Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or Lancastrians.

Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of the House
of York, or Lancaster?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?


--- In , "fayreroze"
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
old
> a knight of bath?
>
> are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> so young?
>
> that is one outside the immediate royal family?
>
> roslyn
>

Hi Roslyn

I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
honour.

Brian W




Yahoo! Groups Links

what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names of their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew who they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.

i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of the House
of York, or Lancaster?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?

--- In , "fayreroze"
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
old
> a knight of bath?
>
> are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> so young?
>
> that is one outside the immediate royal family?
>
> roslyn
>

Hi Roslyn

I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
honour.

Brian W

Yahoo! Groups Links

His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were born after
1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of a
distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery Sandys.
Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt list
asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in law
was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494. His
daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord Cobham
was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or heresy.
.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.


what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names of
their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew who
they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.

i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
the House
of York, or Lancaster?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?

--- In , "fayreroze"
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
old
> a knight of bath?
>
> are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> so young?
>
> that is one outside the immediate royal family?
>
> roslyn
>

Hi Roslyn

I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
honour.

Brian W

Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links

another wiki rescue.
henry was a lancasterian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt

however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.

begin excerpt.
Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved, as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
end excerpt.
how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?

did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he purchase his freedom?

if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7 liberate him?

and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according to halstead is just as maligned as r3.

i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this filtered the response down to 44.
here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree. the site has some interesting notes.
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7702

btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3 died.

this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others had more money and could buy their pardon.

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were born after
1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of a
distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery Sandys.
Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt list
asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in law
was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494. His
daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord Cobham
was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or heresy.
.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.

what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names of
their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew who
they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.

i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
the House
of York, or Lancaster?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?

--- In , "fayreroze"
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
old
> a knight of bath?
>
> are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> so young?
>
> that is one outside the immediate royal family?
>
> roslyn
>

Hi Roslyn

I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
honour.

Brian W

Yahoo! Groups Links



Yahoo! Groups Links

Leo (Genealogics) has plenty of information on Wyatt's descendants and the 1554 rebellion - this resulted in the executions of Lady Jane and Lord Guildford Dudley, who had originally been imprisoned the previous year - which lost the Wyatt family most of what Sir Henry had gained.

----- Original Message -----
From: fayre rose
To:
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or Lancastrians.


another wiki rescue.
henry was a lancasterian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt

however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.

begin excerpt.
Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved, as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
end excerpt.
how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?

did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he purchase his freedom?

if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7 liberate him?

and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according to halstead is just as maligned as r3.

i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this filtered the response down to 44.
here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree. the site has some interesting notes.
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7702

btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3 died.

this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others had more money and could buy their pardon.

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were born after
1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of a
distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery Sandys.
Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt list
asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in law
was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494. His
daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord Cobham
was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or heresy.
.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.

what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names of
their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew who
they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.

i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
the House
of York, or Lancaster?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?

--- In , "fayreroze"
<fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
old
> a knight of bath?
>
> are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> so young?
>
> that is one outside the immediate royal family?
>
> roslyn
>

Hi Roslyn

I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
honour.

Brian W

Yahoo! Groups Links



Yahoo! Groups Links

Henry Wiatt had the following siblings Thomas, William, Richard, and Joan.
Willliam married Jane Hardy, his sister Joan married Richard Drax. I am
still searching for the spouses of the others. Henry was born in 1460, his
sister Joan in 1459, and his brother William in 1455. I am still searching
for the info on Thomas, and Richard. Can we trust what Wikipedia says.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.


> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were
born after
> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of
a
> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
Sandys.
> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt
list
> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in
law
> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494.
His
> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
Cobham
> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
heresy.
> .
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
> Lancastrians.
>
> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names
of
> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew
who
> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>
> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
> the House
> of York, or Lancaster?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>
> --- In , "fayreroze"
> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
> old
> > a knight of bath?
> >
> > are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> > so young?
> >
> > that is one outside the immediate royal family?
> >
> > roslyn
> >
>
> Hi Roslyn
>
> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
> honour.
>
> Brian W
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

The Wyatt Manuscript in the possession of Lord Romney tells of his
imprisonment and torture by Richard III. Lord Romney is a Bosville
descendant. One Thomas Bosville married Margaret Wiatt. Daughter of Sir
Francis Wiatt and Margary Sandys. I believe instead of Margaret the
daughter's name may have been Elizabeth. I was wondering if his whole family
espoused the Lancastrian cause or just Henry.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.


> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were
born after
> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of
a
> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
Sandys.
> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt
list
> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in
law
> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494.
His
> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
Cobham
> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
heresy.
> .
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
> Lancastrians.
>
> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names
of
> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew
who
> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>
> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
> the House
> of York, or Lancaster?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>
> --- In , "fayreroze"
> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
> old
> > a knight of bath?
> >
> > are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> > so young?
> >
> > that is one outside the immediate royal family?
> >
> > roslyn
> >
>
> Hi Roslyn
>
> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
> honour.
>
> Brian W
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Is this torture just another calumny to heap on Richard's shoulders?
I've not heard of Richard using torture anywhere else. This whole
tale is so full of inaccuracies I imagine it just another tale to
show Tudor in a better light. Though of course the Tudors all used
torture indiscriminately.
Paul


On 15 Mar 2008, at 04:34, Le Bateman wrote:

> The Wyatt Manuscript in the possession of Lord Romney tells of his
> imprisonment and torture by Richard III. Lord Romney is a Bosville
> descendant. One Thomas Bosville married Margaret Wiatt. Daughter of
> Sir
> Francis Wiatt and Margary Sandys. I believe instead of Margaret the
> daughter's name may have been Elizabeth. I was wondering if his
> whole family
> espoused the Lancastrian cause or just Henry.
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings
> Yorkist, or
> Lancastrians.
>
>
>> another wiki rescue.
>> henry was a lancasterian.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>>
>> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
> actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>>
>> begin excerpt.
>> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the
>> youngest son
> of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became
> involved,
> as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful
> revolt in
> the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who
> was then in
> Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt
> was
> imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of
> Richard III, on
> whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released
> on the
> death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the
> Standard of
> the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found
> means to
> join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the
> first
> acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
>> end excerpt.
>> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>>
>> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why
>> didn't he
> purchase his freedom?
>>
>> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
> liberate him?
>>
>> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas
>> who lead
> wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw,
> according
> to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>>
>> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
>> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources.
>> this
> filtered the response down to 44.
>> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the
>> tree.
> the site has some interesting notes.
>>
> http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?
> op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
> 702
>>
>> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was
>> imprisoned
> for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him
> after r3
> died.
>>
>> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
> buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of
> the others
> had more money and could buy their pardon.
>>
>> roslyn
>>
>> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
>> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan.
>> They were
> born after
>> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a
>> close
>> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for
>> this
>> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or
>> tortured in
>> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little
>> clothing
>> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely
>> enough to
>> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for
>> food. After
>> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the
>> hands of
> a
>> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of
>> Thomas
>> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
> Sandys.
>> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the
>> Wyatt
> list
>> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's
>> son in
> law
>> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in
>> 1494.
> His
>> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was
>> Thomas
>> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
> Cobham
>> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle
>> was a
>> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or
>> Assemblies of
>> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
> heresy.
>> .
>> Le
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings
>> Yorkist,
> or
>> Lancastrians.
>>
>> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the
>> names
> of
>> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if
>> we knew
> who
>> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>>
>> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name
>> variants.
>>
>> roslyn
>>
>> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
>> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
>> the House
>> of York, or Lancaster?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>>
>> --- In , "fayreroze"
>> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
>> old
>>> a knight of bath?
>>>
>>> are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
>>> so young?
>>>
>>> that is one outside the immediate royal family?
>>>
>>> roslyn
>>>
>>
>> Hi Roslyn
>>
>> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
>> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
>> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
>> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
>> honour.
>>
>> Brian W
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

"Richard Liveth Yet!"

Jacob,

I have my doubts about the veracity of this manuscript. How old is it - it was obviously written under the Tudors or their successors but it may have been 200 years after the events.

This is not to claim that Wikipedia is a perfect historical source, of course, but it is quite probably more reliable than this Wyatt Manuscript until we all know more about it!

Stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: Le Bateman
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or Lancastrians.


The Wyatt Manuscript in the possession of Lord Romney tells of his
imprisonment and torture by Richard III. Lord Romney is a Bosville
descendant. One Thomas Bosville married Margaret Wiatt. Daughter of Sir
Francis Wiatt and Margary Sandys. I believe instead of Margaret the
daughter's name may have been Elizabeth. I was wondering if his whole family
espoused the Lancastrian cause or just Henry.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.

> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were
born after
> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of
a
> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
Sandys.
> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt
list
> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in
law
> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494.
His
> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
Cobham
> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
heresy.
> .
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
> Lancastrians.
>
> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names
of
> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew
who
> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>
> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
> the House
> of York, or Lancaster?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>
> --- In , "fayreroze"
> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
> old
> > a knight of bath?
> >
> > are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> > so young?
> >
> > that is one outside the immediate royal family?
> >
> > roslyn
> >
>
> Hi Roslyn
>
> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
> honour.
>
> Brian W
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On 15 Mar 2008, at 12:10, Stephen Lark wrote:

> This is not to claim that Wikipedia is a perfect historical source,
> of course, but it is quite probably more reliable than this Wyatt
> Manuscript until we all know more about it!


I trust you are being ironic, Stephen, when you say this about
Wilkipedia, where anybody can add anything they like to an entry!
More reliable than the Wyatt maybe, but reliable in general, no.
Paul


"Richard Liveth Yet!"

Hi, Paul!



Not to butt in, and Iým no expert on Wikipedia ý but I do find that it is
*excellent* as an online reference for all sorts of varied topics. Just for
an example, I found a great history of Hess Brothers department store of
Allentown, Pennsylvania, my momýs and my favourite shopping venue from my
youth. Now *thatýs* a really obscure topic ý and the info in the article, to
the best of my knowledge, was quite accurate.



Also, I believe that the articles cite their sources and state if they
require amplification. Also, there are topics where they state that the
material is being disputed, and they have a mechanism for resolving those
disputes. I donýt believe that it is simply a matter of anyone uploading
anything onto the website. I do believe there is scrutiny and a caveat
posted on the page if the information hasnýt been fully verified. I donýt
think you can ask any more for such a wonderful online service, which also
happens to be free! :-)



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Email ý HYPERLINK
"mailto:jltournier@..."jltournier@...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



_____

From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
Bale
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:29 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.




On 15 Mar 2008, at 12:10, Stephen Lark wrote:

> This is not to claim that Wikipedia is a perfect historical source,
> of course, but it is quite probably more reliable than this Wyatt
> Manuscript until we all know more about it!

I trust you are being ironic, Stephen, when you say this about
Wilkipedia, where anybody can add anything they like to an entry!
More reliable than the Wyatt maybe, but reliable in general, no.
Paul

"Richard Liveth Yet!"


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008
12:33 PM



No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008
12:33 PM

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale
<paultrevor@...> wrote:
>
> Is this torture just another calumny to heap on Richard's shoulders?
> I've not heard of Richard using torture anywhere else. This whole
> tale is so full of inaccuracies I imagine it just another tale to
> show Tudor in a better light. Though of course the Tudors all used
> torture indiscriminately.
> Paul



I had the same thought, Paul.

And by the way, the story of the captive being kept alive by a cat who
caught a pigeon and brought it to him every day is one of those tales
that pop up in several countries and centuries.

Katy

wikipedia is often considered reliable, especially when the sources are cited. the article on wyatt is of very poor quality. it does not cite it's sources.
the public has the ability to improve the quality by doing some research and contributing to the page.

here's wiki's on page on itself. it explains how wiki works and how people can contribute to it, and how it can be made reliable and unreliable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia

roslyn

Paul Trevor Bale <paultrevor@...> wrote:

On 15 Mar 2008, at 12:10, Stephen Lark wrote:

> This is not to claim that Wikipedia is a perfect historical source,
> of course, but it is quite probably more reliable than this Wyatt
> Manuscript until we all know more about it!

I trust you are being ironic, Stephen, when you say this about
Wilkipedia, where anybody can add anything they like to an entry!
More reliable than the Wyatt maybe, but reliable in general, no.
Paul

"Richard Liveth Yet!"

re.resending this..it appears to have disappeared into the ether. (again)

WEBMASTER..is there a size limit on what is sent?
and now on to the msg. brevity snipped below.

personally, i'd take the wiki page with a grain of salt. it is unsourced. it does have a discussion page where you could post comment, and perhaps request the person who contributed the info contact you or supply the source of their info.

the tudor place has a very similiar bio.
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/HenryWyatt.htm

this webpage gives a bit more info.
http://www.southern-style.com/Wyatt.htm

http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/wyattbio.htm

this url below says henry and h7 attended eton together??? did h7 go to eton?
wiki on attendees of eton shows neither wyatt or h7 went there. i think there would be a big toodoo if h7 was an etonian alumi.

here's the paragraph..note there's nothing about the duke of buckingham's rebellion.
He was very close to Henry Tudor later Henry VII with whom he attended Eton, a matter whiich greatly disturbed Richard III who feared Tudor connection with the wealthy, much loved Wiatt. For this reason Richard III had Wyatt imprisoned in a tower in Scotland, where he was required to wear instruments of torture during the imprisonment.
http://www.deloriahurst.com/deloriahurst%20page/3002.html

i'd sure want to know the sources for the above info!

http://www.r3.org/fiction/roses/murph.html
there is a blurb on wyatt and a fictionalised account. i have to wonder if this fiction has now become "fact" and forged it's way into family history. the fictious book described here is probably the source of the outlandish info above.

here's an story from a book written the 19thC.
There is a pretty tradition connected with the Tower in the time of the Wars of the Roses. Sir Henry Wyatt, of Allington Castle, in Kent, father of the poet, and grandfather of the unfortunate rebel, was imprisoned in the Tower for being a resolute Lancastrian. He was thrown into a cold and narrow tower, where he had neither bed to lie on, sufficient clothes to warm him, or enough food to eat. One day a cat came into his dungeon, and he laid her in his bosom to warm him, "and by making much of her won her love." After this the cat would come several times a day, and sometimes bring him a pigeon. The gaoler dressed these pigeons, without inquiring where they came from. Sir Henry Wyatt after this retained an affection for cats, and was always painted with one by his side. One day, when Wyatt was being tortured with the barnacles, Richard III., who was present, exclaimed with regret, "Wyatt, why art thou such a fool? Thou servest for moonshine in water. Thy master," meaning
Henry of Richmond, "is a beggarly fugitive: forsake him and become mine. Cannot I reward thee?" To which Wyatt replied, "If I had first chosen you for my master, thus faithful would I have been to you if you should have needed it. But the earl, poor and unhappy though he be, is my master; and no discouragement, no allurement, shall ever drive me from him, by God's grace."
From: 'The Tower: (part 1 of 2)', Old and New London: Volume 2 (1878), pp. 60-76.

(the following paragraph relates the fate of e5. just in case anyone is interested.)
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=45075&strquery=wyatt

Date accessed: 15 March 2008.
quite frankly, i'd take all of the above with really big grain of salt and invest some time searching the a2a archives, the PRO archives etc. that are online to sort through the chaff.

the world library catalogue may also provide some leads via chronicles and scholarly works.

btw..i googled "henry wyatt" tudor to find the above pages. there were 600+ hits.

it would however appear, in spite of all the salt, your henry was a lancastarian. oh..and i'd also search known locations/residences/counties. with a little work (ahem) you'll get to the bottom of the myth if you're willing to turn over scrap of straw looking for the needles.

sorry no short answers here..

roslyn


Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote: Henry Wiatt had the following siblings Thomas, William, Richard, and Joan.
Willliam married Jane Hardy, his sister Joan married Richard Drax. I am
still searching for the spouses of the others. Henry was born in 1460, his
sister Joan in 1459, and his brother William in 1455. I am still searching
for the info on Thomas, and Richard. Can we trust what Wikipedia says.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.

> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
>



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resending this..it appears to have disappeared into the ether.
personally, i'd take the wiki page with a grain of salt. it is unsourced. it does have a discussion page where you could post comment, and perhaps request the person who contributed the info contact you or supply the source of their info.

the tudor place has a very similiar bio.
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/HenryWyatt.htm

this webpage gives a bit more info.
http://www.southern-style.com/Wyatt.htm

http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/wyattbio.htm

this url below says henry and h7 attended eton together??? did h7 go to eton?
wiki on attendees of eton shows neither wyatt or h7 went there. i think there would be a big toodoo if h7 was an etonian alumi.

here's the paragraph..note there's nothing about the duke of buckingham's rebellion.
He was very close to Henry Tudor later Henry VII with whom he attended Eton, a matter whiich greatly disturbed Richard III who feared Tudor connection with the wealthy, much loved Wiatt. For this reason Richard III had Wyatt imprisoned in a tower in Scotland, where he was required to wear instruments of torture during the imprisonment.
http://www.deloriahurst.com/deloriahurst%20page/3002.html

i'd sure want to know the sources for the above info!

http://www.r3.org/fiction/roses/murph.html
there is a blurb on wyatt and a fictionalised account. i have to wonder if this fiction has now become "fact" and forged it's way into family history. the fictious book described here is probably the source of the outlandish info above.

here's an story from a book written the 19thC.
There is a pretty tradition connected with the Tower in the time of the Wars of the Roses. Sir Henry Wyatt, of Allington Castle, in Kent, father of the poet, and grandfather of the unfortunate rebel, was imprisoned in the Tower for being a resolute Lancastrian. He was thrown into a cold and narrow tower, where he had neither bed to lie on, sufficient clothes to warm him, or enough food to eat. One day a cat came into his dungeon, and he laid her in his bosom to warm him, "and by making much of her won her love." After this the cat would come several times a day, and sometimes bring him a pigeon. The gaoler dressed these pigeons, without inquiring where they came from. Sir Henry Wyatt after this retained an affection for cats, and was always painted with one by his side. One day, when Wyatt was being tortured with the barnacles, Richard III., who was present, exclaimed with regret, "Wyatt, why art thou such a fool? Thou servest for moonshine in water. Thy master," meaning
Henry of Richmond, "is a beggarly fugitive: forsake him and become mine. Cannot I reward thee?" To which Wyatt replied, "If I had first chosen you for my master, thus faithful would I have been to you if you should have needed it. But the earl, poor and unhappy though he be, is my master; and no discouragement, no allurement, shall ever drive me from him, by God's grace."
From: 'The Tower: (part 1 of 2)', Old and New London: Volume 2 (1878), pp. 60-76.

(the following paragraph relates the fate of e5. just in case anyone is interested.)
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=45075&strquery=wyatt

Date accessed: 15 March 2008.
quite frankly, i'd take all of the above with really big grain of salt and invest some time searching the a2a archives, the PRO archives etc. that are online to sort through the chaff.

the world library catalogue may also provide some leads via chronicles and scholarly works.

btw..i googled "henry wyatt" tudor to find the above pages. there were 600+ hits.

it would however appear, in spite of all the salt, your henry was a lancastarian. oh..and i'd also search known locations/residences/counties. with a little work (ahem) you'll get to the bottom of the myth if you're willing to turn over scrap of straw looking for the needles.

sorry no short answers here..

roslyn

Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
The Wyatt Manuscript in the possession of Lord Romney tells of his
imprisonment and torture by Richard III. Lord Romney is a Bosville
descendant. One Thomas Bosville married Margaret Wiatt. Daughter of Sir
Francis Wiatt and Margary Sandys. I believe instead of Margaret the
daughter's name may have been Elizabeth. I was wondering if his whole family
espoused the Lancastrian cause or just Henry.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.

> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were
born after
> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of
a
> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
Sandys.
> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt
list
> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in
law
> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494.
His
> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
Cobham
> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
heresy.
> .
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
> Lancastrians.
>
> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names
of
> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew
who
> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>
> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
> the House
> of York, or Lancaster?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>
> --- In , "fayreroze"
> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
> old
> > a knight of bath?
> >
> > are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> > so young?
> >
> > that is one outside the immediate royal family?
> >
> > roslyn
> >
>
> Hi Roslyn
>
> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
> honour.
>
> Brian W
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

personally, i'd take the wiki page with a grain of salt. it is unsourced. it does have a discussion page where you could post comment, and perhaps request the person who contributed the info contact you or supply the source of their info.

the tudor place has a very similiar bio.
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/HenryWyatt.htm

this webpage gives a bit more info.
http://www.southern-style.com/Wyatt.htm

http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/wyattbio.htm

this url below says henry and h7 attended eton together??? did h7 go to eton?
wiki on attendees of eton shows neither wyatt or h7 went there. i think there would be a big toodoo if h7 was an etonian alumi.

here's the paragraph..note there's nothing about the duke of buckingham's rebellion.
He was very close to Henry Tudor later Henry VII with whom he attended Eton, a matter whiich greatly disturbed Richard III who feared Tudor connection with the wealthy, much loved Wiatt. For this reason Richard III had Wyatt imprisoned in a tower in Scotland, where he was required to wear instruments of torture during the imprisonment.
http://www.deloriahurst.com/deloriahurst%20page/3002.html

i'd sure want to know the sources for the above info!

http://www.r3.org/fiction/roses/murph.html
there is a blurb on wyatt and a fictionalised account. i have to wonder if this fiction has now become "fact" and forged it's way into family history. the fictious book described here is probably the source of the outlandish info above.

here's an story from a book written the 19thC.
There is a pretty tradition connected with the Tower in the time of the Wars of the Roses. Sir Henry Wyatt, of Allington Castle, in Kent, father of the poet, and grandfather of the unfortunate rebel, was imprisoned in the Tower for being a resolute Lancastrian. He was thrown into a cold and narrow tower, where he had neither bed to lie on, sufficient clothes to warm him, or enough food to eat. One day a cat came into his dungeon, and he laid her in his bosom to warm him, "and by making much of her won her love." After this the cat would come several times a day, and sometimes bring him a pigeon. The gaoler dressed these pigeons, without inquiring where they came from. Sir Henry Wyatt after this retained an affection for cats, and was always painted with one by his side. One day, when Wyatt was being tortured with the barnacles, Richard III., who was present, exclaimed with regret, "Wyatt, why art thou such a fool? Thou servest for moonshine in water. Thy master," meaning
Henry of Richmond, "is a beggarly fugitive: forsake him and become mine. Cannot I reward thee?" To which Wyatt replied, "If I had first chosen you for my master, thus faithful would I have been to you if you should have needed it. But the earl, poor and unhappy though he be, is my master; and no discouragement, no allurement, shall ever drive me from him, by God's grace."
From: 'The Tower: (part 1 of 2)', Old and New London: Volume 2 (1878), pp. 60-76.

(the following paragraph relates the fate of e5. just in case anyone is interested.)
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=45075&strquery=wyatt

Date accessed: 15 March 2008.
quite frankly, i'd take all of the above with really big grain of salt and invest some time searching the a2a archives, the PRO archives etc. that are online to sort through the chaff.

the world library catalogue may also provide some leads via chronicles and scholarly works.

btw..i googled "henry wyatt" tudor to find the above pages. there were 600+ hits.

it would however appear, in spite of all the salt, your henry was a lancastarian. oh..and i'd also search known locations/residences/counties. with a little work (ahem) you'll get to the bottom of the myth if you're willing to turn over scrap of straw looking for the needles.

sorry no short answers here..

roslyn





Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
Henry Wiatt had the following siblings Thomas, William, Richard, and Joan.
Willliam married Jane Hardy, his sister Joan married Richard Drax. I am
still searching for the spouses of the others. Henry was born in 1460, his
sister Joan in 1459, and his brother William in 1455. I am still searching
for the info on Thomas, and Richard. Can we trust what Wikipedia says.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.

> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III, on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw, according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were
born after
> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little clothing
> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough to
> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food. After
> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands of
a
> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
Sandys.
> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt
list
> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in
law
> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494.
His
> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was Thomas
> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
Cobham
> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies of
> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
heresy.
> .
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
> Lancastrians.
>
> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names
of
> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew
who
> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>
> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name variants.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
> the House
> of York, or Lancaster?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>
> --- In , "fayreroze"
> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
> old
> > a knight of bath?
> >
> > are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> > so young?
> >
> > that is one outside the immediate royal family?
> >
> > roslyn
> >
>
> Hi Roslyn
>
> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
> honour.
>
> Brian W
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Stephen I am not certain who old this, but I assume that Henry Wiatt wrote
it.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist, or
Lancastrians.


Jacob,

I have my doubts about the veracity of this manuscript. How old is it - it
was obviously written under the Tudors or their successors but it may have
been 200 years after the events.

This is not to claim that Wikipedia is a perfect historical source, of
course, but it is quite probably more reliable than this Wyatt Manuscript
until we all know more about it!

Stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: Le Bateman
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or Lancastrians.


The Wyatt Manuscript in the possession of Lord Romney tells of his
imprisonment and torture by Richard III. Lord Romney is a Bosville
descendant. One Thomas Bosville married Margaret Wiatt. Daughter of Sir
Francis Wiatt and Margary Sandys. I believe instead of Margaret the
daughter's name may have been Elizabeth. I was wondering if his whole
family
espoused the Lancastrian cause or just Henry.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
Lancastrians.

> another wiki rescue.
> henry was a lancasterian.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wyatt
>
> however, there seems to be some contradiction as to if henry was
actually imprisoned..or some really bad research, or writing.
>
> begin excerpt.
> Henry Wyatt was a young cadet of the Lancastrian house, the youngest son
of a Yorkshire squire of Southange in Yorkshire. In 1483 he became
involved,
as a stout Lancastrian in the Duke of Buckingham's unsuccessful revolt in
the West Country in favour of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, who was then
in
Brittany awaiting possible developments. In consequence Henry Wyatt was
imprisoned in the Tower during the two years of the reign of Richard III,
on
whose orders he is said to have been tortured. He was only released on the
death of King Richard and the accession of Henry VII. When the Standard of
the fugitive Earl floated on the field of Bosworth, Wyatt found means to
join it. When the Usurper had fallen on Bosworth field, one of the first
acts of Henry VII was to liberate Henry ...
> end excerpt.
> how can wyatt be loose to fight for h7, and then h7 liberates him?
>
> did wyatt some how fund h7? if wyatt had money to fund h7, why didn't he
purchase his freedom?
>
> if wyatt was free to join h7 on the battle field, then how could h7
liberate him?
>
> and i learned something, henry is the grandfather of the thomas who lead
wyatt's rebellion to remove bloody mary from the throne. who, btw,
according
to halstead is just as maligned as r3.
>
> i went to rootsweb and queried henry with his father richard.
> additionally, i selected the boxes with desc. notes and sources. this
filtered the response down to 44.
> here's one i followed back to the earliest verified wyatt in the tree.
the site has some interesting notes.
>
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ddunlop1205&id=I7
702
>
> btw..from what i've just read regarding your henry, he was imprisoned
for his part in buckingham's rebellion. and then tudor released him after
r3
died.
>
> this i find interesting, as there are others who were involved with
buckingham that didn't "do the time". i wonder if this a case of the
others
had more money and could buy their pardon.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> His siblings were Thomas, Richard, William, and Joan. They were
born after
> 1460. I do not have the names of their spouses sorry. Henry had a close
> association with the Tudors. he was imprisoned by Richard III for this
> association. One source said he was even wracked for it or tortured in
> someway. Put on very little food and water, and given very little
clothing
> in the Tower, just a meager ration of food and clothing, barely enough
to
> keep him alive. A cat brought him a brown pigeon everyday for food.
After
> the death of his descendant Edwin Wyatt Allington passed into the hands
of
a
> distant relation Lord Romney. These were the male descendants of Thomas
> Bosville, who married the daughter of Sir. Francis Wyatt and Margery
Sandys.
> Henry Wyatt's wife was Ann Skinner. I have posted a query to the Wyatt
list
> asking for their vital stats, and who their spouses were. Henry's son in
law
> was Anthony Lee, who married his daughter Margaret who was born in 1494.
His
> daughter in law Thomas's wife was Elizabeth Brooke. Her father was
Thomas
> Brooke Lord Cobham, his mother was Margaret Neville. Thomas 6th Lord
Cobham
> was an interesting person. He like his step-father John Oldcastle was a
> Lollard. Now were they Medieval versions of Pentecostals, or Assemblies
of
> God. He unlike his Step-father did not loose his head for treason or
heresy.
> .
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fayre rose" <fayreroze@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Henry Wiatt's siblings Yorkist,
or
> Lancastrians.
>
> what are the siblings names and birth or death dates, and even the names
of
> their spouses. it might be easier to identify their loyalties if we knew
who
> they were. i've done no "knowingly" research on henry, ergo his sibs.
>
> i do know that wiatt and waitt/e can sometimes be the same name
variants.
>
> roslyn
>
> Le Bateman <LeBateman@...> wrote:
> Can anyone say if any of Henry Wiatt's siblings were supporters of
> the House
> of York, or Lancaster?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Wainwright" <wainwright.brian@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: knight of bath age 5?
>
> --- In , "fayreroze"
> <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > edward at age 3 was an earl, but would they really make a 5 year
> old
> > a knight of bath?
> >
> > are there other known examples of knighthood being conferred on one
> > so young?
> >
> > that is one outside the immediate royal family?
> >
> > roslyn
> >
>
> Hi Roslyn
>
> I know that Edward, the second Duke of York (albeit first cousin to
> the king) was knighted at Richard II's coronation when he cannot have
> been more than four at the utmost. It seems that age was not a
> barrier if the king (or those acting for him) wanted to bestow an
> honour.
>
> Brian W
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>









------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links