WOTR playing cards

I've been toying with the idea of a set of playing cards featuring
Wars of the Roses personalities, and was wondering if anyone knows if
such a deck already exists?

This would feature the appropriate Royalty as the picture cards, with
leading nobles as the lower values.

I'm thinking of portraits for the Kings, Queens and Jacks, with
heraldic shields for the nobles as very few portraits exist for these
anyway.

Initial suggestion for higher cards:

Hearts:
K - Henry VI
Q - Margaret of Anjou
J - Edward P of Wales
A - Duke of Somerset?

Diamonds:
K - Henry VII
Q - Margaret Beaufort?
J - Jasper Tudor?
A - Earl of Oxford

Spades:
K - Edward IV
Q - Elizabeth Woodville
J - Edward V
A - Earl of Warwick?

Clubs
K - Richard III
Q - Anne Neville
J - George of Clarence
A - Duke of Norfolk (Howard)

Jokers:
Lambert Simnell
Perkin Warbeck

Does anyone know if there are reliable portraits of Clarence of
Jasper Tudor?

--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> I've been toying with the idea of a set of playing cards featuring
> Wars of the Roses personalities, and was wondering if anyone knows
if
> such a deck already exists?
>
> This would feature the appropriate Royalty as the picture cards,
with
> leading nobles as the lower values.
>
> I'm thinking of portraits for the Kings, Queens and Jacks, with
> heraldic shields for the nobles as very few portraits exist for
these
> anyway.
>
> Initial suggestion for higher cards:
>
> Hearts:
> K - Henry VI
> Q - Margaret of Anjou
> J - Edward P of Wales
> A - Duke of Somerset?
>
> Diamonds:
> K - Henry VII
> Q - Margaret Beaufort?
> J - Jasper Tudor?
> A - Earl of Oxford
>
> Spades:
> K - Edward IV
> Q - Elizabeth Woodville
> J - Edward V
> A - Earl of Warwick?
>
> Clubs
> K - Richard III
> Q - Anne Neville
> J - George of Clarence
> A - Duke of Norfolk (Howard)
>
> Jokers:
> Lambert Simnell
> Perkin Warbeck
>
> Does anyone know if there are reliable portraits of Clarence of
> Jasper Tudor?
>
There is a great portrait of Clarence n his Ruvigny volume, if I
recall, together with some of his descendants.

Sounds like fun! But how did you arrive at who is in each suit? I think
Richard should be King of Spades or of Hearts!!!



L.M.L.,

Janet

By the way, I have heard that the Queen of Hearts was originally modeled
after Elizabeth Woodville.



L.M.L.,

Janet

The usual claim is for her daughter -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_hearts

Richard G

--- In , "Janet Trimbath"
<forevere@...> wrote:
>
> By the way, I have heard that the Queen of Hearts was originally
> modelled after Elizabeth Woodville.
>
> L.M.L.,
>
> Janet

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> -
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> There is a great portrait of Clarence n his Ruvigny volume, if I
> recall, together with some of his descendants.

Stephen, does this portrait date from the 15th century for sure? If so, I would love to see it
but unfortunately the book is tad pricey!!
Eileen
>

Yes, Eileen, it is far too expensive for me to buy but I borrowed that volume from my Central Library for a £4.60 fee. I recommend it - there are other portraits although I don't recall whether Clarence's portrait is contemporary.

----- Original Message -----
From: eileen
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: WOTR playing cards


--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> -
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> There is a great portrait of Clarence n his Ruvigny volume, if I
> recall, together with some of his descendants.

Stephen, does this portrait date from the 15th century for sure? If so, I would love to see it
but unfortunately the book is tad pricey!!
Eileen
>

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, Eileen, it is far too expensive for me to buy but I borrowed that volume from my
Central Library for a £4.60 fee. I recommend it - there are other portraits although I don't
recall whether Clarence's portrait is contemporary.
>

Thanks Stephen
Eileen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: eileen
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: WOTR playing cards
>
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@>
wrote:
> >
> > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > There is a great portrait of Clarence n his Ruvigny volume, if I
> > recall, together with some of his descendants.
>
> Stephen, does this portrait date from the 15th century for sure? If so, I would love to
see it
> but unfortunately the book is tad pricey!!
> Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, I really need them to be authentic.

For example I wouldn't use the portrait usually shown for the
Kingmaker - complete with outrageous Elizabethan costume and full
ginger beard!

--- In , "eileen"
<ebatesparrot@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, Eileen, it is far too expensive for me to buy but I borrowed
that volume from my
> Central Library for a £4.60 fee. I recommend it - there are other
portraits although I don't
> recall whether Clarence's portrait is contemporary.
> >
>
> Thanks Stephen
> Eileen
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: eileen
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: WOTR playing cards
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > There is a great portrait of Clarence n his Ruvigny volume,
if I
> > > recall, together with some of his descendants.
> >
> > Stephen, does this portrait date from the 15th century for
sure? If so, I would love to
> see it
> > but unfortunately the book is tad pricey!!
> > Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Is your plan to reproduce the portraits as photographs of the portraits or
to re-draw the portraits on the cards?

What kind of card backs will you have? White roses?



L.M.L.,

Janet

I don't have the skills to redraw the pics, the problem is finding
the 12 authentic portraits I need.

Open to suggestions for the card backs as I'm thinking of the basic
front design at the moment.

--- In , "Janet Trimbath"
<forevere@...> wrote:
>
> Is your plan to reproduce the portraits as photographs of the
portraits or
> to re-draw the portraits on the cards?
>
> What kind of card backs will you have? White roses?
>
>
>
> L.M.L.,
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>

hello blackprussian
while designing your cards you may want to consider the significance of the meaning of each of the suits of cards.
 
hearts are concerned all forms of affection, from love to friendship and family ties.
hearts are equal to cups in the tarot deck
 
diamonds relates to material world and travel, business and connections.
diamonds are coins or pentacles in tarot
 
clubs indicate power, fame, abilities and wealth
clubs are called wands in tarot
 
spades connects with misfortune, loss, treachery, mourning, enemies and betrayal.
spades are swords in tarot.
----
each suit of cards also indicates the physical features of an individual.
hearts indicate fair skinned, fair haired, blue eyed people 
 
diamonds are fair haired, fair skinned, green/hazel eyed people
 
clubs are fair to olive skinned, darker haired,  blue/green/hazel eyed people
 
spades are dark skinned, dark haired, dark eyed people
===
 
have you decided on the aces? may i suggest the clergy. the pope believed he was above royalty/peers. the nobles could/would easily execute one of their own, but would double consider doing in a lord spiritual.
 
either catherine valois or margaret d'anjou brought playing/tarot cards to england.
 
i've not heard of WOTR playing cards before. i think it is a marvelous idea. please make morton the ace of spades. he's as about as evil as they can get. buckingham belongs in this suit too.
 
in tarot you have four ranks of cards..king, queen, knight and page. playing cards were derived from tarot cards.
 
tarot is divided into the minor and major arcana. 56 minor and 20 of the major.
given the number of individuals and events connected with the WOTR you may want to consider a designing a tarot deck. visit www.facade.com to see the types of decks already available.
 
i think you could have a market there, plus you can break down the tarot cards once designed/designated into playing cards and double your market.
 
much success with your endeavor.
roslyn


--- On Sun, 7/13/08, theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...>
Subject: WOTR playing cards
To:
Received: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 4:18 PM






I've been toying with the idea of a set of playing cards featuring
Wars of the Roses personalities, and was wondering if anyone knows if
such a deck already exists?

This would feature the appropriate Royalty as the picture cards, with
leading nobles as the lower values.

I'm thinking of portraits for the Kings, Queens and Jacks, with
heraldic shields for the nobles as very few portraits exist for these
anyway.

Initial suggestion for higher cards:

Hearts:
K - Henry VI
Q - Margaret of Anjou
J - Edward P of Wales
A - Duke of Somerset?

Diamonds:
K - Henry VII
Q - Margaret Beaufort?
J - Jasper Tudor?
A - Earl of Oxford

Spades:
K - Edward IV
Q - Elizabeth Woodville
J - Edward V
A - Earl of Warwick?

Clubs
K - Richard III
Q - Anne Neville
J - George of Clarence
A - Duke of Norfolk (Howard)

Jokers:
Lambert Simnell
Perkin Warbeck

Does anyone know if there are reliable portraits of Clarence of
Jasper Tudor?

try here for clarence and possible others on your wishlist
http://www.william1.co.uk/pg1.htm
 
the home page..

Created by Alan Freer A.C.I.B.

Member of the Society of Genealogists, London
http://www.william1.co.uk/
 
roslyn
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...>
Subject: WOTR playing cards
To:
Received: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 4:18 PM






I've been toying with the idea of a set of playing cards featuring
Wars of the Roses personalities, and was wondering if anyone knows if
such a deck already exists?

This would feature the appropriate Royalty as the picture cards, with
leading nobles as the lower values.

I'm thinking of portraits for the Kings, Queens and Jacks, with
heraldic shields for the nobles as very few portraits exist for these
anyway.

Initial suggestion for higher cards:

Hearts:
K - Henry VI
Q - Margaret of Anjou
J - Edward P of Wales
A - Duke of Somerset?

Diamonds:
K - Henry VII
Q - Margaret Beaufort?
J - Jasper Tudor?
A - Earl of Oxford

Spades:
K - Edward IV
Q - Elizabeth Woodville
J - Edward V
A - Earl of Warwick?

Clubs
K - Richard III
Q - Anne Neville
J - George of Clarence
A - Duke of Norfolk (Howard)

Jokers:
Lambert Simnell
Perkin Warbeck

Does anyone know if there are reliable portraits of Clarence of
Jasper Tudor?

here's another place you may be able to find your face cards british library manuscript catalogue. this item lists brass rubbings of assorted ranks of people from the 14th to 18thC
Full description




Search for: Add. 32490 D 1


32,490. RUBBINGS of sepulchral brasses, collected by the Rev. Henry
Addington; chronologically arranged (but not strictly) under ranks
of Ecclesiastics, Knights and Esquires in armour, Ladies, and
Civilians or persons in civil dress, in one or more series in the
several centuries. Fifty-four volumes, numbered as follows:-

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/manuscripts/HITS0001.ASP?VPath=html/25440.htm&Search=Add.+32490+D+1&Highlight=F

--- On Wed, 7/16/08, theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...>
Subject: Re: WOTR playing cards
To:
Received: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 11:06 AM






I don't have the skills to redraw the pics, the problem is finding
the 12 authentic portraits I need.

Open to suggestions for the card backs as I'm thinking of the basic
front design at the moment.

--- In richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com, "Janet Trimbath"
<forevere@.. .> wrote:
>
> Is your plan to reproduce the portraits as photographs of the
portraits or
> to re-draw the portraits on the cards?
>
> What kind of card backs will you have? White roses?
>
>
>
> L.M.L.,
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>

That looks like great site. I did not actually sign up for it, but the
descriptions sound good. I wonder if we have any artists in our group who
could render likenesses from the portraits.

Perhaps this could get to be a group project!! :-) Don't mean to "butt in"
however, this has caught my fancy. I would definitely want a deck once they
are finished!!!!!!

I loved the post from fayrerose with the meanings of the suits. You
learn something every day :-)

L.M.L.,

Janet

History of playing cards and who was represented in different decks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_cards

This site has a list of playing cards that have been invented.
http://members.aol.com/rslancastr/blgupc/blgupc.htm


Dee


 --- On Mon, 7/14/08, Janet Trimbath <forevere@...> wrote:

From: Janet Trimbath <forevere@...>
Subject: Re:WOTR playing cards
To:
Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 3:55 AM

By the way, I have heard that the Queen of Hearts was originally modeled
after Elizabeth Woodville.



L.M.L.,

Janet

Thank you, Dee! What a beautiful site. The Russian card deck evokes
medieval themes to me.



This site has a list of playing cards that have been invented.
<http://members.aol.com/rslancastr/blgupc/blgupc.htm>
http://members.aol.com/rslancastr/blgupc/blgupc.htm



This just shows you what could be done with enough time and talent.



L.M.L.,

Janet

Someone eviently had the idea before...

http://www.collectorsplayingcards.co.uk/cardsale_nonStd.htm

(scroll down and click the link 661)

Doesn't idicate if the non-Kings are based on individual people.

Interesting to note that Richard is the only male not sporting an
(anachronistic) beard. Wonder why...


--- In , Vixis The Klingon
Witch <klingonwitch@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> History of playing cards and who was represented in different decks.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_cards
>
> This site has a list of playing cards that have been invented.
> http://members.aol.com/rslancastr/blgupc/blgupc.htm
>
>
> Dee
>
>
>  --- On Mon, 7/14/08, Janet Trimbath <forevere@...> wrote:
>
> From: Janet Trimbath <forevere@...>
> Subject: Re:WOTR playing cards
> To:
> Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 3:55 AM
>
> By the way, I have heard that the Queen of Hearts was originally
modeled
> after Elizabeth Woodville.
>
>
>
> L.M.L.,
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

those cards are just plain ugly. unappealing cartoons.
what you've described seems significantly more appealing.
 
i found an interesting drawing of george duke of clarence. i don't know from what era, but i can sure see a family resemblence to e4. i have not fully looked at the book to determine where the publisher acquired the graphic. i.e. whose collection, where located, etc.
 
george duke of clarence, illustration, possible woodcut.
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=jkkTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA15&dq=%22duke+of+clarence%22+george&as_brr=1

--- On Sat, 7/19/08, theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

From: theblackprussian <theblackprussian@...>
Subject: Re:WOTR playing cards
To:
Received: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 5:02 PM






Someone eviently had the idea before...

http://www.collecto rsplayingcards. co.uk/cardsale_ nonStd.htm

(scroll down and click the link 661)

Doesn't idicate if the non-Kings are based on individual people.

Interesting to note that Richard is the only male not sporting an
(anachronistic) beard. Wonder why...

--- In richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com, Vixis The Klingon
Witch <klingonwitch@ ...> wrote:
>
>
>
> History of playing cards and who was represented in different decks.
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Playing_cards
>
> This site has a list of playing cards that have been invented.
> http://members. aol.com/rslancas tr/blgupc/ blgupc.htm
>
>
> Dee
>
>
>  --- On Mon, 7/14/08, Janet Trimbath <forevere@.. .> wrote:
>
> From: Janet Trimbath <forevere@.. .>
> Subject: Re:WOTR playing cards
> To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 3:55 AM
>
> By the way, I have heard that the Queen of Hearts was originally
modeled
> after Elizabeth Woodville.
>
>
>
> L.M.L.,
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>