Woodvilles
Woodvilles
2002-08-20 19:56:55
What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
survive into Tudor times?
survive into Tudor times?
Re: Woodvilles
2002-08-21 15:55:40
--- In @y..., "lht1187" <lht1187@y...> wrote:
> What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
> survive into Tudor times?
Most of the surviving Wydeville's died of natural causes during Henry
VII's reign. Elizabeth last surviving brother Richard 3rd Earl
Rivers died without issue in the 1490's leaving the bulk of his
property to his nephew Thomas Grey Marquess of Dorset. Only
Catherine Wydeville Duchess of Buckingham survived her elder sister -
she was married secondly to Japer Duke of Bedford and remarried again
after his death.
> What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
> survive into Tudor times?
Most of the surviving Wydeville's died of natural causes during Henry
VII's reign. Elizabeth last surviving brother Richard 3rd Earl
Rivers died without issue in the 1490's leaving the bulk of his
property to his nephew Thomas Grey Marquess of Dorset. Only
Catherine Wydeville Duchess of Buckingham survived her elder sister -
she was married secondly to Japer Duke of Bedford and remarried again
after his death.
Re: Woodvilles
2002-08-22 14:33:58
--- In @y..., tmc_dale <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> --- In @y..., "lht1187" <lht1187@y...> wrote:
> > What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
> > survive into Tudor times?
>
Geoffrey Richardson (or is it Robertson?) has written a history of
the Woodvilles so you should be able to find all the answers to your
questions in there. I think it's called The Popinjays.
> --- In @y..., "lht1187" <lht1187@y...> wrote:
> > What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
> > survive into Tudor times?
>
Geoffrey Richardson (or is it Robertson?) has written a history of
the Woodvilles so you should be able to find all the answers to your
questions in there. I think it's called The Popinjays.
Re: Woodvilles
2002-08-28 11:54:38
--- In @y..., "lht1187" <lht1187@y...> wrote:
> What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
> survive into Tudor times?
There is also a brand new book available on Elizabeth Woodville by
David Baldwin.
> What became of them after Richard III's reign? Did any of them
> survive into Tudor times?
There is also a brand new book available on Elizabeth Woodville by
David Baldwin.
Woodvilles
2006-06-01 15:59:28
>Roslyn wrote:
>gotta wonder if momma may have had a hand in
>"doctoring" anne. remember, woodville and her mother
>were accused of sorcery. this would also
>indicate they knew their herbs, both healing and
>disabilitating effects.
Didn't Clarence arrest and execute Ankarette Twynho (sp?) because he believed she poisoned Isobel? Playing devil's advocate, I read somewhere that Ankarette had once been in the household of Elizabeth Woodville, which would give our George at least some semblance of a basis for his claim. If the Woodvilles were indeed a vengeful bunch, one can see them wanting to get back at George for the execution of Rivers and his son (I forget which one) in 1469, and the Readeption of Henry VI.
LML,
-MargaretA
>gotta wonder if momma may have had a hand in
>"doctoring" anne. remember, woodville and her mother
>were accused of sorcery. this would also
>indicate they knew their herbs, both healing and
>disabilitating effects.
Didn't Clarence arrest and execute Ankarette Twynho (sp?) because he believed she poisoned Isobel? Playing devil's advocate, I read somewhere that Ankarette had once been in the household of Elizabeth Woodville, which would give our George at least some semblance of a basis for his claim. If the Woodvilles were indeed a vengeful bunch, one can see them wanting to get back at George for the execution of Rivers and his son (I forget which one) in 1469, and the Readeption of Henry VI.
LML,
-MargaretA
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Woodvilles
2006-06-01 16:29:14
the son was john, he married the elderly duchess of norfolk. the deaths of rivers and his son occurred during warwick's rebellion to put h6 back on the throne.
i'm being lazy here, but e4 was out hunting with an irish/english lord, desmond, i think...e4 asked this lord what he thought of woodville. the fellow replied she was beautiful, but e4 could have done better, as in bloodlines. holinshed goes into significant detail regarding this event.
e4 told woodville. she was not amused, and within a few years the fellow was accused of treason and executed.
holinshed also gets quite detailed regarding woodville's mother, the duchess of bedford.
a wealthy london merchant, again i'm being lazy, but i think it was thomas cooke. he had a beautiful wall hanging with lots of gold thread/brocade. momma wanted the artwork. he wouldn't give it or sell it to her.
therefore, the woodvilles had this man arrested on trumped up charges. while jailed they ransacked his home, pillaging and plundering to the tune of at least 10, 000 pounds damage/theft. that was a lot of money in those days!
there are other minor incidents listed in the chronicle. but these two stick out the most in my mind.
holinshed is not a woodville fan, or he's reporting the facts as he knew them to be. he cites other historians frequently as his source/s. he also appears to be doing his own research/recording of events.
holinshed, thus far is one of the more enjoyable/informative reads i've had regarding this era.
roslyn
Margaret Anderson <megander@...> wrote:
>Roslyn wrote:
>gotta wonder if momma may have had a hand in
>"doctoring" anne. remember, woodville and her mother
>were accused of sorcery. this would also
>indicate they knew their herbs, both healing and
>disabilitating effects.
Didn't Clarence arrest and execute Ankarette Twynho (sp?) because he believed she poisoned Isobel? Playing devil's advocate, I read somewhere that Ankarette had once been in the household of Elizabeth Woodville, which would give our George at least some semblance of a basis for his claim. If the Woodvilles were indeed a vengeful bunch, one can see them wanting to get back at George for the execution of Rivers and his son (I forget which one) in 1469, and the Readeption of Henry VI.
LML,
-MargaretA
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i'm being lazy here, but e4 was out hunting with an irish/english lord, desmond, i think...e4 asked this lord what he thought of woodville. the fellow replied she was beautiful, but e4 could have done better, as in bloodlines. holinshed goes into significant detail regarding this event.
e4 told woodville. she was not amused, and within a few years the fellow was accused of treason and executed.
holinshed also gets quite detailed regarding woodville's mother, the duchess of bedford.
a wealthy london merchant, again i'm being lazy, but i think it was thomas cooke. he had a beautiful wall hanging with lots of gold thread/brocade. momma wanted the artwork. he wouldn't give it or sell it to her.
therefore, the woodvilles had this man arrested on trumped up charges. while jailed they ransacked his home, pillaging and plundering to the tune of at least 10, 000 pounds damage/theft. that was a lot of money in those days!
there are other minor incidents listed in the chronicle. but these two stick out the most in my mind.
holinshed is not a woodville fan, or he's reporting the facts as he knew them to be. he cites other historians frequently as his source/s. he also appears to be doing his own research/recording of events.
holinshed, thus far is one of the more enjoyable/informative reads i've had regarding this era.
roslyn
Margaret Anderson <megander@...> wrote:
>Roslyn wrote:
>gotta wonder if momma may have had a hand in
>"doctoring" anne. remember, woodville and her mother
>were accused of sorcery. this would also
>indicate they knew their herbs, both healing and
>disabilitating effects.
Didn't Clarence arrest and execute Ankarette Twynho (sp?) because he believed she poisoned Isobel? Playing devil's advocate, I read somewhere that Ankarette had once been in the household of Elizabeth Woodville, which would give our George at least some semblance of a basis for his claim. If the Woodvilles were indeed a vengeful bunch, one can see them wanting to get back at George for the execution of Rivers and his son (I forget which one) in 1469, and the Readeption of Henry VI.
LML,
-MargaretA
SPONSORED LINKS
Richard iii United kingdom United kingdom flower delivery United kingdom phone United kingdom phone card United kingdom travel
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Woodvilles
2006-06-03 20:25:19
--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> the son was john, he married the elderly duchess of norfolk. the
deaths of rivers and his son occurred during warwick's rebellion to
put h6 back on the throne.
>
> i'm being lazy here, but e4 was out hunting with an irish/english
lord, desmond, i think...e4 asked this lord what he thought of
woodville. the fellow replied she was beautiful, but e4 could have
done better, as in bloodlines. holinshed goes into significant detail
regarding this event.
>
> e4 told woodville. she was not amused, and within a few years the
fellow was accused of treason and executed.
>
> holinshed also gets quite detailed regarding woodville's mother,
the duchess of bedford.
>
> a wealthy london merchant, again i'm being lazy, but i think it
was thomas cooke. he had a beautiful wall hanging with lots of gold
thread/brocade. momma wanted the artwork. he wouldn't give it or sell
it to her.
>
> therefore, the woodvilles had this man arrested on trumped up
charges. while jailed they ransacked his home, pillaging and
plundering to the tune of at least 10, 000 pounds damage/theft. that
was a lot of money in those days!
It was Thomas Cooke. He was indeed tried for treason, and convicted
of misprision only. The story of the Woodvilles' ransacking comes
ultimately from Fabyan's chronicle. Fabyan, a draper like Cooke, had
actually been Cooke's apprentice at the time, so was a witness to
these events. However, he seems to have exaggerated the damage. anne
sutton and Livia Visser-Fuchs also studied the trial records, and
concluded the trial was fair by the standards of the day. Margaret of
York had actually put in a plea on his behalf as he had helped
finance her marriage.
All that said, seizure of the property does seem to have occurred. It
would have been standard anyway in cases of treason. The Woodvilles
helping themselves personally, and the Duchess of Bedford hanging on
to the best tapestry, however, was not. I can't remember rhe story,
nut I guess the comaplint was that not everything was returned after
his acquittal.
I once looked at Thomas Cooke's will. He was clearly a very rich man,
and evidently dedicated to business. He referred to a second counting
house off his bedroom.
Marie
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> the son was john, he married the elderly duchess of norfolk. the
deaths of rivers and his son occurred during warwick's rebellion to
put h6 back on the throne.
>
> i'm being lazy here, but e4 was out hunting with an irish/english
lord, desmond, i think...e4 asked this lord what he thought of
woodville. the fellow replied she was beautiful, but e4 could have
done better, as in bloodlines. holinshed goes into significant detail
regarding this event.
>
> e4 told woodville. she was not amused, and within a few years the
fellow was accused of treason and executed.
>
> holinshed also gets quite detailed regarding woodville's mother,
the duchess of bedford.
>
> a wealthy london merchant, again i'm being lazy, but i think it
was thomas cooke. he had a beautiful wall hanging with lots of gold
thread/brocade. momma wanted the artwork. he wouldn't give it or sell
it to her.
>
> therefore, the woodvilles had this man arrested on trumped up
charges. while jailed they ransacked his home, pillaging and
plundering to the tune of at least 10, 000 pounds damage/theft. that
was a lot of money in those days!
It was Thomas Cooke. He was indeed tried for treason, and convicted
of misprision only. The story of the Woodvilles' ransacking comes
ultimately from Fabyan's chronicle. Fabyan, a draper like Cooke, had
actually been Cooke's apprentice at the time, so was a witness to
these events. However, he seems to have exaggerated the damage. anne
sutton and Livia Visser-Fuchs also studied the trial records, and
concluded the trial was fair by the standards of the day. Margaret of
York had actually put in a plea on his behalf as he had helped
finance her marriage.
All that said, seizure of the property does seem to have occurred. It
would have been standard anyway in cases of treason. The Woodvilles
helping themselves personally, and the Duchess of Bedford hanging on
to the best tapestry, however, was not. I can't remember rhe story,
nut I guess the comaplint was that not everything was returned after
his acquittal.
I once looked at Thomas Cooke's will. He was clearly a very rich man,
and evidently dedicated to business. He referred to a second counting
house off his bedroom.
Marie
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