Re: Hastings' motives

I have never been able to figure out a rational motive behind
Hastings' actions or his sudden downfall.

One thing sure, though: watever Hastings was up to, the whole thing
came to a head quickly and perhaps precipitously there in the council
chamber that day.

Richard came in to the meeting late and visibly agitated, then he
stalled for time by asking for some of the famous strawberries from
the Bishop of Ely's garden. Morton sent for some, and during that
interval, something happened. I believe Richard received some
information he had been waiting for, and involved Hastings in some
grievous plot or betrayal. The king's armed men burst in and Hastings
or some of his men drew swords. Drawing a weapon in the King's
presence is high treason in itself, which shows that Hastings had
reason to panic.

I'm suspicious of how Morton (whom I believe actually wrote the vivid
account of the fracas that later appeared in More's history of Richard
III) goes to great length to paint Richard as acting irrational and
erratic, and Hastings as the innocent victim of his crazed wrath.
Whatever Hastings was up to, I suspect Morton was somehow involved.

By the way, in trying to look up what the London residence of the
Bishop of Ely was called (Ely Place...duh) I found this very
interesting account of the growth of the Tower of London from William
I's fortess to the compound it became:

http://www.our-trips.com/england/london/ltower/thistory.html

Katy

--- In , oregonkaty <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I have never been able to figure out a rational motive behind
> Hastings' actions or his sudden downfall.

Sheer jealousy - maybe understandable.

There has been an interesting 2 part article "Why Hastings Lost His Head" in the Ricardian
- written by David Johnson who concludes that he believes that there was a plot, devised
by Hastings, to have Richard and Buckingham both assassinated the day of the council
meeting. The blame would then have been put upon the Woodvilles. Richard had already
announced that the Queen/Woodviles were out to destroy him. If this plan had worked,
Richard & Buckingham would have been out of the way plus the Queen/Woodvilles leaving
the path clear for Hastings to take over the Protectorship - neat!

Eileen
>
> One thing sure, though: watever Hastings was up to, the whole thing
> came to a head quickly and perhaps precipitously there in the council
> chamber that day.
>
> Richard came in to the meeting late and visibly agitated, then he
> stalled for time by asking for some of the famous strawberries from
> the Bishop of Ely's garden. Morton sent for some, and during that
> interval, something happened. I believe Richard received some
> information he had been waiting for, and involved Hastings in some
> grievous plot or betrayal. The king's armed men burst in and Hastings
> or some of his men drew swords. Drawing a weapon in the King's
> presence is high treason in itself, which shows that Hastings had
> reason to panic.
>
> I'm suspicious of how Morton (whom I believe actually wrote the vivid
> account of the fracas that later appeared in More's history of Richard
> III) goes to great length to paint Richard as acting irrational and
> erratic, and Hastings as the innocent victim of his crazed wrath.
> Whatever Hastings was up to, I suspect Morton was somehow involved.
>
> By the way, in trying to look up what the London residence of the
> Bishop of Ely was called (Ely Place...duh) I found this very
> interesting account of the growth of the Tower of London from William
> I's fortess to the compound it became:
>
> http://www.our-trips.com/england/london/ltower/thistory.html
>
> Katy
>

this url offers some interesting insight in to hastings.
http://www.richardiii.net/r3%20controv%20hastings.htm

also, i read somewhere that hastings and morton were pushing legislation/bills through without consulting richard. richard as protector would have seen this as a usurpation of his power as the protector.

roslyn

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, eileen <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:

From: eileen <ebatesparrot@...>
Subject: Re: Hastings' motives
To:
Received: Monday, June 16, 2008, 6:02 PM






--- In richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com, oregonkaty <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
>
> I have never been able to figure out a rational motive behind
> Hastings' actions or his sudden downfall.

Sheer jealousy - maybe understandable.

There has been an interesting 2 part article "Why Hastings Lost His Head" in the Ricardian
- written by David Johnson who concludes that he believes that there was a plot, devised
by Hastings, to have Richard and Buckingham both assassinated the day of the council
meeting. The blame would then have been put upon the Woodvilles. Richard had already
announced that the Queen/Woodviles were out to destroy him. If this plan had worked,
Richard & Buckingham would have been out of the way plus the Queen/Woodvilles leaving
the path clear for Hastings to take over the Protectorship - neat!

Eileen
>
> One thing sure, though: watever Hastings was up to, the whole thing
> came to a head quickly and perhaps precipitously there in the council
> chamber that day.
>
> Richard came in to the meeting late and visibly agitated, then he
> stalled for time by asking for some of the famous strawberries from
> the Bishop of Ely's garden. Morton sent for some, and during that
> interval, something happened. I believe Richard received some
> information he had been waiting for, and involved Hastings in some
> grievous plot or betrayal. The king's armed men burst in and Hastings
> or some of his men drew swords. Drawing a weapon in the King's
> presence is high treason in itself, which shows that Hastings had
> reason to panic.
>
> I'm suspicious of how Morton (whom I believe actually wrote the vivid
> account of the fracas that later appeared in More's history of Richard
> III) goes to great length to paint Richard as acting irrational and
> erratic, and Hastings as the innocent victim of his crazed wrath.
> Whatever Hastings was up to, I suspect Morton was somehow involved.
>
> By the way, in trying to look up what the London residence of the
> Bishop of Ely was called (Ely Place...duh) I found this very
> interesting account of the growth of the Tower of London from William
> I's fortess to the compound it became:
>
> http://www.our- trips.com/ england/london/ ltower/thistory. html
>
> Katy
>

--- In , oregonkaty
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I have never been able to figure out a rational motive behind
> Hastings' actions or his sudden downfall.
>

I did some research into Hastings some time back, and what hit me was
how little he had in lands; most of his power came from his offices,
which were at the sovereign's disposal. Loyalty to Edward V apart, if
he had reason to think that he would have less clout (through
offices) under Richard, then he had a powerful motive to rebel.

For example, as Lord Chamberlain Hastings controlled access to Edward
IV. Therefore it was in a lot of people's interest to oil the wheels
by giving the Chamberlain the odd present. As Lieutenant of Calais he
had control of one of the very few standing garrisons, and lots of
opportunity for patronage.

The 'special relationship' between Edward IV and Hastings is key.
Hastings must have known that without it he would be just another
petty Midlands baron. So he had to come up with something - quick -
to give himself an equal status under whatever new government was
going to emerge. Evidently, either Richard did not bid high enough,
or Hastings simply didn't trust him.

Brian W

--- In , "Brian Wainwright"
<wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> I did some research into Hastings some time back, and what hit me was
> how little he had in lands; most of his power came from his offices,
> which were at the sovereign's disposal.


Perhaps that is the key to the events. Both Hastings and Buckingham
were descendants of Edward III, but neither descended through male
lines exclusively. Buckingham's forebears had married better, and his
grandfather, who had been an important supporter of the Lancastrian
cause, had been created a duke in 1444. Hastings' lineage wasn't as
good. His father was a knight who owned modest estates in
Gloucestershire and Leicestershire.

Hastings was married to a sister of Richard Neville, the Earl of
Warwick. Buckingham was married to a sister of Edward IV's queen,
Elizabeth Woodville,

As Brian notes, Hastings was perhaps rich in titles, but poor in land
and the income from land. His power came from the offices he was
appointed to by the King, and that could change in an instant.

Buckingham was the richest man in England, and his star was on the
rise through appointments and titles Richard was heaping upon him.

Maybe Hastings was conspiring to get rid of Buckingham, either
literally by arranging his death, or at least bumping him out of
Richard's good regard and trust by framing him as disloyal to Richard.
Richard's motto was not a pretty phrase -- he seems to have set
tremendous store by loyalty, his loyalty to others, ans others'
loyalty to him. Look at how he reacted later to Buckingham's
disloyalty. (Maybe Hastings wasn't framing Buckingham -- maybe he
discovered and tried to reveal a genuine scheme of Buck's to usurp the
throne, but somehow Hastings didn't make his case properly, and he was
not believed.)

Whatever precipitated the events in the council chambers that June
day, that led to Hastings' execution, I would bet it involved
disloyalty. I don't think Richard would have been so distraught over
anything else.

Katy