either, except in the unusual combination of circumstances
that evolved under Henry VIII. Indeed, had Catherine of Aragon
produced a number of healthy male children, even he might not have
done so.

Richard G


--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Today in 1489, Thomas Cranmer was born. Would the Reformation have
> happened the same way, or at all, if Richard had won at Bosworth?
>

Since Thomas Wiatt the Poet was said to have also had a hand in the
English Reformation, would be easy to say, if he had not would there be no
Reformation in England.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: Would you like something more
constructive to debate?


--- In , marion cheatham
<marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to think that it would not, after all my opinion
(please do not shoot me down in flames) is that it was tied up with
Henry VIII his macho attitude, lack of son and a dark beauty.
>
> Suppose it would depend who followed Richard although I suppose the
views of Luther would have influenced at some time in the future.
Richard seemed to be to be a moral, spiritual person although he
would I hope have considered other opitions on religious matters,
unlike those who followed him. By the way I am not a catholic.
>
What do others think.
>
Yes, we are back to the old question of who would have succeeded
Richard, how and when he would have died, whether he would have been
able to re-marry and have more children - to determine the answer to
this Reformation question.

> Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
wrote: Today in 1489, Thomas Cranmer
was born. Would the Refermation have
> happened the same way, or at all, if Richard had won at Bosworth?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
>
>





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