Historical Drama and How It Should Be Done

Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of 14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever since.

Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.

Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?

Just out of curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of 14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever since.

Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.

Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?

Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to 80s!)

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of 14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever since.

Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.

Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?

That's a snag the musical runs into a lot- one actress has to effectively play her from age 16 to 60. The Mayerling incident shows up late in Act II as a death waltz.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to 80s!)

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of 14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever since.

Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.

Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?

Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.



rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.



rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks. I couldn't remember and didn't have the cast list to hand.

rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote: Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

He does, in a supporting role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi, and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a syphilitic prostitute.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.

rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Poor chap! He certainly was desperately in love with the selfish Sisi, but far from weak - in fact a thoroughly decent man who had an awful lot to cope with in his very lengthy reign.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: He does, in a supporting role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi, and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a syphilitic prostitute.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.

rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Not weak as a ruler in the play. Just a bit soppy and sensitive as a person and constantly hurt by his wife.

Some songs from the show (all in German except for one in Japanese):

"Milk" ("Milch")- Stuttgart production with Bruno Grassini as The Narrator/Lucheni:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzyZkAMDXzE
The peasantry has barely enough milk to feed their children. The Narrator reveals that Elisabeth, meanwhile, bathes in it every day. The peasants are furious.

"I Just Want to Tell You" ("Ich will dir nur sagen")- Essen production, with Andre Bauer as Franz Josef, Maaike Boerdam as Elisabeth and Uwe Kroger as Death:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=31hVygGMu4E
Yes, they had to get that dress into the show somewhere. Anyway, Franz Josef tells Elisabeth as she prepares for her portrait that he loves her and that he apologizes for Sophie's interference in her life, but that he would do anything for her. Elisabeth appears and reiterates that she belongs only to herself (this scene is a reprise of her "theme", "Ich gehor nur mir"), while Death lurks and reminds the audience that he'll have her in the end no matter what.


"The Shadows Grow Longer" ("Die Schatten werden langer")- Essen production promotional appearance, Uwe Kroger as Death and Jesper Tyden as Crown Prince Rudolf:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7cRBFnwsHU
Death appears earlier in the show to Rudolf, when Rudolf is still a child, and by the time Rudolf is an adult it's become almost a homoerotic obsession. In this song, Death is trying to convince Rudolf to usurp his father's throne. This is followed shortly later by the "Mayerling Waltz" that leads to his death (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lSwMHs6YZkY).

"Nur kein genieren" ("Don't Be Ashamed, Dear")- all-female Takarazuka Snow Troupe version (yes, that is a woman as Franz Josef, with short hair and a false mustache):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3thW0-APKfU
Dowager Empress Sophie takes her son Franz Josef to a brothel run by Frau Wolf in an attempt to get him to stop thinking about his distant wife. He succumbs quickly to the charms of a prostitute named Madeleine, unaware that she will pass on her disease unnoticed.





A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote:
Poor chap! He certainly was desperately in love with the selfish Sisi, but far from weak - in fact a thoroughly decent man who had an awful lot to cope with in his very lengthy reign.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: He does, in a supporting role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi, and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a syphilitic prostitute.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.

rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"That dress?" The one in the Winterhalter portrait, not one of the Monica Lewinsky variety?

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Not weak as a ruler in the play. Just a bit soppy and sensitive as a person and constantly hurt by his wife.

Some songs from the show (all in German except for one in Japanese):

"Milk" ("Milch")- Stuttgart production with Bruno Grassini as The Narrator/Lucheni:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzyZkAMDXzE
The peasantry has barely enough milk to feed their children. The Narrator reveals that Elisabeth, meanwhile, bathes in it every day. The peasants are furious.

"I Just Want to Tell You" ("Ich will dir nur sagen")- Essen production, with Andre Bauer as Franz Josef, Maaike Boerdam as Elisabeth and Uwe Kroger as Death:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=31hVygGMu4E
Yes, they had to get that dress into the show somewhere. Anyway, Franz Josef tells Elisabeth as she prepares for her portrait that he loves her and that he apologizes for Sophie's interference in her life, but that he would do anything for her. Elisabeth appears and reiterates that she belongs only to herself (this scene is a reprise of her "theme", "Ich gehor nur mir"), while Death lurks and reminds the audience that he'll have her in the end no matter what.


"The Shadows Grow Longer" ("Die Schatten werden langer")- Essen production promotional appearance, Uwe Kroger as Death and Jesper Tyden as Crown Prince Rudolf:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7cRBFnwsHU
Death appears earlier in the show to Rudolf, when Rudolf is still a child, and by the time Rudolf is an adult it's become almost a homoerotic obsession. In this song, Death is trying to convince Rudolf to usurp his father's throne. This is followed shortly later by the "Mayerling Waltz" that leads to his death (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lSwMHs6YZkY).

"Nur kein genieren" ("Don't Be Ashamed, Dear")- all-female Takarazuka Snow Troupe version (yes, that is a woman as Franz Josef, with short hair and a false mustache):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3thW0-APKfU
Dowager Empress Sophie takes her son Franz Josef to a brothel run by Frau Wolf in an attempt to get him to stop thinking about his distant wife. He succumbs quickly to the charms of a prostitute named Madeleine, unaware that she will pass on her disease unnoticed.





A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote:
Poor chap! He certainly was desperately in love with the selfish Sisi, but far from weak - in fact a thoroughly decent man who had an awful lot to cope with in his very lengthy reign.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: He does, in a supporting role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi, and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a syphilitic prostitute.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.

rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'll bet in about a hundred years there's a Clinton musical.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: "That dress?" The one in the Winterhalter portrait, not one of the Monica Lewinsky variety?

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Not weak as a ruler in the play. Just a bit soppy and sensitive as a person and constantly hurt by his wife.

Some songs from the show (all in German except for one in Japanese):

"Milk" ("Milch")- Stuttgart production with Bruno Grassini as The Narrator/Lucheni:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzyZkAMDXzE
The peasantry has barely enough milk to feed their children. The Narrator reveals that Elisabeth, meanwhile, bathes in it every day. The peasants are furious.

"I Just Want to Tell You" ("Ich will dir nur sagen")- Essen production, with Andre Bauer as Franz Josef, Maaike Boerdam as Elisabeth and Uwe Kroger as Death:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=31hVygGMu4E
Yes, they had to get that dress into the show somewhere. Anyway, Franz Josef tells Elisabeth as she prepares for her portrait that he loves her and that he apologizes for Sophie's interference in her life, but that he would do anything for her. Elisabeth appears and reiterates that she belongs only to herself (this scene is a reprise of her "theme", "Ich gehor nur mir"), while Death lurks and reminds the audience that he'll have her in the end no matter what.

"The Shadows Grow Longer" ("Die Schatten werden langer")- Essen production promotional appearance, Uwe Kroger as Death and Jesper Tyden as Crown Prince Rudolf:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7cRBFnwsHU
Death appears earlier in the show to Rudolf, when Rudolf is still a child, and by the time Rudolf is an adult it's become almost a homoerotic obsession. In this song, Death is trying to convince Rudolf to usurp his father's throne. This is followed shortly later by the "Mayerling Waltz" that leads to his death (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lSwMHs6YZkY).

"Nur kein genieren" ("Don't Be Ashamed, Dear")- all-female Takarazuka Snow Troupe version (yes, that is a woman as Franz Josef, with short hair and a false mustache):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3thW0-APKfU
Dowager Empress Sophie takes her son Franz Josef to a brothel run by Frau Wolf in an attempt to get him to stop thinking about his distant wife. He succumbs quickly to the charms of a prostitute named Madeleine, unaware that she will pass on her disease unnoticed.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote:
Poor chap! He certainly was desperately in love with the selfish Sisi, but far from weak - in fact a thoroughly decent man who had an awful lot to cope with in his very lengthy reign.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: He does, in a supporting role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi, and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a syphilitic prostitute.

A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.

Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni, the man who killed her.

Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36

I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that production.

rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
one.

IMDB has the full cast list -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/

Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who have
played her in different productions over the years.

Richard

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
80s!)
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Just out of
curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns
and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
since.
>
> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered (quite
apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so far
is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>
> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

When I watch an international collaboration of a historical drama, I
look upon WGBH (of Boston) involvement as a good sign.

- In , Megan Lerseth
<megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote:
>
> I'll bet in about a hundred years there's a Clinton musical.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: "That dress?" The one in the
Winterhalter portrait, not one of the Monica Lewinsky variety?
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Not weak as a ruler in
the play. Just a bit soppy and sensitive as a person and constantly
hurt by his wife.
>
> Some songs from the show (all in German except for one in Japanese):
>
> "Milk" ("Milch")- Stuttgart production with Bruno Grassini as The
Narrator/Lucheni:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzyZkAMDXzE
> The peasantry has barely enough milk to feed their children. The
Narrator reveals that Elisabeth, meanwhile, bathes in it every day.
The peasants are furious.
>
> "I Just Want to Tell You" ("Ich will dir nur sagen")- Essen
production, with Andre Bauer as Franz Josef, Maaike Boerdam as
Elisabeth and Uwe Kroger as Death:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=31hVygGMu4E
> Yes, they had to get that dress into the show somewhere. Anyway,
Franz Josef tells Elisabeth as she prepares for her portrait that he
loves her and that he apologizes for Sophie's interference in her
life, but that he would do anything for her. Elisabeth appears and
reiterates that she belongs only to herself (this scene is a reprise
of her "theme", "Ich gehor nur mir"), while Death lurks and reminds
the audience that he'll have her in the end no matter what.
>
> "The Shadows Grow Longer" ("Die Schatten werden langer")- Essen
production promotional appearance, Uwe Kroger as Death and Jesper
Tyden as Crown Prince Rudolf:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7cRBFnwsHU
> Death appears earlier in the show to Rudolf, when Rudolf is still a
child, and by the time Rudolf is an adult it's become almost a
homoerotic obsession. In this song, Death is trying to convince
Rudolf to usurp his father's throne. This is followed shortly later
by the "Mayerling Waltz" that leads to his death
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=lSwMHs6YZkY).
>
> "Nur kein genieren" ("Don't Be Ashamed, Dear")- all-female
Takarazuka Snow Troupe version (yes, that is a woman as Franz Josef,
with short hair and a false mustache):
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3thW0-APKfU
> Dowager Empress Sophie takes her son Franz Josef to a brothel run
by Frau Wolf in an attempt to get him to stop thinking about his
distant wife. He succumbs quickly to the charms of a prostitute named
Madeleine, unaware that she will pass on her disease unnoticed.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote:
> Poor chap! He certainly was desperately in love with the selfish
Sisi, but far from weak - in fact a thoroughly decent man who had an
awful lot to cope with in his very lengthy reign.
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: He does, in a supporting
role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi,
and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much
more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz
Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him
to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a
syphilitic prostitute.
>
> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it
difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.
>
> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea
that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case
represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty
unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni,
the man who killed her.
>
> Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
> http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36
>
> I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that
production.
>
> rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
> Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
> one.
>
> IMDB has the full cast list -
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/
>
> Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who
have
> played her in different productions over the years.
>
> Richard
>
> --- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
> fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
> there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
> 80s!)
> >
> > Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@> wrote: Just out of
> curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
> recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
> >
> > A LYON <A.Lyon1@> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
> series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs,
Hohenzollerns
> and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
> 14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
> since.
> >
> > Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
> the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
> myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
> weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered
(quite
> apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
> managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
> the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
> physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
> forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
> historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so
far
> is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
> daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
> Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
> >
> > Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

A good sign in what way? American interest in history?
I do love British historical set films and television, although I
wish our film producers would realise there is more to our history
than the bloody Tudors, but I would have to say if pressed that the
French do them better than anyone else, from Les Rois Maudits back in
the 60s to wonderful French Revolution set films like Danton and
Ridicule, to their World War II set films. They always seem to get
the atmosphere right.
Paul



On 16 Nov 2007, at 21:44, Stephen Lark wrote:

> When I watch an international collaboration of a historical drama, I
> look upon WGBH (of Boston) involvement as a good sign.
>
> - In , Megan Lerseth
> <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote:
>>
>> I'll bet in about a hundred years there's a Clinton musical.
>>
>> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: "That dress?" The one in the
> Winterhalter portrait, not one of the Monica Lewinsky variety?
>>
>> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: Not weak as a ruler in
> the play. Just a bit soppy and sensitive as a person and constantly
> hurt by his wife.
>>
>> Some songs from the show (all in German except for one in Japanese):
>>
>> "Milk" ("Milch")- Stuttgart production with Bruno Grassini as The
> Narrator/Lucheni:
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzyZkAMDXzE
>> The peasantry has barely enough milk to feed their children. The
> Narrator reveals that Elisabeth, meanwhile, bathes in it every day.
> The peasants are furious.
>>
>> "I Just Want to Tell You" ("Ich will dir nur sagen")- Essen
> production, with Andre Bauer as Franz Josef, Maaike Boerdam as
> Elisabeth and Uwe Kroger as Death:
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=31hVygGMu4E
>> Yes, they had to get that dress into the show somewhere. Anyway,
> Franz Josef tells Elisabeth as she prepares for her portrait that he
> loves her and that he apologizes for Sophie's interference in her
> life, but that he would do anything for her. Elisabeth appears and
> reiterates that she belongs only to herself (this scene is a reprise
> of her "theme", "Ich gehor nur mir"), while Death lurks and reminds
> the audience that he'll have her in the end no matter what.
>>
>> "The Shadows Grow Longer" ("Die Schatten werden langer")- Essen
> production promotional appearance, Uwe Kroger as Death and Jesper
> Tyden as Crown Prince Rudolf:
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7cRBFnwsHU
>> Death appears earlier in the show to Rudolf, when Rudolf is still a
> child, and by the time Rudolf is an adult it's become almost a
> homoerotic obsession. In this song, Death is trying to convince
> Rudolf to usurp his father's throne. This is followed shortly later
> by the "Mayerling Waltz" that leads to his death
> (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lSwMHs6YZkY).
>>
>> "Nur kein genieren" ("Don't Be Ashamed, Dear")- all-female
> Takarazuka Snow Troupe version (yes, that is a woman as Franz Josef,
> with short hair and a false mustache):
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3thW0-APKfU
>> Dowager Empress Sophie takes her son Franz Josef to a brothel run
> by Frau Wolf in an attempt to get him to stop thinking about his
> distant wife. He succumbs quickly to the charms of a prostitute named
> Madeleine, unaware that she will pass on her disease unnoticed.
>>
>> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote:
>> Poor chap! He certainly was desperately in love with the selfish
> Sisi, but far from weak - in fact a thoroughly decent man who had an
> awful lot to cope with in his very lengthy reign.
>>
>> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: He does, in a supporting
> role. He's presented as being weak and desperately in love with Sisi,
> and her independence quickly turns to selfishness. "Death" is a much
> more alluring partner, though she resists him too. Franz
> Josef's "finest" moment is when his mother is able to manipulate him
> to attempt to drown his failed adoration for his wife with a
> syphilitic prostitute.
>>
>> A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote: Hm, does Franz Josef appear? I find it
> difficult to think of him as a candidate for 'musical' treatment.
>>
>> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@...> wrote: The musical uses the idea
> that Elisabeth was literally in love with Death (in this case
> represented as a beautiful young man) and is actually pretty
> unromanticized about her character. It's narrated by Luigi Lucheni,
> the man who killed her.
>>
>> Some pictures from the last performance in Essen can be found here:
>> http://darstellerfotos.de/index.php?gruppe=36
>>
>> I have a huge crush on Uwe Kroger, the actor playing Death in that
> production.
>>
>> rgcorris <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>> Diane Keen played the young Elizabeth and Rachel Gurney the older
>> one.
>>
>> IMDB has the full cast list -
>>
>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207885/
>>
>> Interesting that they also have a list of all the actresses who
> have
>> played her in different productions over the years.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> --- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, the first episode was about her and Franz Josef, and the
>> fourth about Mayerling. Two different actresses played her (and
>> there were two Franz Josefs - difficult to age one chap from 20s to
>> 80s!)
>>>
>>> Megan Lerseth <megan_phntmgrl@> wrote: Just out of
>> curiosity, was there any Empress Elisabeth in this series? I've
>> recently fallen in love with the Austrian musical about her.
>>>
>>> A LYON <A.Lyon1@> wrote: Does anyone remember the 1974 BBC
>> series 'Fall of Eagles'? - dealing with the Habsburgs,
> Hohenzollerns
>> and Romanovs from 1848 to 1918? I was entranced by it at the age of
>> 14, and have immersed myself in the period intermittently ever
>> since.
>>>
>>> Quite by chance, I discovered a few weeks ago via Wikipedia that
>> the entire series is available on DVD via Amazon. Having treated
>> myself to the set, I watched the first four episodes over the
>> weekend and it is, if anything, even better than I remembered
> (quite
>> apart from my seeng it in colour for the first time). The BBC
>> managed to assemble a cast of top-class actors who did justice to
>> the parts they were playing and in nearly all cases bore a decent
>> physical resemblance to the character they were playing (looking
>> forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as Lenin in Episode 5). The
>> historical accuracy is excellent; my only (very mild) quibble so
> far
>> is that Wilhelm I was not yet King of Prussia when Queen Victoria's
>> daughter, Victoria, married the future Friedrich III in 1858, but
>> Regent for his brother Friedrich Wilhelm IV.
>>>
>>> Now why couldn't they have done that with The Tudors?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

"Richard Liveth Yet!"