Watch this space! (was Message for Bill and Roslyn)

There has been another dramatic development today. I have exchanged e-
mail with, and spoken to, Count de Loriol Chandieu and learned quite a
few new things, including the sources he has used to trace his ancestry.

As you will doubtless recall, Lord Richard de la Pole appears to have
fathered a daughter Marguerite (the Elder) in exile although he seems
not to have married, dying at Pavia in 1525. She married and had six
children, two of the sons dying in battle in 1567 and 1590.

One of her daughters, Leonore, was the ancestress of the de Buade
family, including the Comte de Frontenac, which may be in existence
today. Marguerite the Younger, another daughter, was the ancestress of
a proven current line of whom Chandieu is a senior member.

I still await the Cahiers de Saint Louis extract and Frontenac
biography and, with today's information, intend to tackle the de Buade
branch and to establish the order in which Marguerite the Elder's
children were born, thereby determining Elizabeth of Suffolk's heir.

I could already have found him, of course, just two and a half miles
from the Tower beneath which the last de la Pole Earl of Suffolk fell
and which Lord Richard fled to avoid.

The full first article (there seems not to be room in the December/
March Bulletins) WILL be placed on this Forum unless it migrates to the
website first.

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> There has been another dramatic development today. I have exchanged
e-
> mail with, and spoken to, Count de Loriol Chandieu and learned
quite a
> few new things, including the sources he has used to trace his
ancestry.
>
> As you will doubtless recall, Lord Richard de la Pole appears to
have
> fathered a daughter Marguerite (the Elder) in exile although he
seems
> not to have married, dying at Pavia in 1525. She married and had
six
> children, two of the sons dying in battle in 1567 and 1590.
>
> One of her daughters, Leonore, was the ancestress of the de Buade
> family, including the Comte de Frontenac, which may be in existence
> today. Marguerite the Younger, another daughter, was the ancestress
of
> a proven current line of whom Chandieu is a senior member.
>
> I still await the Cahiers de Saint Louis extract and Frontenac
> biography and, with today's information, intend to tackle the de
Buade
> branch and to establish the order in which Marguerite the Elder's
> children were born, thereby determining Elizabeth of Suffolk's
heir.
>
> I could already have found him, of course, just two and a half
miles
> from the Tower beneath which the last de la Pole Earl of Suffolk
fell
> and which Lord Richard fled to avoid.
>
> The full first article (there seems not to be room in the December/
> March Bulletins) WILL be placed on this Forum unless it migrates to
the
> website first.
>
More news:

Leonore, from her descendants, seems to have been a few years older
than Marguerite the Younger, her sister. Her descendants, apart from
Frontenac, include Amiral (Godefroy) d'Estrades and (Charles de
Secondat) de Montesquieu.

Furthermore, I have a confirmed line from Montesquieu to five
brothers, the last of whom died in 1901 - indeed there is a Pierre
Jean de Secondat de Montesquieu (b.1946) in Versailles.

Although my Cahiers extract has yet to arrive, I am reading Eccles'
biography of Frontenac - who seems to have been something of a
troublemaker.

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> There has been another dramatic development today. I have exchanged
e-
> mail with, and spoken to, Count de Loriol Chandieu and learned
quite a
> few new things, including the sources he has used to trace his
ancestry.
>
> As you will doubtless recall, Lord Richard de la Pole appears to
have
> fathered a daughter Marguerite (the Elder) in exile although he
seems
> not to have married, dying at Pavia in 1525. She married and had
six
> children, two of the sons dying in battle in 1567 and 1590.
>
> One of her daughters, Leonore, was the ancestress of the de Buade
> family, including the Comte de Frontenac, which may be in existence
> today. Marguerite the Younger, another daughter, was the ancestress
of
> a proven current line of whom Chandieu is a senior member.
>
> I still await the Cahiers de Saint Louis extract and Frontenac
> biography and, with today's information, intend to tackle the de
Buade
> branch and to establish the order in which Marguerite the Elder's
> children were born, thereby determining Elizabeth of Suffolk's
heir.
>
> I could already have found him, of course, just two and a half
miles
> from the Tower beneath which the last de la Pole Earl of Suffolk
fell
> and which Lord Richard fled to avoid.
>
> The full first article (there seems not to be room in the December/
> March Bulletins) WILL be placed on this Forum unless it migrates to
the
> website first.
>
Apart from his legendary "Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal", Henri
de Ruvigny also wrote "Some Royal Descents" which the British Library
describes as "supplementary genealogical tables" to the Roll. It was
privately printed on one side of the paper only.

Has anyone seen this and is it a book or a manuscript? He did plan to
write a Suffolk volume but didn't deliver because of death, funds or
lack of evidence. The idea that he may have left some "work in
progress" was suggested to me last year - is this it and does it
mention Lord Richard's line?

The excerpts have finally turned up, after several months' wait.
There is no mention of Lord Richard having a daughter. Evidently, I
need to ask Leo why he thought the Cahiers did suggest it, or
consult the French records.

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <stephenmlark@> wrote:
> >
> > There has been another dramatic development today. I have
exchanged
> e-
> > mail with, and spoken to, Count de Loriol Chandieu and learned
> quite a
> > few new things, including the sources he has used to trace his
> ancestry.
> >
> > As you will doubtless recall, Lord Richard de la Pole appears to
> have
> > fathered a daughter Marguerite (the Elder) in exile although he
> seems
> > not to have married, dying at Pavia in 1525. She married and had
> six
> > children, two of the sons dying in battle in 1567 and 1590.
> >
> > One of her daughters, Leonore, was the ancestress of the de
Buade
> > family, including the Comte de Frontenac, which may be in
existence
> > today. Marguerite the Younger, another daughter, was the
ancestress
> of
> > a proven current line of whom Chandieu is a senior member.
> >
> > I still await the Cahiers de Saint Louis extract and Frontenac
> > biography and, with today's information, intend to tackle the de
> Buade
> > branch and to establish the order in which Marguerite the
Elder's
> > children were born, thereby determining Elizabeth of Suffolk's
> heir.
> >
> > I could already have found him, of course, just two and a half
> miles
> > from the Tower beneath which the last de la Pole Earl of Suffolk
> fell
> > and which Lord Richard fled to avoid.
> >
> > The full first article (there seems not to be room in the
December/
> > March Bulletins) WILL be placed on this Forum unless it migrates
to
> the
> > website first.
> >
> More news:
>
> Leonore, from her descendants, seems to have been a few years
older
> than Marguerite the Younger, her sister. Her descendants, apart
from
> Frontenac, include Amiral (Godefroy) d'Estrades and (Charles de
> Secondat) de Montesquieu.
>
> Furthermore, I have a confirmed line from Montesquieu to five
> brothers, the last of whom died in 1901 - indeed there is a Pierre
> Jean de Secondat de Montesquieu (b.1946) in Versailles.
>
> Although my Cahiers extract has yet to arrive, I am reading
Eccles'
> biography of Frontenac - who seems to have been something of a
> troublemaker.
>

Now I think I know where Lord Richard is buried: The Basilica of San Pietro in Ciel d'Oro ("St. Peter in Golden Sky"), Pavia, Lombardy. He is mitochondrially identical to his maternal uncle and his remains should be undisturbed.
Marguerite was widowed in c.1562 and lived to 1599 by when her employer's son had become Henri IV. She could be buried in a Brenieu family vault in the provinces or somewhere like Notre Dame. The latter would be bad news as the early part of the Revolution saw many monarchs and nobles disinterred and vandalised.

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> The excerpts have finally turned up, after several months' wait.
> There is no mention of Lord Richard having a daughter. Evidently, I
> need to ask Leo why he thought the Cahiers did suggest it, or
> consult the French records.
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> <stephenmlark@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , "Stephen Lark"
> > <stephenmlark@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There has been another dramatic development today. I have
> exchanged
> > e-
> > > mail with, and spoken to, Count de Loriol Chandieu and learned
> > quite a
> > > few new things, including the sources he has used to trace his
> > ancestry.
> > >
> > > As you will doubtless recall, Lord Richard de la Pole appears to
> > have
> > > fathered a daughter Marguerite (the Elder) in exile although he
> > seems
> > > not to have married, dying at Pavia in 1525. She married and had
> > six
> > > children, two of the sons dying in battle in 1567 and 1590.
> > >
> > > One of her daughters, Leonore, was the ancestress of the de
> Buade
> > > family, including the Comte de Frontenac, which may be in
> existence
> > > today. Marguerite the Younger, another daughter, was the
> ancestress
> > of
> > > a proven current line of whom Chandieu is a senior member.
> > >
> > > I still await the Cahiers de Saint Louis extract and Frontenac
> > > biography and, with today's information, intend to tackle the de
> > Buade
> > > branch and to establish the order in which Marguerite the
> Elder's
> > > children were born, thereby determining Elizabeth of Suffolk's
> > heir.
> > >
> > > I could already have found him, of course, just two and a half
> > miles
> > > from the Tower beneath which the last de la Pole Earl of Suffolk
> > fell
> > > and which Lord Richard fled to avoid.
> > >
> > > The full first article (there seems not to be room in the
> December/
> > > March Bulletins) WILL be placed on this Forum unless it migrates
> to
> > the
> > > website first.
> > >
> > More news:
> >
> > Leonore, from her descendants, seems to have been a few years
> older
> > than Marguerite the Younger, her sister. Her descendants, apart
> from
> > Frontenac, include Amiral (Godefroy) d'Estrades and (Charles de
> > Secondat) de Montesquieu.
> >
> > Furthermore, I have a confirmed line from Montesquieu to five
> > brothers, the last of whom died in 1901 - indeed there is a Pierre
> > Jean de Secondat de Montesquieu (b.1946) in Versailles.
> >
> > Although my Cahiers extract has yet to arrive, I am reading
> Eccles'
> > biography of Frontenac - who seems to have been something of a
> > troublemaker.
> >
>

http://www.frontenac-ameriques.org/


--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> There has been another dramatic development today. I have exchanged e-
> mail with, and spoken to, Count de Loriol Chandieu and learned quite a
> few new things, including the sources he has used to trace his ancestry.
>
> As you will doubtless recall, Lord Richard de la Pole appears to have
> fathered a daughter Marguerite (the Elder) in exile although he seems
> not to have married, dying at Pavia in 1525. She married and had six
> children, two of the sons dying in battle in 1567 and 1590.
>
> One of her daughters, Leonore, was the ancestress of the de Buade
> family, including the Comte de Frontenac, which may be in existence
> today. Marguerite the Younger, another daughter, was the ancestress of
> a proven current line of whom Chandieu is a senior member.
>
> I still await the Cahiers de Saint Louis extract and Frontenac
> biography and, with today's information, intend to tackle the de Buade
> branch and to establish the order in which Marguerite the Elder's
> children were born, thereby determining Elizabeth of Suffolk's heir.
>
> I could already have found him, of course, just two and a half miles
> from the Tower beneath which the last de la Pole Earl of Suffolk fell
> and which Lord Richard fled to avoid.
>
> The full first article (there seems not to be room in the December/
> March Bulletins) WILL be placed on this Forum unless it migrates to the
> website first.
>