Looking for an expert

We have people who know a lot about Irish or Spanish history, what oif
Denmark? It seemas that Lord Richard de la Pole was betrothed to a
Danish Princess whilst he was exiled in France - which one?

--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> We have people who know a lot about Irish or Spanish history, what of
> Denmark? It seemas that Lord Richard de la Pole was betrothed to a
> Danish Princess whilst he was exiled in France - which one?
>
Answer: Dorothea, daughter of King Fredrik (the former Duke of
Holstein).

http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00004364&tree=LEO

She married the Duke of Prussia in 1526, the year AFTER Lord Richard
died at Pavia.

It would have been to Richard's advantage to get his nieces married off
to loyal supporters or foreigners. Is there any indication he tried to
do this?

--- In , Ed Simons
<easimons@...> wrote:
>
> It would have been to Richard's advantage to get his nieces married
off
> to loyal supporters or foreigners. Is there any indication he
tried to
> do this?
>

Yes - it has been covered in _The Ricardian_ in the past, though I
don't have the references to hand.

Cecily was actually married to a younger son of the Scrope family -
this marriage was dissolved after Henry VII's accession.

Arrangements were being made to marry Elizabeth to the Duke of Beja
(Portugal) as part of a package that would have seen Richard himself
marrying Joanna of Portugal. Fell through because of Richard's death.

Brian W

essentially, most of r3's neices were too young, and richard had too little time to make marriage arrangements.
elizabeth m. h7

mary d. 1482

cecily m. ralph scrope circa 1485, then john de welles bef. dec 1487
margaret born/died 1472

anne b.1475..m. 1495 thomas howard...age 10 in 1485, ergo possible marriage negotiations. but richard still had to find husbands for her older sibs

katherine b. 1479 m. william courteney 1495, age 6 in 1485, and ditto

bridget b. 1480 became a nun, age 5 and ditto.

complicating any marriage arrangements these girls were illegitimate under r3.

therefore, they would only bring to the marriage what dower, their uncle or other relatives gave them...and they were also of the despised woodville bloodline.

i don't think the upper brit nobility was lining up their sons during that time frame. there were other more marketable heiresses to negotiate for.

furthermore, the peers had had enough of "forced" woodville marriages via these princesses' mother and her family.

r3 had promised to make good marriages for the girls. i think he and his advisors were a bit busy with getting the political scene under control. he wasn't too worried if little girls had good matches in hand. there would be time for that later. only later never came.

roslyn

Ed Simons <easimons@...> wrote:
It would have been to Richard's advantage to get his nieces married off
to loyal supporters or foreigners. Is there any indication he tried to
do this?

--- In , fayre rose
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> essentially, most of r3's neices were too young, and richard had
too little time to make marriage arrangements.
> elizabeth m. h7
>
> mary d. 1482
>
> cecily m. ralph scrope circa 1485, then john de welles bef. dec
1487
> margaret born/died 1472
>
> anne b.1475..m. 1495 thomas howard...age 10 in 1485, ergo
possible marriage negotiations. but richard still had to find
husbands for her older sibs
>
> katherine b. 1479 m. william courteney 1495, age 6 in 1485, and
ditto
>
> bridget b. 1480 became a nun, age 5 and ditto.
>
> complicating any marriage arrangements these girls were
illegitimate under r3.
>
> therefore, they would only bring to the marriage what dower,
their uncle or other relatives gave them...and they were also of the
despised woodville bloodline.
>
> i don't think the upper brit nobility was lining up their sons
during that time frame. there were other more marketable heiresses to
negotiate for.
>
> furthermore, the peers had had enough of "forced" woodville
marriages via these princesses' mother and her family.
>
> r3 had promised to make good marriages for the girls. i think he
and his advisors were a bit busy with getting the political scene
under control. he wasn't too worried if little girls had good matches
in hand. there would be time for that later. only later never came.
>
> roslyn
>
> Ed Simons <easimons@...> wrote:
> It would have been to Richard's advantage to get his
nieces married off
> to loyal supporters or foreigners. Is there any indication he tried
to
> do this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
There were other nieces, of course - Anne St. Leger, Margaret of
Salisbury and the de la Pole sisters.
I have probably already said that (Sir) Richard Pole was Tydder's
cousin and (Viscount) Baron Welles was his uncle, descended from
Margaret Beauchamp's three marriages, haven't I? I think my file is
posted.

Brian Wainwright wrote:

>--- In , Ed Simons
><easimons@...> wrote:
>
>
>>It would have been to Richard's advantage to get his nieces married
>>
>>
>off
>
>
>>to loyal supporters or foreigners. Is there any indication he
>>
>>
>tried to
>
>
>>do this?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Yes - it has been covered in _The Ricardian_ in the past, though I
>don't have the references to hand.
>
>
Thanks for the prompt reply. Does anyone know where online references
might be?

> >--- In , Ed Simons
> ><easimons@> wrote:
> >
>> Thanks for the prompt reply. Does anyone know where online
references
> might be?
>

I you google Ralph Scrope of Upsall you will see various references,
but to get at the meaty stuff involves taking out (or already having) a
a subscription.

The Elizabeth/Duke of Beja proposal gets a reference on this BBC Site.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A396029

And on this (American Branch) Richard III Site:
http://www.r3.org/bosworth/texts/legends_princess.html

And in this article on Elizabeth of York, which gives the Ricardian
reference:-
http://www.r3.org/basics/basic8.htmlnce.

Brian W

I have also found this for Cecily and Ralph, quoting the sources:
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2003-10/1065167388

Brian W