Re: Elizabeth Waytt
Re: Elizabeth Waytt
2007-07-20 02:54:44
Dear Group
Did the author of the source, this Elizabeth's is mention in misspell
her name? I have an example my 8thgreatgrandmother Rebecca Wiatt's name is
spelled in at least two records as Rebecca Wait in Colonial North Carolina.
This Rebecca was Rebecca Kent d.b.1662 and she died in December of 1728.
This is why I though this Elizabeth was a Wyatt. Sorry to get off topic. Is
it possible that the Richard who died in 1499 was actually Richard IV.
Wasn't he the one the King of France recognized as Richard IV. It is said
his brother died of an illness. Did they have offspring as Douglas
Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry suggests? Cicely Neville is my
17thgrandaunt.
Le
Did the author of the source, this Elizabeth's is mention in misspell
her name? I have an example my 8thgreatgrandmother Rebecca Wiatt's name is
spelled in at least two records as Rebecca Wait in Colonial North Carolina.
This Rebecca was Rebecca Kent d.b.1662 and she died in December of 1728.
This is why I though this Elizabeth was a Wyatt. Sorry to get off topic. Is
it possible that the Richard who died in 1499 was actually Richard IV.
Wasn't he the one the King of France recognized as Richard IV. It is said
his brother died of an illness. Did they have offspring as Douglas
Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry suggests? Cicely Neville is my
17thgrandaunt.
Le
Re: Elizabeth Waytt
2007-07-20 10:50:17
--- In , "Le Bateman"
<LeBateman@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Group
> Did the author of the source, this Elizabeth's is mention in
misspell
> her name? I have an example my 8thgreatgrandmother Rebecca Wiatt's
name is
> spelled in at least two records as Rebecca Wait in Colonial North
Carolina.
> This Rebecca was Rebecca Kent d.b.1662 and she died in December of
1728.
> This is why I though this Elizabeth was a Wyatt. Sorry to get off
topic. Is
> it possible that the Richard who died in 1499 was actually Richard
IV.
> Wasn't he the one the King of France recognized as Richard IV. It
is said
> his brother died of an illness. Did they have offspring as Douglas
> Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry suggests? Cicely Neville is my
> 17thgrandaunt.
> Le
>
You have raised a number of interesting points here:
1) Elizabeth (?) Waite/Wayte has been recorded as Edward
IV's "Elusive Mistress" in a Ricardian article about ten years ago (I
shall confirm the issue). Very little is known about her except that
she was married and that her other surname was Lucy. Tudor spin
doctors tried to insert her as the lady of the pre-contract, whom we
know to be Lady Eleanor Butler/ Talbot.
2) Elizabeth (?) Wayte/ Wayte seems to have had two children. One was
Arthur Waite, Viscount Lisle, who died in about 1542 after being
acquitted of treason and was the ancestor of General Monck. The other
was another Elizabeth (?) who seems to have married Lord Lumley and
her descendants would include the Earl of Scarborough (commander at
Sedgemoor 1685) and the Earl of Harewood (married George V's daughter
c.1922). I am working on the Lumleys at present, tracing an important
dispensation.
3) A mystery youth was executed in 1499. Henry VII had it put out
that he was "Perkin Warbeck" but he claimed to be Richard of
Shrewsbury - this was quite plausible. Shrewsbury was Edward IV's
second son by his bigamous marriage, thus Edward V's younger brother
and, having been re-legitimised by Henry's Titulus Regius, would have
been "Richard IV" had he surfaced as "Warbeck" or the Eastwell
bricklayer.
4) Yes, the former Edward V was known to be ill and most probably
died of natural causes in 1483/4. However, he and his brother are
quite distinct from the Elusive Mistress's children, as shown above.
5) I have not seen much of Douglas Richardson's "Plantagenet
Ancestry" but Edward V had no offspring. If Shrewsbury died in 1483
that he didn't either. If he was the mystery youth "Perkin Warbeck"
then he is thought to have had a child (see Wroe), raised anonymously
in South Wales where Perkins is a popular surname. The Eastwell
bricklayer may or may not have had children - please wait until I
have borrowed and read Baldwin.
6) I do know that Richardson postulates a daughter, and a line to the
present day, for another Richard (de la Pole) who was the brother of
the Earl of Lincoln and died in battle in Pavia (1525).
7) I am also aware that some posters doubt the conclusions of "The
Elusive Mistress" but that would confuse things even further!
8) So you are descended from a brother/sister of Cicely? Very
interesting - I shall have to inquire further soon.
<LeBateman@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Group
> Did the author of the source, this Elizabeth's is mention in
misspell
> her name? I have an example my 8thgreatgrandmother Rebecca Wiatt's
name is
> spelled in at least two records as Rebecca Wait in Colonial North
Carolina.
> This Rebecca was Rebecca Kent d.b.1662 and she died in December of
1728.
> This is why I though this Elizabeth was a Wyatt. Sorry to get off
topic. Is
> it possible that the Richard who died in 1499 was actually Richard
IV.
> Wasn't he the one the King of France recognized as Richard IV. It
is said
> his brother died of an illness. Did they have offspring as Douglas
> Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry suggests? Cicely Neville is my
> 17thgrandaunt.
> Le
>
You have raised a number of interesting points here:
1) Elizabeth (?) Waite/Wayte has been recorded as Edward
IV's "Elusive Mistress" in a Ricardian article about ten years ago (I
shall confirm the issue). Very little is known about her except that
she was married and that her other surname was Lucy. Tudor spin
doctors tried to insert her as the lady of the pre-contract, whom we
know to be Lady Eleanor Butler/ Talbot.
2) Elizabeth (?) Wayte/ Wayte seems to have had two children. One was
Arthur Waite, Viscount Lisle, who died in about 1542 after being
acquitted of treason and was the ancestor of General Monck. The other
was another Elizabeth (?) who seems to have married Lord Lumley and
her descendants would include the Earl of Scarborough (commander at
Sedgemoor 1685) and the Earl of Harewood (married George V's daughter
c.1922). I am working on the Lumleys at present, tracing an important
dispensation.
3) A mystery youth was executed in 1499. Henry VII had it put out
that he was "Perkin Warbeck" but he claimed to be Richard of
Shrewsbury - this was quite plausible. Shrewsbury was Edward IV's
second son by his bigamous marriage, thus Edward V's younger brother
and, having been re-legitimised by Henry's Titulus Regius, would have
been "Richard IV" had he surfaced as "Warbeck" or the Eastwell
bricklayer.
4) Yes, the former Edward V was known to be ill and most probably
died of natural causes in 1483/4. However, he and his brother are
quite distinct from the Elusive Mistress's children, as shown above.
5) I have not seen much of Douglas Richardson's "Plantagenet
Ancestry" but Edward V had no offspring. If Shrewsbury died in 1483
that he didn't either. If he was the mystery youth "Perkin Warbeck"
then he is thought to have had a child (see Wroe), raised anonymously
in South Wales where Perkins is a popular surname. The Eastwell
bricklayer may or may not have had children - please wait until I
have borrowed and read Baldwin.
6) I do know that Richardson postulates a daughter, and a line to the
present day, for another Richard (de la Pole) who was the brother of
the Earl of Lincoln and died in battle in Pavia (1525).
7) I am also aware that some posters doubt the conclusions of "The
Elusive Mistress" but that would confuse things even further!
8) So you are descended from a brother/sister of Cicely? Very
interesting - I shall have to inquire further soon.
Richard III to world: I am not Voldemort!
2007-07-20 12:53:31
Dear all,
A couple weeks ago, I stumbled on a link to an
academic journal with an article positing the
hypothesis that J. K. Rowling based the Voldemort
character on Richard III. It piqued my sense of the
bizarre, so with the permission of some folks in the
Society I did a little press release expressing
dismay.
Alas, the press of "day job" work has not made it
possible for me to push this out to the media in a
timely fashion -- also, I was hoping I might hear
about the Ricardian's grandson's encounter with JKR
before the book was released. So I'm hoping for a
little "viral marketing" -- meaning if enough folks
e-mail about it and post about it it just may reach an
editor or two looking for a unique angle on the Harry
Potter frenzy.
You may be able to pass along the link, or you may
simply enjoy reading it.
http://r3member.blogspot.com/2007/07/richard-iii-as-inspiration-for-you-know.html
(If that link is too long for your e-mail program,
just go to http://r3member.blogspot.com/ )
A couple weeks ago, I stumbled on a link to an
academic journal with an article positing the
hypothesis that J. K. Rowling based the Voldemort
character on Richard III. It piqued my sense of the
bizarre, so with the permission of some folks in the
Society I did a little press release expressing
dismay.
Alas, the press of "day job" work has not made it
possible for me to push this out to the media in a
timely fashion -- also, I was hoping I might hear
about the Ricardian's grandson's encounter with JKR
before the book was released. So I'm hoping for a
little "viral marketing" -- meaning if enough folks
e-mail about it and post about it it just may reach an
editor or two looking for a unique angle on the Harry
Potter frenzy.
You may be able to pass along the link, or you may
simply enjoy reading it.
http://r3member.blogspot.com/2007/07/richard-iii-as-inspiration-for-you-know.html
(If that link is too long for your e-mail program,
just go to http://r3member.blogspot.com/ )
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Richard III to world: I am not Vold
2007-07-20 23:45:40
Oh dear. As terrible as this is, I kind of have to laugh.
On an unrelated note, has anyone here heard of Richard Lawrence, who in 1830 attempted to assassinate Andrew Jackson under the delusion that Lawrence himself was Richard III and that Jackson owed him money and had refused to return him to his throne?
It's stories like these that make the Richard in my head rub his temples and comment about not having time for this.
Laura Blanchard <lblanchard@...> wrote:
Dear all,
A couple weeks ago, I stumbled on a link to an
academic journal with an article positing the
hypothesis that J. K. Rowling based the Voldemort
character on Richard III. It piqued my sense of the
bizarre, so with the permission of some folks in the
Society I did a little press release expressing
dismay.
Alas, the press of "day job" work has not made it
possible for me to push this out to the media in a
timely fashion -- also, I was hoping I might hear
about the Ricardian's grandson's encounter with JKR
before the book was released. So I'm hoping for a
little "viral marketing" -- meaning if enough folks
e-mail about it and post about it it just may reach an
editor or two looking for a unique angle on the Harry
Potter frenzy.
You may be able to pass along the link, or you may
simply enjoy reading it.
http://r3member.blogspot.com/2007/07/richard-iii-as-inspiration-for-you-know.html
(If that link is too long for your e-mail program,
just go to http://r3member.blogspot.com/ )
On an unrelated note, has anyone here heard of Richard Lawrence, who in 1830 attempted to assassinate Andrew Jackson under the delusion that Lawrence himself was Richard III and that Jackson owed him money and had refused to return him to his throne?
It's stories like these that make the Richard in my head rub his temples and comment about not having time for this.
Laura Blanchard <lblanchard@...> wrote:
Dear all,
A couple weeks ago, I stumbled on a link to an
academic journal with an article positing the
hypothesis that J. K. Rowling based the Voldemort
character on Richard III. It piqued my sense of the
bizarre, so with the permission of some folks in the
Society I did a little press release expressing
dismay.
Alas, the press of "day job" work has not made it
possible for me to push this out to the media in a
timely fashion -- also, I was hoping I might hear
about the Ricardian's grandson's encounter with JKR
before the book was released. So I'm hoping for a
little "viral marketing" -- meaning if enough folks
e-mail about it and post about it it just may reach an
editor or two looking for a unique angle on the Harry
Potter frenzy.
You may be able to pass along the link, or you may
simply enjoy reading it.
http://r3member.blogspot.com/2007/07/richard-iii-as-inspiration-for-you-know.html
(If that link is too long for your e-mail program,
just go to http://r3member.blogspot.com/ )
Richard III on Amazon
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